we all know LBJ is the best player in the world but...

[blackzeus]

All this time and effort and still a MAJOR fail.

"For the most part they've been neck and neck"

Which really means Bron was better but Kobe wasn't far behind.

The only year Kobe was better according to those numbers was 06 (which was really 06-07). In the real 06 (05-06) when Bean averaged 35, Bron averaged 31 but with 2 more assists, which means 2 more buckets for his team which means they were responsible for the same amount of points that year.

Then you mention different roles which hurts your case even more. If Bron was the facilitator and Kobe was the finisher, why was the facilitator averaging more points and still facilitating?

Thank you, good sir. Team Bron appreciates your assistance.

Lebron averaging more assists because he is bringing the ball up the court and/or running the point on damn near every play!

Let's see:

Player A: Always has the ball, gets to choose whether to pass or dribble, holds the ball perhaps about 80% of the time on his teams offensive positions

Player B: Comes off screens, or gets the ball in position from somebody else, is quickly double teamed, and must shoot, or do some crazy shake and bake move to get open because his team's offensive movement is pretty sh*tty.

Wait, you mean player A scores more points and has more assists?

How many times have I seen Fisher up top not throw the ball into Kobe because he wasn't open, or the passing angle wasn't right? That doesn't happen to Lebron because he always has the balls in his hands!

Lebron has a better FG% primarily because he doesn't take jumpshots. Why do you say? was it because he magically saw a better opportunity (), or because he had no jumper? What happened at the "meaningless" exhibition game last year when Kobe dared Lebron to shoot? How many times have we seen 'Bron pass up an open shot? Why can't Lebron go for 60 on any given night? Perhaps it's because he's such a distributor, or is it really because you can't score in that range without having a decent jumper?

When Kobe was average 25, Gasol and Bynum were having career years. When Kobe had a garbage squad, he was over 30 points per game. Lebron's average will come down to about 25-27 per game after a few more years with this crew.

 

[Gravity]

Lebron goes to the rack EVERYTIME.

Tonight, go to the court. Take 10 jump shots. Then take 10 layups. Report back to the Coli tomorrow with your results

Are you incapable of making a point without straight up lying?

Lebron doesn't go to the rack every time, but even if he did then the fact that he could be successful at getting to the rack for layups at will would still make him a better player than Kobe. Kobe doesn't go to the rack as much as Lebron because he can't. What's so hard to understand?

 

[boskey]

a 6"8 behomoth who can run over half the league

Lebron goes to the rack EVERYTIME.

Lebron averaging more assists because he is bringing the ball up the court and/or running the point on damn near every play!

Kobe stans talkin about Bron like he's Big Foot or something. A 6'8" behemoth who runs point and takes it to the rack...not bad at all.

 

[╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮]

This is when...

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I find it hilarious that Kobe stans are still trying to debate this. Bron has been The King for at least 5 years, if not more. Either way, that's more than half his career.

Yall nikkas can't be serious.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

LeBron is a more efficient scorer, better rebounder, better facilitator, better defender...

The only things Kobe has on LeBron is FT shooting and circumstance.

 

[blackzeus]

You listing point, assist and rebound averages alone without taking into account how they scored them is really, really misleading. For the career, LeBron laps Kobe in PER, TS%, eFG% and FG%. Those all take into account ft shooting, fg shooting and 3pt shooting more accurately than you saying 'take away a 3 pt shot and theire FG% is not much different'.

Kobe's decision to take more 3's and LeBron's decision to take more shots in the paint isn't just as simple as 'If we take away that 3 point attempt than it's close...'. NO. That's why Lebron is so much more efficient, because his shot selection is better.

Besides that, all of your point are even more faulty and misleading.

A) Saves team USA in the Olympics is taking the final quarter of the final game and ignoring the totality of the Olympics and what it took to get there.

B) All Star game MVP's aren't notable trophy's. It's a meaningless exhibiton game. And saying they have the same amount of All star game selections is very broad and has nothing to do with the individual comparison. Bosh and Melo have those All star games in the same span too.

C) Clutchness. Don't start. Over the course of his career LeBron has comparable percentages in the last five minutes of close games and they have both proven they can lead teams to titles.

D) LeBron went to a team with a guaranteed HOF and perennial All star. that is true. But Kobe demanded a trade shortly after he didn't have the most dominant player of his generation, and then calmed down after he got Gasol, Bynum and Odom. Players historically do what they can to put themselves in a winning situation and the ones who don't leave never had to, for the most part.

E) Comparing titles isn't fair. It's a team game.

I would have understood your point more if you painted a complete picture of them and compared them individually by taking efficiency into account to gowith the averages.

But you subjectively said 'if we take away a 3 its not that different', which is a fictional hypothetical, and then counted awards without context (All star games, 1st teams) and the unprovable intangible part.

A) Team USA doesn't agree with you, why should I? They will tell you thank God Kobe was there.

B) All Stars are the best in their group. While the game may be not as meaningful as the selection or an NBA final per se, I can't see how being voted one of the best players in the NBA at your position is meaningless, and how playing the best game among your peers is meaningless

C) Go into any barbershop, sports bar, arena, anywhere where there are hardcore NBA fans, and say this stupid sh*t, and let me know the reaction This nikka said Lebron is as clutch as Kobe, I've done seen it all, and this will probably be my last post in this thread

D) Lamar's been with the Lakers since '04, so you're a f*cking retard. Kobe wanted to get Jason Kidd instead of drafting Bynum, so you're definitely an idiot, and Kobe signed a 7 year deal in '04, and Gasol joined the team in '07, so I really have no other words to describe your ridiculous posts, 3 years is not "shortly after".

E) Titles and time are not the ultimate factor, but you cannot exclude titles from the conversation. Would you call a player who average 35 ppg, 8 apg, and 8 rpg for 7 seasons and won one title the GOAT? Probably not. Kobe has won 5 of 7 finals appearances, and basically has been to the finals half of his NBA career, COMING OUT OF THE WEST

Kobe takes more 3's because he can make 'em, Lebron takes less because he can't. Anyway, f*ck it, you win, I'm done with this thread.

 

[YBE]

Lebron averaging more assists because he is bringing the ball up the court and/or running the point on damn near every play!

Let's see:

Player A: Always has the ball, gets to choose whether to pass or dribble, holds the ball perhaps about 80% of the time on his teams offensive positions

Player B: Comes off screens, or gets the ball in position from somebody else, is quickly double teamed, and must shoot, or do some crazy shake and bake move to get open because his team's offensive movement is pretty sh*tty.

Wait, you mean player A scores more points and has more assists?

How many times have I seen Fisher up top not throw the ball into Kobe because he wasn't open, or the passing angle wasn't right? That doesn't happen to Lebron because he always has the balls in his hands!

Lebron has a better FG% primarily because he doesn't take jumpshots. Why do you say? was it because he magically saw a better opportunity (), or because he had no jumper? What happened at the "meaningless" exhibition game last year when Kobe dared Lebron to shoot? How many times have we seen 'Bron pass up an open shot? Why can't Lebron go for 60 on any given night? Perhaps it's because he's such a distributor, or is it really because you can't score in that range without having a decent jumper?

When Kobe was average 25, Gasol and Bynum were having career years. When Kobe had a garbage squad, he was over 30 points per game. Lebron's average will come down to about 25-27 per game after a few more years with this crew.

this will get avoided...

Are you incapable of making a point without straight up lying?

Lebron doesn't go to the rack every time, but even if he did then the fact that he could be successful at getting to the rack for layups at will would make him a better player than Kobe. Kobe doesn't go to the rack as much as Lebton because he can't. What's so hard to understand?

Lebron James

2007: 6.9 attempts at rim
2008: 8.0 attempts at rim
2009: 6.6 attempts at rim
2010: 6.8 attempts at rim
2011: 5.9 attempts at rim
2012: 6.6 attempts at rim

Don't care what you're talking about


at 8 attempts at rim on 20 shots a game. 30-45% of Lebron's offense comes from layups.

 

[Gravity]

this will get avoided...



Lebron James

2007: 6.9 attempts at rim
2008: 8.0 attempts at rim
2009: 6.6 attempts at rim
2010: 6.8 attempts at rim
2011: 5.9 attempts at rim
2012: 6.6 attempts at rim

Don't care what you're talking about


at 8 attempts at rim on 20 shots a game. 30-45% of Lebron's offense comes from layups.

Again, so what? If Kobe could get to the cup with the same frequency then he would, he doesnt because he can't. Lebron's ability to get better shots than Kobe is one of the reasons that he's a better player. The fact that he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does is also a testament to him being a better player. Kobe isn't the playmaker or distributor that Lebron is, and that's why he's not asked to run point guard. Obviously Lebron having the ball in his hands more is why he gets more assists.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Again, so what? If Kobe could get to the cup with the same frequency then he would, he doesnt because he can't. Lebron's ability to get better shots than Kobe is one of the reasons that he's a better player. The fact that he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does is also a testament to him being a better player. Kobe isn't the playmaker or distributor that Lebron is, and that's why he's not asked to run point guard. Obviously Lebron having the ball in his hands more is why he gets more assists.

They have no evidence that Kobe is better. They only have evidence as to why LeBron is better. Then try to use that against him.

 

[YBE]

Again, so what? If Kobe could get to the cup with the same frequency then he would, he doesnt because he can't. Lebron's ability to get better shots than Kobe is one of the reasons that he's a better player. The fact that he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does is also a testament to him being a better player. Kobe isn't the playmaker or distributor that Lebron is, and that's why he's not asked to run point guard. Obviously Lebron having the ball in his hands more is why he gets more assists.

Wrong. Even when Kobe had legs, he just didn't drive as often as Bron. He's a jump shooter. My point from jump was comparing fg%'s between someone who drives 6-8 times a game vs someone who mostly shoots jumpers is stupid. I'd readily agree with you if you said KD was more efficient because he plays Kobe's style of game & is better at it. You said I was full of shyt about Bron. A quick inquiry on Hoopdata can show you Bron takes more shot attempts at rim than most Centers/Power Forwards


Let it go nikka. You lost.

 

[Gravity]

Wrong. Even when Kobe had legs, he just didn't drive as often as Bron. He's a jump shooter. My point from jump was comparing fg%'s between someone who drives 6-8 times a game vs someone who mostly shoots jumpers is stupid. I'd readily agree with you if you said KD was more efficient because he plays Kobe's style of game & is better at it. You said I was full of shyt about Bron. A quick inquiry on Hoopdata can show you Bron takes more shot attempts at rim than most Centers/Power Forwards


Let it go nikka. You lost.

You are full of it. Saying that Lebron goes to the rack everytime isnt true, its a lie. Maybe you're just dense so I'll try to explain again. Kobe doesn't drive as much as Lebron because he's not as good at driving. He takes more jumpshots than Lebron does because he's not as good going to the cup. There's no way around comparing fg% between 2 players when debating who's better. FG% isn't the only reason that Lebron is better than Kobe, it's just one of the reasons.

 

[blackzeus]

Again, so what? If Kobe could get to the cup with the same frequency then he would, he doesnt because he can't. Lebron's ability to get better shots than Kobe is one of the reasons that he's a better player. The fact that he has the ball in his hands more than Kobe does is also a testament to him being a better player. Kobe isn't the playmaker or distributor that Lebron is, and that's why he's not asked to run point guard. Obviously Lebron having the ball in his hands more is why he gets more assists.

I'll respond to you because you're posting some decent reasons at least. However, Kobe can be Lebron if he wants to, he got 15 rebounds in the last game for his championship. Lebron could never be Kobe, you'll never see Lebron score 81 or 60 in 3 quarters, unless nobody else takes a shot, you'll never see Lebron dominate from the post. Kobe was in the triangle offense, handling the ball had more to do with Phil Jackson, not Kobe's ability. MJ clashed with Phil for the very same reason, because he wanted the ball in his hands more. Lebron from day one was given the ball, surrounded by jumpshooters, and told to drive, if you don't get the foul, kick it out. His game is VERY basic. Kobe is Picasso, 'Bron is a kid flicking paint on a canvas to see what happens. And in today's NBA where a hand check is a foul, good luck stopping a charging bull I don't see that as an ability to get better shots, I see it a lack of options. Let's what happens with OKC next year or Laker's if they get Dwight, guarantee Bron won't have a free run to the lane, we'll see if his post game has evolved

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I'll respond to you because you're posting some decent reasons at least. However, Kobe can be Lebron if he wants to, he got 15 rebounds in the last game for his championship. Lebron could never be Kobe, you'll never see Lebron score 81 or 60 in 3 quarters, unless nobody else takes a shot, you'll never see Lebron dominate from the post. Kobe was in the triangle offense, handling the ball had more to do with Phil Jackson, not Kobe's ability. MJ clashed with Phil for the very same reason, because he wanted the ball in his hands more. Lebron from day one was given the ball, surrounded by jumpshooters, and told to drive, if you don't get the foul, kick it out. His game is VERY basic. Kobe is Picasso, 'Bron is a kid flicking paint on a canvas to see what happens. And in today's NBA where a hand check is a foul, good luck stopping a charging bull I don't see that as an ability to get better shots, I see it a lack of options. Let's what happens with OKC next year or Laker's if they get Dwight, guarantee Bron won't have a free run to the lane, we'll see if his post game has evolved

"Kobe can be LeBron if he wants to" because he had ONE 15 board game over 2 years ago?

"Kobe is Picasso and Bron is a kid flicking paint" yet Bron still scores more. That would make Bron a fukking prodigy wouldn't it? He's just flicking paint and making better masterpieces than Picasso.

"Let's see what happens IF the Lakers get Dwight"

By FAR the funniest post I've read in the coli.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Didn't even realize it was the groupie who posted that.

"K-O-B-E... gooooooo Kobe!"