upward mobility is a "myth"?

[DEAD7]

No study is perfect, unless it includes every person in the world and has no error. Again, your example is irrelevant because its an outlier. If there are 100 Will Smiths out of 300 million people they are not going to skew things one way or another significantly. Bottom line, upward mobility is on a downward trend in the US.

will smith wasnt the point, its about worth being exempt, and my entire point was that there should be a grain of salt taken... why is cant you just say "sure"?

...and for the record, I never said mobility was alive and well.
I just agree with the below quote

But social mobility — the opportunity to move up — cannot be measured solely by how much movement takes place.

and I think his point about how well asians do is worth serious consideration.

I think the argument is that upward mobility is becoming more difficult for everybody, however every demographic is not affected in the same way. It would be interesting to see rates of upward mobility over the last 30 years broken down by race/ethnicity.

^ This is pretty much where I am on the issue. Saying mobility is dead or near dead seems inaccurate, saying its near dead for blacks however may be closer to the truth.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

will smith wasnt the point, its about worth being exempt, and my entire point was that there should be a grain of salt taken... why is cant you just say "sure"?

...and for the record, I never said mobility was alive and well.
I just agree with the below quote
and I think his point about how well asians do is worth serious consideration.


^ This is pretty much where I am on the issue. Saying mobility is dead or near dead seems inaccurate, saying its near dead for blacks however may be closer to the truth.

Asians are the exception.... most Americans don't have access to upward mobility

 

[nineteeneightysix]

i dont disregard it. I'm a lot mor eopen than you think, and have admitted to being wrong on several occasions...
Let me try to explain. When you look at brackets, your looking at people, but in a snap shot. The flesh and blood people in the bottom 20% or top 10% may not be the same from year to year, even though the bracket stays the same.
If your in the lower bracket, and move to the upper bracket, and some on else take your place in the lower bracket, the data will not reflect this, it will reflect that there has been no change and no mobility.And thats on top of it not accounting for wealth and timing.
If Will Smith took a year of and made zero dollars, absolutely nothing. The income statistics would place him in the bottom bracket Having made zero he'd be even lower than those on welfare, yet we all know he is rich...

Its not that Sowell said it, its that it checks out, statistics should be taken with a grain of salt cause most are bullshyt.

(1) But where is the evidence that demonstrates this...?
We need to see the study that ACTUALLY provided support for the phenomenon that you describing...Some things sound "logical" when you say and think about them, but when you look at the evidence, you get something different...

(2) Just like somebody can move up, somebody can move down...So what is the rate of people moving down vs people moving up, so we can calculate a net effect...?

(3) A study can easily be conducted to take into account the "Will Smith" effect that you described...All one would have to do is measure wealth rather than yearly income...

 

[Hydroking23]

 

[bigDeeOT]

I think upward mobility for blacks is entirely fanciful and indeed a myth.

Within the black community we do not value honor (group economics), education, or learning valuable skills people are willing to pay for. Most of us are deluded by get rich quick dreams sold to us by role models like Lil Wayne and Jay-Z.

As of now I don't see any momentum in the black community towards reversing this degenerate culture so I'm afraid we are doomed to be the laughing stock of the entire world. Our only hope is to successfully influence the next generation. They need us more than anything.

 

[bigDeeOT]

Asians are the exception.... most Americans don't have access to upward mobility

Why are Asians the exception? What is it that allows Asians access to upward mobility but not blacks?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Why are Asians the exception? What is it that allows Asians access to upward mobility but not blacks?

A lot of things. Theres the resume effect, for starters. People are way more eager to look at an Asian candidate than a black one and there are studies that show this. Most important one though is a lot of if not most Asians come here with wealth. Even the not rich ones. That goes a long way. There are also some cultural factors. Asians have a much better support system than American blacks, and since they don't have much beef with the American system they are way more willing to trust in it and utilize it. Many of em cheat hardbody as well. So there are a lot of factors. For the most part, brown/black people are at a systematic disadvantage to whites and Asians in the American system.

 

[duckbutta]

There is no such thing as upward mobility...there is only how much you are willing to get screwed, because if you are willing to get screwed ( on pay, on benefits, on treatment ) then you will always find someone willing to give you a chance because they come out ahead of the game ( by paying you less money, by giving you no benefits, by making you work odd hours ). Foreigners coming to the US are much more likely to allow themselves to be taken advantage of because...will they have no choice, either they work, go to school, hide out, or get shipped back home...

People always like to talk about that African guy who came here with nothing and pulled himself up and now he owns something...but what people don't talk about is how for 3 years that African guy got ripped off because he was getting paid pennies on the dollar for driving that cab, and when it was time to expand, will fukk he was the one who got his own shop because everyone else wouldn't even work there, the pay was to bad...

And trust me, their are plenty of foreigners who come here and never amount to anything at alll...how is it that all these articles make it seem like just anybody can come to america, work hard, and get rich...

Scust at this BS

 

[bigDeeOT]

A lot of things. Theres the resume effect, for starters. People are way more eager to look at an Asian candidate than a black one and there are studies that show this. Most important one though is a lot of if not most Asians come here with wealth. Even the not rich ones. That goes a long way. There are also some cultural factors. Asians have a much better support system than American blacks, and since they don't have much beef with the American system they are way more willing to trust in it and utilize it. Many of em cheat hardbody as well. So there are a lot of factors. For the most part, brown/black people are at a systematic disadvantage to whites and Asians in the American system.

The resume effect is partly the cause of black people themselves. Blacks tend to slack in the workplace more so than others. They show up late, get attitudes with customers, and don't work as hard as others. This is a generalization of course, and I would say that most blacks ARE good workers, but the percentage of blacks that slack in the workplace is higher than the percentage of whites and Mexicans that slack in the work place. Too many blacks are unemployable because in the black community we applaud breaking social conventions aka "the white man's way."


There are far too many Asian families that come here with nothing and end up going to college to be doctors and lawyers and engineers. Look at the top universities. How the hell is it that Berkley and standford have like 40% Asians, and yet Asians only represent 5% of the population. That is a GROSS overrepresentation. White people have all the money in this country and yet they are underrepresented in ivy league universities. CLEARLY, money is not the primary issue. It is a factor, but not anywhere near as big of a factor as the attitudes stemming from within a culture.

Its also absurd that you say Asians have an advantage because they trust the system. Well then the obvious conclusion is for blacks to trust the system and follow the path to success that Asians have. Or do you think crying about the legacy of slavery and distrusting the system is honestly getting us anywhere?

As I said before, the future for black America is very bleek. The vast majority of blacks think like you do. They refuse to purge from the black community the attitudes that leave us stagnent in the world economy. As long as you refuse to criticize black degenerate culture we will always be the laughing stock of the world!

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

The resume effect is partly the cause of black people themselves. Blacks tend to slack in the workplace more so than others. They show up late, get attitudes with customers, and don't work as hard as others. This is a generalization of course

 

[DonFrancisco]

-Thomas Sowell

I hate to say this, just from first hand experience, those people from Korea, Vietnam, China, Pakistan, Nigeria, etc. were already middle-class or headed too middle-class status in their respective nations. Being middle-class across the globe is surprisingly not that dissimilar. The obvious road to middle-class in most of the world is AT LEAST a 4 year degree from a state or an accredited educational institute. I respect Thomas Sowell but in this case he's missing a glaring piece of social science. I only say this because my parents both have college degrees before they came to this country, from day 1 I was drilled to go to read, write, do math, and go to college. A lot of my peoples growing up didn't have that reinforcement for parents. In fact many parents would discourage college in favor of work or having a family at 20. Poverty isn't something easily overcome, it is systemic and cultural.

 

[Insensitive]

Well he's making progress that's the first time I've seen him actually admitting
to making a generalization
Before that he argued vehemently that blacks are sloths personified.

On topic :
When it comes to upward mobility.
I've seen more evidence to the contrary than I have that
suggests it's a possibility for most Americans

 

[Kritic]

http://www.hangthebankers.com/jpmorgan-ceo-jamie-dimon-gets-74-payrise-to-20-million/

 

[*L*E*G*A*C*Y*]

subs

 

[Serious]

I think upward mobility for blacks is entirely fanciful and indeed a myth.

Within the black community we do not value honor (group economics), education, or learning valuable skills people are willing to pay for. Most of us are deluded by get rich quick dreams sold to us by role models like Lil Wayne and Jay-Z.

As of now I don't see any momentum in the black community towards reversing this degenerate culture so I'm afraid we are doomed to be the laughing stock of the entire world. Our only hope is to successfully influence the next generation. They need us more than anything.

I remember thinking like this when I was 18-19....

Kind of reminds me of @Eric Blair