Two Titles - UFC 187: Johnson vs Cormier & Weidman vs Belfort Thread [May 23]
- Thread starter The Infamous
- Start date
Mousasi has no chance in hell against Weidman. Hes honestly never fared well against elite. I dont see it with Rockhold. He has no advantage outside kickboxing, which we just saw in the DC/Rumble fight that high volume kicks aren't smart against wrestlers.. I don't care if he just smashed Machida. Its pretty clear Machida doesn't have the strengh or speed advanage he had at 205. Only dude I see who can really beat Weidman is Jacare. Hes fast, atheletic, has good boxing(ableit predictable) has power in his right. Won't be completely over matched on the ground.
The Infamous
Superstar
Was that fight sloppy at times? Yes, but it was action-packed and provided an exciting finish. I'd rather watch a very exciting, but at times sloppy fight than a highly technical sparring match.
If that's how you feel, then don't watch the sport.
He did hip escape, but gave up his back in the process. Then Weidman transitioned back to the mount.
The Infamous
Superstar
No disrespect to Cormier, but we know who the true LHW champion is:
Was that fight sloppy at times? Yes, but it was action-packed and provided an exciting finish. I'd rather watch a very exciting, but at times sloppy fight than a highly technical sparring match.
If that's how you feel, then don't watch the sport.
He did hip escape, but gave up his back in the process. Then Weidman transitioned back to the mount.
Nope, I'll do whatever the hell I want with my time
.I enjoy MMA, but I wish the standup in higher level fights wasn't so frequently amateurish. You talk as if technical, composed striking and exciting action packed finishes are mutually exclusive. Golovkin is a brilliant boxer, but also always brings fire. It makes me appreciate Anderson Silva and Lyoto when they were on top so much more to see these kind of fights. Thankfully there's still Aldo, Cowboy and Connor.
You're right, he hip escaped (viewed it again), but there's no denying he looked really awful down there. It's strange to see a seasoned BJJ veteran put on that kind of performance.
The Infamous
Superstar
Nope, I'll do whatever the hell I want with my time
I enjoy MMA, but I wish the standup in higher level fights wasn't so frequently amateurish. You talk as if technical, composed striking and exciting action packed finishes are mutually exclusive. Golovkin is a brilliant boxer, but also always brings fire. It makes me appreciate Anderson Silva and Lyoto when they were on top so much more to see these kind of fights. Thankfully there's still Aldo, Cowboy and Connor.
You're right, he hip escaped (viewed it again), but there's no denying he looked really awful down there. It's strange to see a seasoned BJJ veteran put on that kind of performance.
In comparison to professional boxers/kickboxers you could say their striking looks amateurish. But that's not a fair comparison to make.
It makes sense as to why the striking in MMA isn't up to par with the grappling (BJJ & wrestling). If you're an elite striker, you're either going to go into boxing or kickboxing. But if you're a high level grappler, you're going to go into MMA.
I never said they were mutually exclusive. There are a lot of elite strikers (in boxing and kickboxing) who are very technical, but also very exciting. But, there's also a lot high level boxers who are very technical, but go in there to score points and just put on a sparring match rather than a fight.
When a fight is action packed, you can look past some of the sloppiness. And that fight wasn't as sloppy as you're making it out to be.
And we have Pettis, Barboza, Alvarez, Edgar, DJ, Dillashaw, Condit, & Mendes who are all great strikers.
Weidman is a beast on the mat. He could make a lot of fighters in the division look lost on the ground. From what I remember, Anderson had trouble controlling Weidman's posture and he got hurt pretty bad with GnP.
You could watch whatever you want. But based on the comment you made earlier, it doesn't really seem like you enjoy watching the sport. So then, why watch?
DaveyDave
Superstar
Vitor obviously didn't respect Weidmans ground game or at the very least he was lazy with his own thinking he could power out of it. Letting him get the mount was the dumbest thing I've seen for a long time for a vet like Vitor. Even if he was a fraudulent black belt he has been in the game long enough to know thatyou don't let someone get the mount so easily.
None of this is new to me, I'm a long time fan and agree with all of it, I was just saying I wish coaches would instruct these guys to not do what Weidman did in that gif (what was he even attempting anyway, he looked completely out of control). No question it's easier said than done, but I hate seeing bar room technique in high level matchups, particularly title fights (one reason I'll always remain an Anderson Silva fan).
The Infamous
Superstar
That was just one part of the fight, which wasn't even that bad. I think you're putting too much emphasis on that sloppy exchange rather than looking at the fight as a whole. Just my opinion.
Gus gets a title shot if he beats Johnson? Nah....he got stopped in like 2 minutes against Johnson the first time around. Gus need at least 2 good wins in a row. And my problem w/ Weidman isn't mostly the "he beats ppl past their primes" theory.....it's the "what ifs" he's been involved with in all these fights.:
What if Anderson wasn't fooling around so much in the ring w/ Wiedman the first time around?
What if the knockout from the 1st fight(which resulted from the fooling around) is the reason why Anderson couldn't absorb the punch that dropped him in the second fight?
What if Anderson's leg didn't shatter on a check which, although it's a technique, pretty much NEVER ends a fight?
What if Machida fought aggressively from the very beginning of their fight instead of arguably giving rounds away?
The "past his prime" comment works only for Vitor who CLEARLY looked different from his TRT run where he became the first man to knock out DAN FUKKING HENDERSON...and was knocking out ppl all of a sudden with kicks....Vitor wasn't known for kick KOs....he was a completely different fighter physically when he using that stuff. His hands didn't even look as fast Saturday night when he was teeing off on Weidman.
Just beat Jacare or Rockhold...the 2 great fighters in the division...and i'll give him credit.
What if Anderson wasn't fooling around so much in the ring w/ Wiedman the first time around?
What if the knockout from the 1st fight(which resulted from the fooling around) is the reason why Anderson couldn't absorb the punch that dropped him in the second fight?
What if Anderson's leg didn't shatter on a check which, although it's a technique, pretty much NEVER ends a fight?
What if Machida fought aggressively from the very beginning of their fight instead of arguably giving rounds away?
The "past his prime" comment works only for Vitor who CLEARLY looked different from his TRT run where he became the first man to knock out DAN FUKKING HENDERSON...and was knocking out ppl all of a sudden with kicks....Vitor wasn't known for kick KOs....he was a completely different fighter physically when he using that stuff. His hands didn't even look as fast Saturday night when he was teeing off on Weidman.
Just beat Jacare or Rockhold...the 2 great fighters in the division...and i'll give him credit.
Who did y'all have winning round 1, Rumble or Cormier? 
DaveyDave
Superstar
Once DC was able to get him down and control him it was over. If Rumble was able to get back up quicker or prevent the takedowns all together then he probably would have knocked him out or at least won on strikes IMO. He got tired so quickly because DC is such a great wrestler and took him down, grounded him out against the cage and made Rumble hold his weight. After he was fukked it was easier to beat him up on the ground, slice him up a bit which demoralises you further and then get the submission.Who did y'all have winning round 1, Rumble or Cormier?
LinusCaldwell
From The Eastside with Love
Honestly DC broke Johnson and it's unacceptable. Here is a quote before the fight from DC:
"want to tell you guys right now, at the end of the day, Anthony "Rumble" Johnson is who he is. ... Anthony’s the guy that got submitted by Josh Koscheck. Anthony’s the guy that tapped out before VitorBelfort had a choke in. At the core of him, he is who he is. I just have to go out and find that."
Straight questioned his heart. Once you get past Johnson's strikes does he really want to get hurt can he take punishment. Someone said Weidman didn't like to see his own blood? Well after the second round especially being there in person no one thought he was gonna get up. When he faced adversity in the ring he buckled. Unlike Jones he rose to the occasion. What really was
was right after the fight Johnson puts on the belt for DC and acts like he wasn't just in a fight at the press conference and didn't get dominated. He was very calm and didn't show any sign of disappointment. He totally flopped and forfeited a great opportunity. But he acted like it wasn't a big deal at all. 
Geez show some more heart breh. Cry do something to show you truly cared in the moment. That fight was as disappointing as the Uriah hall fight. It almost felt like he didn't wanna ko DC because he hesitated when he knocked DC down and he was very sloppy and overly eager after that first initial exchange. To me DC broke him and it had nothing to do with Johnson being tired that was on Johnson's heart.
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DaveyDave
Superstar
Honestly DC broke Johnson and is unacceptable. Here is a quote before the fight from DC:
"want to tell you guys right now, at the end of the day, Anthony "Rumble" Johnson is who he is. ... Anthony’s the guy that got submitted by Josh Koscheck. Anthony’s the guy that tapped out before VitorBelfort had a choke in. At the core of him, he is who he is. I just have to go out and find that."
Straight questioned his heart. Once you get past Johnson's strikes does he really want to get hurt can he take punishment. Someone said Weidman didn't like to see his own blood? Well after the second round especially being there in person no one thought he was gonna get up. When he faced adversity in the ring he buckled. Unlike Jones he rose to the occasion. What really was
Geez show some more heart breh. Cry do something to show you truly cared in the moment. That fight was as disappointing as the Uriah hall fight. It almost felt like he didn't wanna ko DC because he hesitated when he knocked DC down and he was very sloppy and overly eager after that first initial exchange. To me DC broke him and it had nothing to do with Johnson being tired that was on Johnson's heart.
it's a bit of both, i think it's also down to Rumble getting Octagon jitters, it's his first title fight and the shake up from fighting Jones to fighting DC, they're very different styles. Rumble and those around him probably had too much confidence in his power and thought he would KO DC within the first round which he almost did, DC went fukkin flying across the cage when he got that first hit from Rumble. work on his cardio, work on his ability to grind it out, stdn up, TD defense and Rumble will probably beat DC if they meet again assuming DC keeps the belt long enough.
LinusCaldwell
From The Eastside with Love
But that stamina has always been his issue. And his tdd was as non existent as vitor's bjj
blackzillions are trash and cursed. That game plan you mentioned is exactly how you lose. Even Cormier in the embedded series mentioned that when he was in his MGM suite laying on the bed talking to his coach standing next to the door. They were ready for that. And DC fought heavy weights he can take a hit.