Top 10 NBA Player List: #9 of all-time

[Sccit]

There's no point with this hypothetical "if Kobe was on this team" etc. stuff

LeBron is a 3x Finals MVP and Kobe 2x.

How many of those Finals series do you think LeBron's team was the favourite? Only twice. So he's exceeded expectations.

Meanwhile Kobe's team was favourites in at least 5 of those, especially the series in which he played second fiddle to Shaq.

And in terms of pure skills, LeBron is a much more well rounded player. He's so much more valuable to a team for all he brings to the table.

The fact that he's only been favored twice is telling, isn't it? U think a Kobe led team would only be favored 2 out of 7 times? Be real here .. You think Lebron would take a team wit pau gasol as the second best player to win it all, let alone twice... In the western conference? We already know the answer to that .. When Cavs won, there was chatter about Kyrie shoulda been finals mvp .. Was there any talks bout pau shoulda been finals mvp when lakers won?? Cmon folks .. I know the Lebron diccriding is at an all time high wit him winnin and all .. But the entire forum was jus talkin bout how there was never a Lebron era, how we skipped from kobe to steph, how he's been washed up and keeps losing on the biggest stage, how he continues to get cakewalks to the finals cuz he plays in the east, how his game is ugly and he still doesn't have go to moves ..... And all of a sudden, the entire narrative does a 180 ..... Because he had 3 great games? 3 great games and 4 subpar ones.....but if steph don't choke, then we talkin bout how terrible Lebron is ..... Shiit jus don't make any logical sense. If prime Kobe was facing these warriors and steph was playin like that, u KNOWWW that's a sweep... Brodie. Tell me u know that.....I know most the casuals won't get it, but cmon now, let's keep it all the way all the way.

 

[Quiet Magician]

The fact that he's only been favored twice is telling, isn't it? U think a Kobe led team would only be favored 2 out of 7 times? Be real here .. You think Lebron would take a team wit pau gasol as the second best player to win it all, let alone twice... In the western conference? We already know the answer to that .. When Cavs won, there was chatter about Kyrie shoulda been finals mvp .. Was there any talks bout pau shoulda been finals mvp when lakers won?? Cmon folks .. I know the Lebron diccriding is at an all time high wit him winnin and all .. But the entire forum was jus talkin bout how there was never a Lebron era, how we skipped from kobe to steph, how he's been washed up and keeps losing on the biggest stage, how he continues to get cakewalks to the finals cuz he plays in the east, how his game is ugly and he still doesn't have go to moves ..... And all of a sudden, the entire narrative does a 180 ..... Because he had 3 great games? 3 great games and 4 subpar ones.....but if steph don't choke, then we talkin bout how terrible Lebron is ..... Shiit jus don't make any logical sense. If prime Kobe was facing these warriors and steph was playin like that, u KNOWWW that's a sweep... Brodie. Tell me u know that.....I know most the casuals won't get it, but cmon now, let's keep it all the way all the way.

The logic of Kobe stans.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

The fact that he's only been favored twice is telling, isn't it? U think a Kobe led team would only be favored 2 out of 7 times? Be real here ..

What this tells me is that LeBron has had a far worse supporting cast, at least if we look at Golden State 2015 and to some extent 2016 and for sure his first Finals in 2007. I would never say his Heat teams had a bad cast all around, but even in those series because of the nature of the status of both Wade and Bosh and some of the role players he was still underdog to the Spurs teams and one of Dallas/OKC I can't remember which (I think OKC).

I don't wanna think about anything. I see what I see. Kobe was favourite in all Shaq series. Not favourite in the Boston 08 series and maybe even 2010 as well. Favourite against Orlando. No point being hypothetical. If Kobe came up against some of the teams Bron came up against in the Finals with that same supporting cast, you bet he'd be the underdog.

You think Lebron would take a team wit pau gasol as the second best player to win it all, let alone twice... In the western conference? We already know the answer to that .. When Cavs won, there was chatter about Kyrie shoulda been finals mvp .. Was there any talks bout pau shoulda been finals mvp when lakers won??

Yes, because LeBron is that good. Now I will admit that to get to the Finals, Kobe's teams have often had tougher roads, but once again in his early career, his team was ridiculously stacked. When Kobe had a bum team, he wasn't getting anywhere other than padding up his personal stats, and it's a shame because the absolute peak of his career was arguably when his team was not getting him anywhere.

The same way Irving was being talked about with regards to Finals MVP is the same way Pau was (more or less) for the 2010 series, especially after Kobe wet the bed offensively in game 7. Hell even Ron Artest was being mentioned...

Cmon folks .. I know the Lebron diccriding is at an all time high wit him winnin and all .. But the entire forum was jus talkin bout how there was never a Lebron era, how we skipped from kobe to steph, how he's been washed up and keeps losing on the biggest stage, how he continues to get cakewalks to the finals cuz he plays in the east, how his game is ugly and he still doesn't have go to moves ..... And all of a sudden, the entire narrative does a 180 ..... Because he had 3 great games? 3 great games and 4 subpar ones.....but if steph don't choke, then we talkin bout how terrible Lebron is .....

There's no doubt many people are suffering from a 'prisoner of the moment' type thing with LeBron now, but don't go off an irrational forum to determine anything. There's a fine line between winning and losing with respect to legacy building, and if LeBron lost it would have meant one thing...but he won, so it means another.

Now I don't know at this point whether Bron's legacy can quite match Kobe yet, but taking legacy into account, in addition to just pure basketball talent and how the careers have played out, I give Bron the slight edge in post-championship 2016. If he had lost, maybe he would still be behind. As I said...fine lines. And in spite of all this, I wouldn't be mad if someone took Kobe ahead of Bron, because I can see arguments in his favour for sure. But remember, Bron still has a good 4/5 years to continue to build, this dude is in serious contention for being the GOAT. Kobe was always in and has remained in Jordan's shadow.

Shiit jus don't make any logical sense. If prime Kobe was facing these warriors and steph was playin like that, u KNOWWW that's a sweep... Brodie. Tell me u know that.....I know most the casuals won't get it, but cmon now, let's keep it all the way all the way.

Again, hypothetical. No point trying to guess.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

What this tells me is that LeBron has had a far worse supporting cast, at least if we look at Golden State 2015 and to some extent 2016 and for sure his first Finals in 2007. I would never say his Heat teams had a bad cast all around, but even in those series because of the nature of the status of both Wade and Bosh and some of the role players he was still underdog to the Spurs teams and one of Dallas/OKC I can't remember which (I think OKC).

I don't wanna think about anything. I see what I see. Kobe was favourite in all Shaq series. Not favourite in the Boston 08 series and maybe even 2010 as well. Favourite against Orlando. No point being hypothetical. If Kobe came up against some of the teams Bron came up against in the Finals with that same supporting cast, you bet he'd be the underdog.



Yes, because LeBron is that good. Now I will admit that to get to the Finals, Kobe's teams have often had tougher roads, but once again in his early career, his team was ridiculously stacked. When Kobe had a bum team, he wasn't getting anywhere other than padding up his personal stats, and it's a shame because the absolute peak of his career was arguably when his team was not getting him anywhere.

The same way Irving was being talked about with regards to Finals MVP is the same way Pau was (more or less) for the 2010 series, especially after Kobe wet the bed offensively in game 7. Hell even Ron Artest was being mentioned...




There's no doubt many people are suffering from a 'prisoner of the moment' type thing with LeBron now, but don't go off an irrational forum to determine anything. There's a fine line between winning and losing with respect to legacy building, and if LeBron lost it would have meant one thing...but he won, so it means another.

Now I don't know at this point whether Bron's legacy can quite match Kobe yet, but taking legacy into account, in addition to just pure basketball talent and how the careers have played out, I give Bron the slight edge in post-championship 2016. If he had lost, maybe he would still be behind. As I said...fine lines. And in spite of all this, I wouldn't be mad if someone took Kobe ahead of Bron, because I can see arguments in his favour for sure. But remember, Bron still has a good 4/5 years to continue to build, this dude is in serious contention for being the GOAT. Kobe was always in and has remained in Jordan's shadow.



Again, hypothetical. No point trying to guess.

6 of 24 in game 7. "kobe saved the day with 15 rebounds"


lebron game 7 triple dub, 9 of 24, with the best block ever, "he choked, stat padder"

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

6 of 24 in game 7. "kobe saved the day with 15 rebounds"


lebron game 7 triple dub, 9 of 24, with the best block ever, "he choked, stat padder"

I've been arguing Kobe over LeBron for the LONGEST time but I can't deny it anymore.

Bron is really not human, and he still has time to build

 

[Sccit]

The logic of Kobe stans.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Ok so let me simplify it .. Is it not true that Lebron is in the minority of all time greats in having a losing finals record? Is it not true that he's underperformed on the big stage more than the majority of this list? Is it not true that if the Warriors don't underperform, that he is now 2/7 in the finals? I mean, he went down to the wire with a team that wasn't playing close to their best basketball, and was argued by some as not even the finals MVP.. Granted, I do think he was finals MVP, but I'm sure you see my point.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Ok so let me simplify it .. Is it not true that Lebron is in the minority of all time greats in having a losing finals record? Is it not true that he's underperformed on the big stage more than the majority of this list? Is it not true that if the Warriors don't underperform, that he is now 2/7 in the finals? I mean, he went down to the wire with a team that wasn't playing close to their best basketball, and was argued by some as not even the finals MVP.. Granted, I do think he was finals MVP, but I'm sure you see my point.

having a losing record in the Finals only matters if your team is favourites more often than not and you have simply just disappointed. LeBron has been favourites TWICE, and has won THREE times.

His performances in the Finals speak for themselves. He's been a monster, but hasn't had the necessary help in some series. The only series I'll say he outright fukked up was Dallas. That was inexcusable. Against San Antonio (2007, 2014) and GS (2015), he didn't have near enough help.

 

[Sccit]

What this tells me is that LeBron has had a far worse supporting cast, at least if we look at Golden State 2015 and to some extent 2016 and for sure his first Finals in 2007. I would never say his Heat teams had a bad cast all around, but even in those series because of the nature of the status of both Wade and Bosh and some of the role players he was still underdog to the Spurs teams and one of Dallas/OKC I can't remember which (I think OKC).

I don't wanna think about anything. I see what I see. Kobe was favourite in all Shaq series. Not favourite in the Boston 08 series and maybe even 2010 as well. Favourite against Orlando. No point being hypothetical. If Kobe came up against some of the teams Bron came up against in the Finals with that same supporting cast, you bet he'd be the underdog.



Yes, because LeBron is that good. Now I will admit that to get to the Finals, Kobe's teams have often had tougher roads, but once again in his early career, his team was ridiculously stacked. When Kobe had a bum team, he wasn't getting anywhere other than padding up his personal stats, and it's a shame because the absolute peak of his career was arguably when his team was not getting him anywhere.

The same way Irving was being talked about with regards to Finals MVP is the same way Pau was (more or less) for the 2010 series, especially after Kobe wet the bed offensively in game 7. Hell even Ron Artest was being mentioned...




There's no doubt many people are suffering from a 'prisoner of the moment' type thing with LeBron now, but don't go off an irrational forum to determine anything. There's a fine line between winning and losing with respect to legacy building, and if LeBron lost it would have meant one thing...but he won, so it means another.

Now I don't know at this point whether Bron's legacy can quite match Kobe yet, but taking legacy into account, in addition to just pure basketball talent and how the careers have played out, I give Bron the slight edge in post-championship 2016. If he had lost, maybe he would still be behind. As I said...fine lines. And in spite of all this, I wouldn't be mad if someone took Kobe ahead of Bron, because I can see arguments in his favour for sure. But remember, Bron still has a good 4/5 years to continue to build, this dude is in serious contention for being the GOAT. Kobe was always in and has remained in Jordan's shadow.



Again, hypothetical. No point trying to guess.

Lebron has played on superteams these past 6 years and you sitting here saying he was underdog because his supporting casts ... Lol stop that bruh. Kobe with the same teams is easily favored. Kobe was favored in all three of his finals post-shaq, even 2008 I believe ...... Now you calling Kobe teams ridiculously stacked lmao the 2nd best player on them teams was pau gasol and 3rd best was Lamar Odom (never even an allstar) .. That's equivalent to Lebron winning with Chris bosh and Rashard Lewis as his teams 2nd and 3rd best player .. We know that ain't happening, as Lebron has always needed another alpha on his team to win. Pau was never seriously mentioned as finals MVP lmfao if u look at series stats, there was always a huge drop off in production from Kobe to pau .. Same cannot be said for Lebron and his co-star. Lebron is not even in Jordan's shadow, because true basketball purists know he's not even close to bein as good .. No post game, weak foot work, no jumper, no handles, etc... He's subpar from a skill perspective, which is why he can never get serious goat mentions, as prime Kobe always did .. Because prime Kobe was able to match Jordan from a skill perspective AND had the hardware to back it up ....... Now, the bspn narrative is extremely influential on people's opunions, so your casual observer will put Lebron over Kobe based on that .. But if u look at it from a logical perspective, Lebron needs at least 2 more to even be mentioned with Kobe.....and even then, he ain't touchin Kobe from a skill perspective. But if he wins 2 more, we can safely put him in the same tier .. As of now

 

[Sccit]

having a losing record in the Finals only matters if your team is favourites more often than not and you have simply just disappointed. LeBron has been favourites TWICE, and has won THREE times.

His performances in the Finals speak for themselves. He's been a monster, but hasn't had the necessary help in some series. The only series I'll say he outright fukked up was Dallas. That was inexcusable. Against San Antonio (2007, 2014) and GS (2015), he didn't have near enough help.

Again, u gota look deeper into it .. WHY is he only favorite 2 outa 7 times? Especially when he playin on superteams?? Kobe on superteams is not gettin favored only 2 outa 7 times, n we all know it.....

 

[Sccit]

And you keep saying lebrons been a monster in the finals .. But you are caught in the moment. The moment being him defeating an underperforming opponent partially due to their star player choking and their arguable 2nd best player being suspended for a close out game ......


Lebron has underperformed in big games more than anyone on this list, including in this years finals where he was basically bein called a biitch by everyone after the first 4 games....let's not forget that his play is bipolar, and that he sux as often as he plays big .. Right now, his big play is fresh on our minds, which is why everyone on his dicc ..... But we all know that a month ago, the narrative was the exact opposite of what it is now.. Because he has just as many games where he underperforms as games where he beasts ...... Granted, he won and he deserves mad credit. But those games that he sucked in and was gettin called a biitch for still count against him ..... Lord knows, Kobe was never constantly scrutinized as an underachiever nearly as much as Lebron has throughout his career.


They fickle tho

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Again, u gota look deeper into it .. WHY is he only favorite 2 outa 7 times? Especially when he playin on superteams?? Kobe on superteams is not gettin favored only 2 outa 7 times, n we all know it.....

Superteam or not he's been playing BETTER teams breh it really isn't that deep

let's look at the Finals....

2007: no superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2011: superteam, favourite, lost (BAD)
2012*: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)
2013: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)
2014, superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2015: no superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2016**: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)

* not favourites because OKC had a better superteam
** I'd hardly call this Cavs team a super team but ok

and in his super teams he's had to deal with injury problems with respect to his co-stars e.g. Kevin Love, Irving, Bosh & Wade, and regardless, he's gone up against historically great teams e.g. 2014 Spurs, 2015-16 Warriors etc.

Kobe has faced far inferior Finals competition.

I see what you're saying bro, but it all depends on the level of competition too. Dallas was his only major fukk up.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

actually @Sccit scratch the OKC one they were favourites I think, but he won anyway

 

[Sccit]

What this tells me is that LeBron has had a far worse supporting cast, at least if we look at Golden State 2015 and to some extent 2016 and for sure his first Finals in 2007. I would never say his Heat teams had a bad cast all around, but even in those series because of the nature of the status of both Wade and Bosh and some of the role players he was still underdog to the Spurs teams and one of Dallas/OKC I can't remember which (I think OKC).

I don't wanna think about anything. I see what I see. Kobe was favourite in all Shaq series. Not favourite in the Boston 08 series and maybe even 2010 as well. Favourite against Orlando. No point being hypothetical. If Kobe came up against some of the teams Bron came up against in the Finals with that same supporting cast, you bet he'd be the underdog.



Yes, because LeBron is that good. Now I will admit that to get to the Finals, Kobe's teams have often had tougher roads, but once again in his early career, his team was ridiculously stacked. When Kobe had a bum team, he wasn't getting anywhere other than padding up his personal stats, and it's a shame because the absolute peak of his career was arguably when his team was not getting him anywhere.

The same way Irving was being talked about with regards to Finals MVP is the same way Pau was (more or less) for the 2010 series, especially after Kobe wet the bed offensively in game 7. Hell even Ron Artest was being mentioned...




There's no doubt many people are suffering from a 'prisoner of the moment' type thing with LeBron now, but don't go off an irrational forum to determine anything. There's a fine line between winning and losing with respect to legacy building, and if LeBron lost it would have meant one thing...but he won, so it means another.

Now I don't know at this point whether Bron's legacy can quite match Kobe yet, but taking legacy into account, in addition to just pure basketball talent and how the careers have played out, I give Bron the slight edge in post-championship 2016. If he had lost, maybe he would still be behind. As I said...fine lines. And in spite of all this, I wouldn't be mad if someone took Kobe ahead of Bron, because I can see arguments in his favour for sure. But remember, Bron still has a good 4/5 years to continue to build, this dude is in serious contention for being the GOAT. Kobe was always in and has remained in Jordan's shadow.



Again, hypothetical. No point trying to guess.

Superteam or not he's been playing BETTER teams breh it really isn't that deep

let's look at the Finals....

2007: no superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2011: superteam, favourite, lost (BAD)
2012*: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)
2013: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)
2014, superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2015: no superteam, not favourite, lost (GOOD)
2016**: superteam, not favourite, won (GOOD)

* not favourites because OKC had a better superteam
** I'd hardly call this Cavs team a super team but ok

and in his super teams he's had to deal with injury problems with respect to his co-stars e.g. Kevin Love, Irving, Bosh & Wade, and regardless, he's gone up against historically great teams e.g. 2014 Spurs, 2015-16 Warriors etc.

Kobe has faced far inferior Finals competition.

I see what you're saying bro, but it all depends on the level of competition too. Dallas was his only major fukk up.

So let's be objective here homie ..... Do you think if you put prime Kobe or prime MJ on those same teams, they'd only be favored 2 outta 7 times? Keep in mind that Kobe consistently made Duncan and the Spurs his biitch throughout his career. Which having Duncan above Kobe is another blasphemous placing, but that's a whole nother topic I ain't even tryna get into.



If this was July 2010, Kobe is making top 5 on the coli... I can guarantee that. It's just how the mind of a casual observer works fam.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

So let's be objective here homie ..... Do you think if you put prime Kobe or prime MJ on those same teams, they'd only be favored 2 outta 7 times? Keep in mind that Kobe consistently made Duncan and the Spurs his biitch throughout his career. Which having Duncan above Kobe is another blasphemous placing, but that's a whole nother topic I ain't even tryna get into.



If this was July 2010, Kobe is making top 5 on the coli... I can guarantee that. It's just how the mind of a casual observer works fam.

As I said, people are prisoner of the moment. But that's not my personal take on it just because some irrational Bron stans come in claiming shyt. I'm not a huge stan of either player, just seeing it like it is.

I don't like to play hypotheticals but even if I entertained your scenario, I'd say that yes I think the same odds would face prime MJ and Kobe. The 2007 supporting cast is so garbage they have no chance. The 2014 Spurs team were damn near unstoppable especially in the playoffs. Kobe having a flabby Wade and inconsistent Bosh as damn near role players on the team wouldn't help his cause at all.

But we will never know these things so no point guessing.

If you think Kobe is better, that's cool, because it is not ridiculous to think that. Kobe one of the GOATs. Anyway I totally respect your angle!

 

[Microfracture]

too many casuals here....the coli is fickle. when lebron was down 1-3 to golden state, the entire front page of this forum was about how he's done, not even an all-time great, most overrated player in history, not half as good as kobe, etc etc.......so a draymond suspension later, the tides turned and lebron took advantage.....sure, it elevates him, 3 great games will give u a boost in stature, but not from what every1 was sayin to this.......


i know u love u some lebron either way....but ur average coli poster.....wayyyyyy too fickle.

i got lebron right around 12-10 right now........kobe is automatically top 5. if this were 2010, kobe's making top 5 easy on this forum.


wayyyyyyyyyyy too fickle.

It was posters like you who had all those threads on Page 1. Lebron is so far ahead of Kobe as a basketball player its laughable.