Time to Get Honest About These Title Reigns Brehs

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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RammerJammer said:
Really only like 3-4 of his reigns were decent to good:

Age of Orton (2008-2009)
WHC reigns in feud with Christian (2011)
Face of the WWE (2013)
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The 2013-14 runs were bad too. Going into night of champions, there was a chance for him to have a good run as champ, but it went off the rails afterwards. Loses clean a month after winning but the ref counts fast for no reason so the belt gets vacated even though he was out cold a minute or two after the 3 count anyway. Big show knocks out him and Bryan a month after that to end the pay per view so fans call and demand refunds from their cable provider. Shawn costs Bryan the hell in a cell match (the entire point of the match type is so the two competitors can settle the score with no interference). Then there’s the shytty feud with big show where show stole the yes chants. After that, they revisit the terrible feud with cena for 2 months and after the tlc pay per view, he’s a complete afterthought in the title picture kinda like Jericho was going into WM 18. Seriously, go back and watch the video package for the title match at wrestlemania 30. I don’t think there’s a single word spoken by Orton in the video. It’s all Bryan vs triple h.
 
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Dreamzeedream

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Mantis Toboggan M.D. said:
Elevating cena or someone he feuded with, those people being punk and Bryan. The list of legit classic matches during those reigns is pretty short and most of the feuds were pretty forgettable as well.
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:patrice: yall might be down playing history.



Cena vs edge feud:kicked off edges main event career
Cena vs hbk feud: gave us a classic.damn near 2.
Cena vs rvd/ecw feud: that was dope and elevated rvd and bought ecw back in good way
Cena vs Orton: gave us some dope moments. The IWC was rooting for orton championship run in 07/08
Cena vs HHH: help elevate cena. I like the Cena vs HHH vs HBK triple threat match to.
Cena Vs Punk: Classic feud
Cena Vs Lashley: help elevate lashley but he ended up leaving soon after. I think he would of up ended up being wwe champion. He should have beat cena at great American bash.
Cena vs Kurt: Helped elevate Cena.
Cena vs R truth: helped elevate R truth and actually showed us that truth could be a main eventer during that heel run but the wwe dint see it that way.
Cena vs y2j:helped elevate cena
Cena vs Umaga::patrice: I would have gave umaga a monster championship test run. But that elevated cena and put umaga in a main event spot
Cena vs Khali:the build up was good. Helped elevate cena.

Cens vs ryback::patrice:
 
Mantis Toboggan M.D.

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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Dreamzeedream said:
:patrice: yall might be down playing history.



Cena vs edge feud:kicked off edges main event career
Cena vs hbk feud: gave us a classic.damn near 2.
Cena vs rvd/ecw feud: that was dope and elevated rvd and bought ecw back in good way
Cena vs Orton: gave us some dope moments. The IWC was rooting for orton championship run in 07/08
Cena vs HHH: help elevate cena. I like the Cena vs HHH vs HBK triple threat match to.
Cena Vs Punk: Classic feud
Cena Vs Lashley: help elevate lashley but he ended up leaving soon after. I think he would of up ended up being wwe champion. He should have beat cena at great American bash.
Cena vs Kurt: Helped elevate Cena.
Cena vs R truth: helped elevate R truth and actually showed us that truth could be a main eventer during that heel run but the wwe dint see it that way.
Cena vs y2j:helped elevate cena
Cena vs Umaga::patrice: I would have gave umaga a monster championship test run. But that elevated cena and put umaga in a main event spot
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I said after 2006. I agreed cena and Shawn had an amazing match going into backlash.

The triple h feud didn’t do cena any favors. If anything, it hurt him because the crowd clearly supported the top heel in the company and arguably the industry behind the hand picked top face and cena was still the same white meat face with no more depth than a cardboard cutout after it ended.

The Kurt angle feud did him no favors. That’s when they were trying to make him into some hybrid of the rock and Steve Austin while trying to make an Austin vs McMahon type feud with him and bischoff that flopped miserably. That’s around the time all of his matches turned into “cena gets beat up all match and then does his 5 moves of doom to win at the end”.

The Chris Jericho feud is when the crowd began to turn on him. Look up his “Y2cheap” promo.

Umaga was clearly built up solely for him to be a big scary heel for cena to beat. They never really had any plans or priorities for him after that feud. I think they had a pretty good match at the rumble though.

The 2007 Orton feud wasn’t bad, but again it’s a problem when the top heel on your brand has the crowd firmly in his corner against the top face in the company. The feud stalled out after summerslam in my opinion though. Makes no sense that Orton would get a rematch as the challenger when he lost clean at the event.

I don’t recall the triple threat with dx but assume the match was good at least. His feud with punk is one of the two I referenced that post 2006 were legit good.
 
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Cardinal Murphy said:
It’s a similar concept with the midcard belts. How many reigns have/did guys like Kofi, Ziggler, Barrett, etc. have with the IC/US belts? Those titles were supposed to be stepping stones for rising stars on their way up the card and back in the day they were. Instead they eventually became ceilings for guys that the company might’ve valued, but not at a main event level. So you’ve got someone like say, Ziggler with like 5 or 6 runs with the IC belt when there were atleast a few times during those runs where he was ready to graduate beyond that level, but they never put the machine behind him, so he became what we have today.
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It's not even as much as a machine behind them, it's about trust. Ziggler, Wade, Jericho, Kofi and Miz are all guys they could trust. Outside of Wade, none of them had lengthy injuries and they're good workers who the audience enjoy. They don't trust enough. In-between the five guys mentioned, everyone else had one title reigns except Dean with two. You're telling me they couldn't give Owens another run? Ryder? Big E? And the thing about Jericho is, he may have nine reigns but it's nine reigns in ten years and there were several champions inbetween.
 
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Mantis Toboggan M.D. said:
I said after 2006. I agreed cena and Shawn had an amazing match going into backlash.

The triple h feud didn’t do cena any favors. If anything, it hurt him because the crowd clearly supported the top heel in the company and arguably the industry behind the hand picked top face and cena was still the same white meat face with no more depth than a cardboard cutout after it ended.

The Kurt angle feud did him no favors. That’s when they were trying to make him into some hybrid of the rock and Steve Austin while trying to make an Austin vs McMahon type feud with him and bischoff that flopped miserably. That’s around the time all of his matches turned into “cena gets beat up all match and then does his 5 moves of doom to win at the end”.

The Chris Jericho feud is when the crowd began to turn on him. Look up his “Y2cheap” promo.

Umaga was clearly built up solely for him to be a big scary heel for cena to beat. They never really had any plans or priorities for him after that feud. I think they had a pretty good match at the rumble though.

The 2007 Orton feud wasn’t bad, but again it’s a problem when the top heel on your brand has the crowd firmly in his corner against the top face in the company. The feud stalled out after summerslam in my opinion though. Makes no sense that Orton would get a rematch as the challenger when he lost clean at the event.

I don’t recall the triple threat with dx but assume the match was good at least. His feud with punk is one of the two I referenced that post 2006 were legit good.
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:ehh: I see where you coming from. I was 12/13 during that time so I can't really remember certain things. Alot the hate came from cena winning all the time tho, Like u said he would get beat up all match then come back to win towards the end.
 
Playaz Eyez

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Dreamzeedream said:
He's still a GOAT. I know he has his ways but yall underrate/disrespect that man's talent so much
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No one underrates nor disrespects his talent. He is a goat, he’s just not better than a ton of other goats. As far as his direct peers, he’s not in front of Rock, Austin, HBK, Angle, Mankind, Bret, or Undertaker. He’s also not in front of previous era legends like Savage, Sting, Flair, Hogan, Piper, Warrior, etc. Wouldn’t have him in front of Hall and Nash based off the NWO alone.
 
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Playaz Eyez said:
No one underrates nor disrespects his talent. He is a goat, he’s just not better than a ton of other goats. As far as his direct peers, he’s not in front of Rock, Austin, HBK, Angle, Mankind, Bret, or Undertaker. He’s also not in front of previous era legends like Savage, Sting, Flair, Hogan, Piper, Warrior, etc. Wouldn’t have him in front of Hall and Nash based off the NWO alone.
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:ehh: all those are once in a life time goats. I don't know if I'll put hall or nash or him though.

He's a better wrestler then some of the goats tho
 
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