Thread on how china became a science superpower according to the economist.

Mister Terrific

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You're the weirdest foreign affairs expert here breh :heh:

Cat acts like he knows what's going on in every country :mjlol:

Posting about China's chips, but people I go to school with as Electrical Engineers and working professionals say China/Asia is a hotspot for chips because we actually have industry knowledge and see jobs ship over there every day. You can even see that on subreddits. Cats I personally know deal with that shyt every day for job hunts. Where's your expertise on that?

China will make just 2% of most advanced chips by 2032, report says​

U.S. set to triple its semiconductor manufacturing capacity due to CHIPS Act

LOS ANGELES -- The U.S. is set to more than triple its semiconductor manufacturing capacity and control almost 30% of advanced chipmaking by 2032, thanks in no small part to the CHIPS Act.

The country could be producing 28% of chips below the 10-nanometer level by then, while China is expected to make only 2% of the most advanced chips, according to a report released Wednesday by the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) and Boston Consulting Group (BCG).

Washington passed the CHIPS and Science Act in 2022, with the bill granting $39 billion in funding for building chip manufacturing capacity in America as the nation seeks to curb its reliance on Asia-concentrated supply chains.

TSMC originally intended to make 3-nm chips in its Arizona fab, but now will also produce 2-nm ones after receiving a $6.6 billion grant. Samsung has also pledged to mass produce 2-nm chips in its Texas fabs with $6.4 billion in funding from the CHIPS Act.

As a result, by 2032, the U.S. will have the capacity to manufacture 28% of chips below 10 nanometers, according to the SIA and BCG report.

By comparison, while China has also laid out more than $142 billion in government incentives to build its domestic semiconductor industry, the country is expected to be able to make only 2% of the world’s most advanced chips, the report projected.

“China seems to be putting a lot more energy into the so-called legacy chips,” said John Neuffer, president and CEO of SIA.

For example, for chips in the range of 10 to 22 nanometers, China will triple its share of manufacturing capacity from 6% to 19% by 2032. For those above 28 nanometers, China is expected to show the biggest share gain, going from 33% in 2022 to 37% in 2032, according to the report.

Meanwhile, U.S. controls on semiconductor exports to China, especially on leading-edge chips and chipmaking tools, are also part of the reason China will fall so far behind the U.S., despite both having zero advanced chip manufacturing capacity in 2022.

“There are some controls that are probably slowing things down,” said Neuffer, adding that “China is starting from a much lower base for the most advanced chips.”

He continued, “Despite the U.S. kind of slipping on manufacturing, when it comes to design and R&D, the U.S. is number one and has been that way for nearly the entire view of our industry's history.”






So instead of working for 8 of the 10 largest companies by market cap in the world including 7 out of the 10 most valued semi-conductor companies in the world
images


your “colleagues” go to China because that’s where is happening? Even though I’ve proven they don’t have the manufacturing capability to produce advanced chips?

anchorman-anchor-man.gif
 

IIVI

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China will make just 2% of most advanced chips by 2032, report says​

U.S. set to triple its semiconductor manufacturing capacity due to CHIPS Act

LOS ANGELES -- The U.S. is set to more than triple its semiconductor manufacturing capacity and control almost 30% of advanced chipmaking by 2032, thanks in no small part to the CHIPS Act.

The country could be producing 28% of chips below the 10-nanometer level by then, while China is expected to make only 2% of the most advanced chips, according to a report released Wednesday by the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) and Boston Consulting Group (BCG).

Washington passed the CHIPS and Science Act in 2022, with the bill granting $39 billion in funding for building chip manufacturing capacity in America as the nation seeks to curb its reliance on Asia-concentrated supply chains.

TSMC originally intended to make 3-nm chips in its Arizona fab, but now will also produce 2-nm ones after receiving a $6.6 billion grant. Samsung has also pledged to mass produce 2-nm chips in its Texas fabs with $6.4 billion in funding from the CHIPS Act.

As a result, by 2032, the U.S. will have the capacity to manufacture 28% of chips below 10 nanometers, according to the SIA and BCG report.

By comparison, while China has also laid out more than $142 billion in government incentives to build its domestic semiconductor industry, the country is expected to be able to make only 2% of the world’s most advanced chips, the report projected.

“China seems to be putting a lot more energy into the so-called legacy chips,” said John Neuffer, president and CEO of SIA.

For example, for chips in the range of 10 to 22 nanometers, China will triple its share of manufacturing capacity from 6% to 19% by 2032. For those above 28 nanometers, China is expected to show the biggest share gain, going from 33% in 2022 to 37% in 2032, according to the report.

Meanwhile, U.S. controls on semiconductor exports to China, especially on leading-edge chips and chipmaking tools, are also part of the reason China will fall so far behind the U.S., despite both having zero advanced chip manufacturing capacity in 2022.

“There are some controls that are probably slowing things down,” said Neuffer, adding that “China is starting from a much lower base for the most advanced chips.”

He continued, “Despite the U.S. kind of slipping on manufacturing, when it comes to design and R&D, the U.S. is number one and has been that way for nearly the entire view of our industry's history.”






So instead of working for 8 of the 10 largest companies by market cap in the world including 7 out of the 10 most valued semi-conductor companies in the world
images


your “colleagues” go to China because that’s where is happening? Even though I’ve proven they don’t have the manufacturing capability to produce advanced chips?

anchorman-anchor-man.gif
Stop quoting biased articles breh, the University Discords and Subreddits probably tell you a lot more.

Literally people advising to look outside of the country in a quick search. You can probably find many more examples about outsourcing.


Recent discussion on the CHIPS Act:

I know some other folks in here who haven't seen anything come of this yet either.
 
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papa pimp

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Stop quoting biased articles breh, the University Discords and Subreddits probably tell you a lot more.

What makes the article biased? Its a fact Xi went to the Netherlands to beg the ASML CEO for the lithographic machine tech needed to catchup to Taiwan and co.
 

IIVI

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What makes the article biased? Its a fact Xi went to the Netherlands to beg the ASML CEO for the lithographic machine tech needed to catchup to Taiwan and co.
My question is still: how many of those jobs are being outsourced?

Nvidia is #1 but they do a lot of outsourcing as a 100% remote company for example.

The biggest winners out of all this are the Chinese middle class because they've been getting boosted from the outsourcing from all those companies mentioned in the articles.
 
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Mister Terrific

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Stop quoting biased articles breh, the University Discords and Subreddits probably tell you a lot more.

Literally people advising to look outside of the country in a quick search. You can probably find many more examples about outsourcing.


Recent discussion on the CHIPS Act:

I know some other folks in here who haven't seen anything come of this yet either.

Dude posted a subreddit with 3 upvotes and 2 posts. :mjlol:


The salary of an NVIDIA engineer can vary depending on their position and experience, but here are some estimates for different roles:
  • Quality Assurance: $51,723 per year
  • System Engineer: $173,946 per year
  • Senior System Engineer: $221,838 per year
  • Quality Engineer: $157,018 per year
  • Test Engineer: $145,194 per year
  • Security Engineer: $216,770 per year
  • Senior Test Engineer: $209,084 per year
  • Engineering Manager: $158,473 per year
  • Senior Quality Engineer: $177,606 per year
  • Senior Manufacturing Engineer: $202,180 per year
  • Platform Manager: $207,857 per year
  • Principal Engineer: $442,500 per year
  • Entry-level Software Engineer: $173,000 per year


Sure breh. China. That’s where people want to immigrate to.


China’s chip champion SMIC reports slump in revenue, income for 2023 amid weak market, stiff competition​

  • Revenue for the full year was US$6.32 billion, compared with US$7.27 billion in 2022, while net income slumped 50.4 per cent to US$902.5 million
  • For 2024, the company estimated that revenue growth will be in line with the industry average, although it is not expecting a strong rebound in growth


Meanwhile

As of June 14, 2024, NVIDIA's (NVDA) market cap was $3.24 trillion, which is a 241.07% increase from the previous year. Other key data for NVIDIA's stock as of June 15, 2024 includes:
  • Open: $129.96
  • 52-week range: $39.23–$132.84
  • Shares outstanding: 24.6 billion
  • Public float: 23.55 billion
  • Beta: 1.73
  • Revenue per employee: $2,695,000
  • P/E ratio: 77.15
  • EPS: $1.71
  • Yield: 0.03%
  • Dividend: $0.01


Just stop bro. China will produce all the self cited research papers on the world and it won’t mean shyt and that’s before their demographic collapse :umad:
 

Fillerguy

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Utter nonsense. :mjlol: :dead:

The US has maintained its lead in chip design and research and development, led by companies like Intel (INTC) and Nvidia (NVDA), but it manufactures just 10% of the global chip supply. Meanwhile, 100% of all advanced chips are developed overseas, mostly by TSMC (TSM) in Taiwan.

Neuffer said the scale of investments made since 2022 has put the US in a stronger position to compete for advanced chip manufacturing, with the country set to capture 28% of the market for chips below 10 nanometers by 2032. A smaller nanometer size indicates a more powerful chip.




China doesn’t even have the manufacturing capability to produce advanced microchips yet.




Source? :mjgrin:
This doesn't contradict anything I said. I never said China dominates the manufacturing sector. And I also admitted the US shelters many companies that lead in tech, of course, but that's not what's being discussed here. China has been cultivating an environment that encourages scientific innovation and development, on almost every level.... while the US is not. We seem to be doing the opposite, for profit sake.

And I was giving an example of how US companies tackle research. They'd rather invest in what's profitable and practical vs things that would move us forward. And apparently we have around 50 years of reserves left if we don't change of consumption. Some China is actively taking the initiative on reducing (because they do the most damage :mjpls: )

 

IIVI

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Dude posted a subreddit with 3 upvotes and 2 posts. :mjlol:


The salary of an NVIDIA engineer can vary depending on their position and experience, but here are some estimates for different roles:
  • Quality Assurance: $51,723 per year
  • System Engineer: $173,946 per year
  • Senior System Engineer: $221,838 per year
  • Quality Engineer: $157,018 per year
  • Test Engineer: $145,194 per year
  • Security Engineer: $216,770 per year
  • Senior Test Engineer: $209,084 per year
  • Engineering Manager: $158,473 per year
  • Senior Quality Engineer: $177,606 per year
  • Senior Manufacturing Engineer: $202,180 per year
  • Platform Manager: $207,857 per year
  • Principal Engineer: $442,500 per year
  • Entry-level Software Engineer: $173,000 per year


Sure breh. China. That’s where people want to immigrate to.


China’s chip champion SMIC reports slump in revenue, income for 2023 amid weak market, stiff competition​

  • Revenue for the full year was US$6.32 billion, compared with US$7.27 billion in 2022, while net income slumped 50.4 per cent to US$902.5 million
  • For 2024, the company estimated that revenue growth will be in line with the industry average, although it is not expecting a strong rebound in growth


Meanwhile

As of June 14, 2024, NVIDIA's (NVDA) market cap was $3.24 trillion, which is a 241.07% increase from the previous year. Other key data for NVIDIA's stock as of June 15, 2024 includes:
  • Open: $129.96
  • 52-week range: $39.23–$132.84
  • Shares outstanding: 24.6 billion
  • Public float: 23.55 billion
  • Beta: 1.73
  • Revenue per employee: $2,695,000
  • P/E ratio: 77.15
  • EPS: $1.71
  • Yield: 0.03%
  • Dividend: $0.01


Just stop bro. China will produce all the self cited research papers on the world and it won’t mean shyt and that’s before their demographic collapse :umad:
Guess the countries where NVIDIA outsources to? All over Asia rather than in the U.S. All that money to build middle classes outside of the states.

NVIDIA is doing exceptional, but that money isn't 100% going back into America and engineers here. I don't care how much those jobs make if a large number of those jobs won't even go to people here anyways.

Over 6,000 out of the 18,000 engineers working at NVIDIA live in India for example, not to mention the many Indians who work there that live here:

It doesn't matter if for every 2 engineers you hire living in another country on top of how many Indians/Chinese they hire stateside anyways. Look at their Engineering team, look at their faces and their names. Is that really a "Western/American" team?

All those top "American" companies you list are about the same. Go ahead and look at their engineering teams. Now tell me we're tripping when we say breaking into those teams isn't tough?

shyt, Qualcomm got more engineers living in India than America:
 
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IIVI

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Straight out the horse's mouth. Doesn't get much more official than Nature:




Anti-STEM MAGA Republicans haven't even taken over yet.
 
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bnew

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China races to unlock one of the biggest mysteries in particle physics​


JUNO, the underground facility in Kaiping, will boot up in 2025.

By Andrew Paul

Posted on Oct 17, 2024 11:05 AM EDT

This photo taken during a media tour on October 11, 2024 shows the neutrino detector, a stainless steel and acrylic sphere around 35 meters in diameter, at the Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory (Juno) in Kaiping, in southern China's Guangdong province.


This photo taken during a media tour on October 11, 2024 shows the neutrino detector, a stainless steel and acrylic sphere around 35 meters in diameter, at the Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory (JUNO) in Kaiping, in southern China's Guangdong province. Credit: JADE GAO/AFP via Getty Images


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China hopes a giant laboratory 2,300 feet underground is key to beating the US at discovering the secrets of the universe’s most mysterious particles–neutrinos. Slated for completion next year, after over a decade of construction, the roughly $311 million Jiangmen Underground Neutrino Observatory (JUNO) relies on a nearly 115-foot-wide stainless steel and acrylic spherical machine designed to help measure incomprehensibly small subatomic units that move almost at the speed of light. Despite blanketing the universe (100 trillion are believed to pass through your body every second), very little is known about neutrinos and their behavior due how difficult it is to detect them.

If all goes according to plan, however, Chinese physicists intend to make history by uncovering information that will lead to cracking what’s known as the “mass hierarchy” problem. And they want to do it before anyone else.

This photo taken during a media tour on October 11, 2024 shows workers working on the stainless steel structure of the neutrino detector. Credit: JADE GAO/AFP via Getty Images
This photo taken during a media tour on October 11, 2024 shows workers working on the stainless steel structure of the neutrino detector. Credit: JADE GAO/AFP via Getty Images
“[Being] the first means everything, and the second means nothing,” Wang Yifang, JUNO project manager and the director of China’s Institute of High Energy Physics, told the AFP during a facility tour earlier this month.

Experts determined years ago that neutrinos appear to occupy one of three mass states—but their weights from the heaviest to lightest remain unclear. If researchers can figure those out, the new information may help build a more complete standard model of particle physics, as well as expand our knowledge of the inner workings of planets, stars, and supernovas. JUNO’s potential mass hierarchy findings may even force physicists to reconsider established scientific facts, particularly when it comes to quantum mechanics.

“If it turns out that JUNO shows our understanding is wrong, then that would be a revolution,” Patrick Huber, director of American University Virginia Tech’s Center for Neutrino Physics, said on October 17th.

[Related: The Milky Way’s ghostly neutrinos have finally been found.]

Once activated, researchers intend to focus JUNO on neutrinos emitted by a pair of nuclear power plants located about 33 miles away on either side of the subterranean facility. But cracking neutrino mass hierarchy isn’t as simple as measuring their (immensely tiny) weights—experts believe it will take about six years’ worth of experimentation and analysis to finally figure out the answers to the mass hierarchy problem.

During that time, separate, similar projects are expected to begin at facilities like the US-led IceCube observatory located at the South Pole, as well as Japan’s Super-Kamiokande lab. While China currently appears to be ahead of the game compared to their competition, the unexpected twists and turns of physics research means the first ones to find mass hierarchy answers could be anyone—provided you have an extensive working knowledge of some of the universe’s most complex sciences. Access to an underground, gigantic gleaming steel detector orb is probably a good asset, too.
 

HabitualChiller

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They stole tech cause they are not beholden to copyright or patent laws

They just some reverse engineering ass mfs
I don't see an issue with that if your primary objective is to bridge a tech gap.

I'd actually argue that it'd be fúcking stupid to NOT take that route.
 
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