This perfectly illustrates what the Democratic Party is all about.

[ORDER_66]

 

[hashmander]

You wrote ACA, when I said making abortion into federal law. Those aren’t the same things and it could have passed as a separate bill. I named five republicans who likely would have joined due to supporting the roe v. Wade decision. No need to run interference for Obama, he didn’t care to make it into law.


And let’s say this is right, that the blue dog Dems weren’t going to support it, then you see why this “vote blue this November, no matter who” backfires?

I brought up the ACA to show how the makeup of the Dem majority didn't allow for ignoring the concerns of anti-abortion folks in their own caucus at the time. And how would voting blue no matter what backfire? if people had that attitude in general a Trump would never get elected to select these justices.

those republicans wouldn't have supported making it law. susan collins and the like would say it's already settled law with the supreme court declaring it a constitutional right and there is no reason to do anything else. that's why i didn't mention any other democrat who I think would most likely would not have supported a bill like that because it's all conjecture. so susan collins who knowingly votes for anti-abortion justices is going to put her name on national law when they only campaign on not being against roe, not actually being for a separate law in congress.

Susan Collins Says No to Democrats’ Abortion-Rights Bill Because It Contains Too Many Abortion Rights

The Maine lawmaker continues to insist she is pro-choice, however.

www.vanityfair.com

In addition to saying Tuesday that she would not support abolishing the filibuster to allow the Senate to pass legislation codifying Roe v. Wade ASAP, Collins declared on Thursday that she would vote “no” on the Women’s Health Protection Act, which would establish the statutory right to an abortion and is expected to be voted on by lawmakers next week. Why? According to Collins, it just recognizes too many rights for pregnant people. “It supersedes all other federal and state laws, including the conscience protections that are in the Affordable Care Act,” she told reporters when asked about her support of the bill, adding: “It doesn’t protect the right of a Catholic hospital to not perform abortions. That right has been enshrined in law for a long time.”

this lady?

anyway, it's not like red states wouldn't challenge such a law anyway and have it overturned in a 5-4 decision by this court.

 

[mastermind]

I brought up the ACA to show how the makeup of the Dem majority didn't allow for ignoring the concerns of anti-abortion folks in their own caucus at the time.

You named one senator. I named five Republicans.

those republicans wouldn't have supported making it law. susan collins and the like would say it's already settled law with the supreme court declaring it a constitutional right and there is no reason to do anything else.

then try it and put their feet to fire. It would be nice to get those GOP members in record for their position, instead of this halfsies game that politicians play.

anyway, it's not like red states wouldn't challenge such a law anyway and have it overturned in a 5-4 decision by this court.

indeed, let’s not pass any laws.

 

[hashmander]

ok here are 7 democrats from the 111th congress who weren't pro-choice or have voting tendencies that show they wouldn't have supported it:

Ben Nelson (D-Neb), Evan Bayh (D-Ind.), Bob Casey (D-Penn.), Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.), Ted Kaufman (D-Del.) (he's a waffler) and Mark Pryor (D-Ark.)

 

[King Static X]

Of course, many of you are disingenuous. Acting as if Democrats have magic powers and can just snap their fingers and make things happen but are choosing not to.


@Payday23 Bringing up Dems could have codified Roe v Wade from 1973-1981 when there was a TON of conservative/anti-abortion Democrats in Congress back then, Nixon & Ford being President for half of that time. The ERA couldn't even get ratified. Just ridiculous

 

[hashmander]

and i'll also add that in proving why voting blue no matter what actually matters. even though those 6 or 7 democratic senators wouldn't have supported an abortion rights bill, they voted to confirm justices who wouldn't overturn roe v wade. while the republicans you claim would be all gung ho to support an abortion rights bill voted to confirm justices that would overturn roe v wade. in both cases roe v wade gave those senators cover to be pro or anti choice in a party that largely shared the opposite view.

 

[CrimsonTider]

You wrote ACA, when I said making abortion into federal law. Those aren’t the same things and it could have passed as a separate bill. I named five republicans who likely would have joined due to supporting the roe v. Wade decision. No need to run interference for Obama, he didn’t care to make it into law.


And let’s say this is right, that the blue dog Dems weren’t going to support it, then you see why this “vote blue this November, no matter who” backfires?

This man said 5 republicans would’ve voted for abortion rights

Really Shaq GIF - Really Shaq What - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[mastermind]

and i'll also add that in proving why voting blue no matter what actually matters. even though those 6 or 7 democratic senators wouldn't have supported an abortion rights bill, they voted to confirm justices who wouldn't overturn roe v wade. while the republicans you claim would be all gung ho to support an abortion rights bill voted to confirm justices that would overturn roe v wade. in both cases roe v wade gave those senators cover to be pro or anti choice in a party that largely shared the opposite view.

Two things

I never said any of them were gungho about voting for it. I just said they showed pro choice leanings. Put it up to a vote instead of saying it’s not something you are interested in achieving. Also be the president and show you can lead your party. IIRC, most of the names you mentioned eventually lost or quit within Obama’s first term, so it didn’t help to sit on their hands on this.

I care About passing law that help lives, and not this goofy “vote blue in November“ stuff that only serves the political class. Its this strange DC brain, gamification of congress, that the political class and media have put in minds.

 

[hashmander]

Two things

I never said any of them were gungho about voting for it. I just said they showed pro choice leanings. Put it up to a vote instead of saying it’s not something you are interested in achieving. Also be the president and show you can lead your party. IIRC, most of the names you mentioned eventually lost or quit within Obama’s first term, so it didn’t help to sit on their hands on this.

I care About passing law that help lives, and not this goofy “vote blue in November“ stuff that only serves the political class. Its this strange DC brain, gamification of congress, that the political class and media have put in minds.

and then when the republicans win and use the courts to do their bidding you can complain more about the democrats.

 

[mastermind]

This man said 5 republicans would’ve voted for abortion rights

Really Shaq GIF - Really Shaq What - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

this man said Roe was never under threat until Trump

 

[mastermind]

and then when the republicans win and use the courts to do their bidding you can complain more about the democrats.

Indeed, because those super smarty and savy actions you out here praising has lead too…



wait for it…



The Republicans taking over the courts and you defending the Democrats at all costs even though they failed.

 

[mastermind]

It’s funny how the biggest establishment proponents are also the biggest nihilists And have no optimism and faith.

 

[hashmander]

Indeed, because those super smarty and savy actions you out here praising has lead too…



wait for it…



The Republicans taking over the courts and you defending the Democrats at all costs even though they failed.

how many states do you think it's possible to elect people (doesn't have to be democrats) that would be solid on the issues you care about?

and if they aren't a majority, how do you prevent the other side from doing serious damage to the issues you care about since you're in the minority (seemingly permanently). you all complain when the democratic caucus has conservatives in it and the only way they get a majority is to have a caucus that has conservatives in it. the deal they are making for having this majority is that they won't get rid of things like roe v wade.

 

[hashmander]

It’s funny how the biggest establishment proponents are also the biggest nihilists And have no optimism and faith.

how would anyone have optimism and faith in america's future when people like you in the name of purity are more than willing to cede power to republicans to prove a point that the status quo is worse than allowing republicans to do their thing.

 

[mastermind]

how many states do you think it's possible to elect people (doesn't have to be democrats) that would be solid on the issues you care about?

and if they aren't a majority, how do you prevent the other side from doing serious damage to the issues you care about since you're in the minority (seemingly permanently). you all complain when the democratic caucus has conservatives in it and the only way they get a majority is to have a caucus that has conservatives in it. the deal they are making for having this majority is that they won't get rid of things like roe v wade.

I believe the entire working class of this nation could move to support working-class issues if we saw them more and not these dorks we currently fawn over. All of em too, the Bushes, Clintons, OBamas, Bidens, Reagans etc. We saw it happen for a long time in this country and then those dorks took over and pushed back.

It doesn't start at the electoral level though. It starts with unions and communities and finding that we all tend to agree on these issues, but the dorks up top aren't interested in changing things unless we force it.

how would anyone have optimism and faith in america's future when people like you in the name of purity are more than willing to cede power to republicans to prove a point that the status quo is worse than allowing republicans to do their thing.

Because we are humans. I am not going to live my life as nihilist who excepts that pain is the status quo. We can get better. Think of better to do better.