There is No Ghost in the Shell: GITS Movie Analysis

[tmonster]

so if you copy a brain, the brain and the copy will both be the same person at the same time?

that's the theoretical approach, yes

 

[NZA]

that's the theoretical approach, yes

if you hurt one, the other feels it?

 

[tmonster]

if you hurt one, the other feels it?

now that is an interesting question
the answer should be no given that pain receptors need direct stimulation before they transmit the sensation to the brain

 

[Poitier]

that's the theoretical approach, yes

Just say you don't know

 

[NZA]

now that is an interesting question
the answer should be no given that pain receptors need direct stimulation before they transmit the sensation to the brain

that is exactly what i was talking about the whole time, breh.

if much of the scifi and futurists are correct and we are "transcending" our bodies, then that would mean that somehow, some way we are moving our consciousness to something man-made. that would imply that we are not making a copy, but actually releasing ourselves from the "shackles" of our flesh-brains and truly becoming one with technology. i dont see how that can happen and as my original post said, i never see anybody explain that even though many are sure it will happen.

 

[tmonster]

that is exactly what i was talking about the whole time, breh.

if much of the scifi and futurists are correct and we are "transcending" our bodies, then that would mean that somehow, some way we are moving our consciousness to something man-made. that would imply that we are not making a copy, but actually releasing ourselves from the "shackles" of our flesh-brains and truly becoming one with technology. i dont see how that can happen and as my original post said, i never see anybody explain that even though many are sure it will happen.

I don't think that's their implication
it's more like this
we now have bionic limbs available
what happens when we get to replace all the other vital organs
then what happens when the replacement parts are even more efficient than natural ones
psychologically is this person human?
what if he no longer needs to eat? is he still human?
this is an existential concept that is fleshed out by technology (basically what the movie is doing)

 

[tmonster]

Just say you don't know

ok, "you don't know"
does that help?

 

[NZA]

I don't think that's their implication
it's more like this
we now have bionic limbs available
what happens when we get to replace all the other vital organs
then what happens when the replacement parts are even more efficient than natural ones
psychologically is this person human?
what if he no longer needs to eat? is he still human?
this is an existential concept that is fleshed out by technology (basically what the movie is doing)

im kinda moving beyond merely just this movie and talking about the logical conclusion of this line of biotech which is to completely transition an organic person into a man-made container. philosophically, i dont see that as being possible.

 

[Poitier]

The great " @tmonster " has figured out what MIT quantum scientist, Harvard neuroscientist and Oxford psychologist could not and has cracked the code of consciousness


Instead of admitting that no one knows until we actually figure out the brain fully and actually test his hypothesis, he'd rather protect his ego.

 

[tmonster]

im kinda moving beyond merely just this movie and talking about the logical conclusion of this line of biotech which is to completely transition an organic person into a man-made container.

ok, let's talk about that then

philosophically, i dont see that as being possible.

ok, what is your philosophical reason why?

 

[tmonster]

The great " @tmonster " has figured out what MIT quantum scientist, Harvard neuroscientist and Oxford psychologist could not and has cracked the code of consciousness


Instead of admitting that no one knows until we actually figure out the brain fully and actually test his hypothesis, he'd rather protect his ego.

leave the poor strawman alone
he's done nothing to you
he's innocent

 

[NZA]

ok, let's talk about that then

ok, what is your philosophical reason why?

it's simply that your consciousness is who you are and not what you do. a copy is always a copy, it is not you. your particular consciousness seems to be tied to the brain, and there appears to be no way of ever separating it from that without merely making a copy. you will always persist as you or die, but you will never leave that brain.

 

[Poitier]

it's simply that your consciousness is who you are and not what you do. a copy is always a copy, it is not you. your particular consciousness seems to be tied to the brain, and there appears to be no way of ever separating it from that without merely making a copy. you will always persist as you or die, but you will never leave that brain.

Mind, body and environment are one. You can recreate the brain but without the other two also perfectly mimic, then even the copy is not a copy. Phantom limb disease is a clear example that the brain and the body is synched, pyschosomatic disease proof of mind and body. Tmonster looks at too many youtube videos and eats everything Ray Kurzweil tells him LOL

 

[tmonster]

it's simply that your consciousness is who you are and not what you do. a copy is always a copy, it is not you. your particular consciousness seems to be tied to the brain, and there appears to be no way of ever separating it from that without merely making a copy. you will always persist as you or die, but you will never leave that brain.

now you see how easy this could have been if you just answered when I asked you

it may be addressing and you may have answered your own question already depending on your answer to the following question
what is your definition of consciousness?

because at the end of the day, that is what you really needed to say and that is what you are saying now and this is what you are ultimately (cryptically) debating. And the two researchers I posted squarely disagree with you and that is fine, given that the court is still somewhat out on what consciousness is (though it seems only the practical definition is debatable)
I for one side with their theory, given what I have learned thus far about functional and comparative neuroanatomy

 

[tmonster]

Mind, body and environment are one. You can recreate the brain but without the other two also perfectly mimic, then even the copy is not a copy. Phantom limb disease is a clear example that the brain and the body is synched, pyschosomatic disease proof of mind and body. Tmonster looks at too many youtube videos and eats everything Ray Kurzweil tells him LOL

and yet