Religion/Spirituality Theism Discussion (Abrahamic Religions, Religious Philosophy, etc.)

[MostReal]

Precept must be upon precept...Bring out another scripture outside of Genesis 6:2 to prove your belief.

I will when I get time

 

[Chez Lopez]

Abel had no line...Seth continued the line of the chosen Adam. There was a time generation down that they were supposed to marry within their own nation. The sons of God in Genesis were the first Israelites so to speak...Israel pronounced Ya-shar-ahla essentially means "He is prince of God's power". You break that down further you can say that is means sons of God. The line of the sons of God never died off from the Flood..it was preserved trhough Noah and went through his son Shem and was ended with Jacob who fathered the Israelites...the princes of God's power.

Yes line of SETH. Abel was murdered. That was my mistake. Israel doesn mean sons of god however, Israel breaks down into three Hebrew words: Ya-Shara-Al, which basically means Ya prevails as Alaheim.

the sons of God is very specific, ben Alaheim.

Daniel 3

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied , and rose up in haste , and spake , and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25 He answered and said , Lo, I see four men loose , walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

The Aramaic of the phrase is used here, Bar Alahh, The direct translation would be Ben Alaheim. I am aware that Aramaic uses the form of alah as a title for Yahuah here, but that is a topic for a whole other thread. Man I love bible study.

 

[Marvel]

sorry that's incorrect. That's why I love bible study because we can get to the meat of knowledge. The bible also states in the book of Jude here:

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

The book of Jude here states how the angels 'kept not their first estate' which means they left heaven and were punished. But angels left heaven all the time, we know this from Jacobs vision of the ladder. So why were they punished? for the same reason as Sodom and Gomorrah were punished, for the sin of fornication, which is why the next verse gives them as an example of the type of sin and the type of punishment. These angels sinned BEFORE satan was cast out of heaven and were locked away in sheol first to await judgement.

The verse says they are not given over to marriage and they do not marry, it doesn say they cant. Remember that angels are beings of free will also and have the ability to transgress, this was their sin.

Do you know the meaning of angel in the greek when Paul wrote it? It simply means messenger. The first estate was our original state of being in the secret place of the Most High which is the knowledge, wisdom and understanding. That is the first estate that was given to Adam but he broke the commandments given to given to was removed from that first spiritual first estate. That is the reason why we all reserved for judgment as his descendants.

Psalm 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

That is for those us that abide in the secret place and stay til the end will be pardoned from judgement because we are in the shadow of the Almighty...meaning we are covered.

Paul wrote the letters to be broken down by wisdom, not by unlearned men.

2 Peter 1
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

^^^ Manvel is right angels are messengers of GOD. Do you know how many times in the bible the Lord sent a angel down to deliver a message? They are here to give messages to us or to record what we are doing (read Job post below)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

The book of Jude here states how the angels 'kept not their first estate' which means they left heaven and were punished. But angels left heaven all the time, we know this from Jacobs vision of the ladder. So why were they punished? for the same reason as Sodom and Gomorrah were punished, for the sin of fornication, which is why the next verse gives them as an example of the type of sin and the type of punishment. These angels sinned BEFORE satan was cast out of heaven and were locked away in sheol first to await judgement.

The verse says they are not given over to marriage and they do not marry, it doesn say they cant. Remember that angels are beings of free will also and have the ability to transgress, this was their sin.

The angles were punished because 1/3 of them sinned by following Lucifer rather than GOD. Lucifer wanted to be "like the MOST HIGH"


Isaiah 14:13

For you have said in your heart, I (Satan) will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the farthest sides of the north:

And Angels do not have free will. THE MOST HIGH IS ALWAYS IN CONTROL. They can't do nothing without GOD'S permission. Satan have to check in with GOD first too.
JOB CHAPTER 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

 

[Marvel]

Yes line of SETH. Abel was murdered. That was my mistake. Israel doesn mean sons of god however, Israel breaks down into three Hebrew words: Ya-Shara-Al, which basically means Ya prevails as Alaheim.

the sons of God is very specific, ben Alaheim.

Daniel 3

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied , and rose up in haste , and spake , and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25 He answered and said , Lo, I see four men loose , walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

The Aramaic of the phrase is used here, Bar Alahh, The direct translation would be Ben Alaheim. I am aware that Aramaic uses the form of alah as a title for Yahuah here, but that is a topic for a whole other thread. Man I love bible study.

I know what Israel means bro...I was just showing the sons of God and the Israelties are the same people just regenerated. Their line never died off. That was all I was showing.

 

[Chez Lopez]

Do you know the meaning of angel in the greek when Paul wrote it? It simply means messenger. The first estate was our original state of being in the secret place of the Most High which is the knowledge, wisdom and understanding. That is the first estate that was given to Adam but he broke the commandments given to given to was removed from that first spiritual first estate. That is the reason why we all reserved for judgment.



That is for those us that abide in the secret place and stay til the end will be pardoned from judgement because we are in the shadow of the Almighty...meaning we are covered.

Paul wrote the letters to be broken down by wisdom, not by unlearned men.

Um...Paul didn write the book of Jude...Jude did. And none of the original books of the bible were written in greek, they were written in Hebrew. The Hebrew word for angel is malak. This word means several things that all correspond- king, messenger, angel, teacher, prophet. These words correspond because in ancient times kings were often counciled by angels, who gave them prophecies (see king david, alexander the great, nebuchadnezzer etc) The kings were also teachers (see king Solomon) and the angels were also messengers(see the book of Ezekiel). The Hebrew language is a very complex language with the same word used for several different interpretations, but all with corresponding definitions. malak is also the name of a fallen angel who was worshipen in canaan by the Israelites (often pronounced as molech) which further illustrates my point abt angels, kings, messengers. cheers!

 

[Marvel]

^^^ Manvel is right angels are messengers of GOD. Do you know how many times in the bible the Lord sent a angel down to deliver a message? They are here to give messages to us or to record what we are doing (read Job post below)


The angles were punished because 1/3 of them sinned by following Lucifer rather than GOD. Lucifer wanted to be "like the MOST HIGH"


Isaiah 14:13

For you have said in your heart, I (Satan) will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the farthest sides of the north:

And Angels do not have free will. THE MOST HIGH IS ALWAYS IN CONTROL. They can't do nothing without GOD'S permission. Satan have to check in with GOD first too.
JOB CHAPTER 1
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Lucifer means lightbearer and Lucifer is identified as a man. It is also no coincidence that Illuminati means the same thing. These are some cocky people. That is the elite group of men that Satan is using. That is why our parents unknowingly called the so-called white man back in the 60s and 70s...The Man. Even though we know that "The Man" refers to the entire race of Edom and not just one man.

Isaiah 14
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms

The man that caused the earth to tremble and shake kingdoms was Esau later called Edom. According to the verse, this is man that can be seen and identified. Afterall, the whole world believes in Satan but they cannot identify the man that Satan is dealing directly with.

Genesis 36
1 Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.

 

[gho3st]

Have you nikkas ever heard of culture exportation?



Agnostic Atheists = hive mind......

 

[Marvel]

Um...Paul didn write the book of Jude...Jude did. And none of the original books of the bible were written in greek, they were written in Hebrew. The Hebrew word for angel is malak. This word means several things that all correspond- king, messenger, angel, teacher, prophet. These words correspond because in ancient times kings were often counciled by angels, who gave them prophecies (see king david, alexander the great, nebuchadnezzer etc) The kings were also teachers (see king Solomon) and the angels were also messengers(see the book of Ezekiel). The Hebrew language is a very complex language with the same word used for several different interpretations, but all with corresponding definitions. malak is also the name of a fallen angel who was worshipen in canaan by the Israelites (often pronounced as molech) which further illustrates my point abt angels, kings, messengers. cheers!

The meaning is still the same in jude and all other letters. Only a chosen nation were made messengers of righteousness. The Messiah said plainly that angels of God cannot be given in marriage. Your belief is in direct contradiction to what he taught. You nor I are greater than the Messiah. I will stick with what the Messiah said and not another doctrine of man. There are examples for everything in the scriptures. There is nowhere in the scriptures where the Most High brought a woman to one of his eternal angels. He always set up man on earth to have children with women. It is the order he set from the beginning. The Most High is in complete control of Satan...so how much more a lower ranking angel than him.

 

[Chez Lopez]

well in order to get back on topic ill have to point out this verse:

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

our original point was genesis 6:2 where the sons of God is misinterpreted as the line of seth. From your own quote you will see that the sons of god were angels.

But to address what was said about the word Adam.

As I stated above the Hebrew language uses the same word to point out several corresponding definitions. the word Adam means man, but it also means red, ruddy and earthen soil. The Edomites were named Edom because in Hebrew vowels don exist and are therefore interchangeable, as I pointed out in the seraph, sharaf, sheriff post. So Edom means Adam, they are the same word. the word also means red so when they are saying adam, the mean Redman, and adam who's seed gave birth to mankind. The term man, mankind, red, earthen soil, and Edom are all the same word, Adam.

Also it is a mistake that the edomites were white people. Edom means red, but not like we think of as red today. As stated the term adam or adamah means earthen soil, red as in soil. There is also another word to describe the beauty of king david, ruddy, this word in Hebrew is Admonaiy, from the root word adam. So edom/esau wasn white pale or pink, he was a darker soil color red, like earthen soil. This is the reason we are commanded not to hate edomites in deutoronmy, because they are our brothers too.

Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

The Messiah said plainly that angels of God cannot be given in marriage. Your belief is in direct contradiction to what he taught. You nor I are greater than the Messiah. I will stick with what the Messiah said and not another doctrine of man. There are examples for everything in the scriptures. There is nowhere in the scriptures where the Most High brought a woman to one of this eternal angels.

I just don't see how can he call Jesus a liar. Christ clearly says Angels don't do marry/have sex and and he was talking to the disciples when he made that statement. They were confused as well thats why Jesus said this before he made that statement

Matthew 22:29-30

Jesus answered and said unto them, You do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.


So now you turn around and said Jesus is lying? . Brother just say "I don't understand", because that verse is clear as day and aint no dancing around that. And then we have ALL THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE angels coming on earth to either save someone, or cause destruction. Show me other scriptures in the bible angels were coming down sleeping with people creating super beings

1 Kings 22:20-23

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


^^^^ Angels aint floating around looking for p*ssy. They have specific tasks they have to complete.

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
.

GOD called his chosen need the "sons of GOD" and he also called Angels "sons of GOD". If GOD said angels can't have sex/marry then its clear which one he's talking about and thats the actual men of the Holy lineage. Unless you are calling Jesus, GOD'S only begotten son a lie

 

[Chez Lopez]

"There is nowhere in the scriptures where the Most High brought a woman to one of this eternal angels."

The angels are spirits, and the Spirit of Yahuah came unto Miriam to beget Yahusha the Messiah. So theres one example.

But more importantly the Name of the Messiah is not jesus. Its a Hebrew word- Yahusha. The Messiah and Yahuah the Father did not speak greek, jesus is a greek name. Please stop calling Him jesus. That's why we have bible study, to interpret scripture. And there is no private interpretation. cheers fellas.

 

[Marvel]

well in order to get back on topic ill have to point out this verse:

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

our original point was genesis 6:2 where the sons of God is misinterpreted as the line of seth. From your own quote you will see that the sons of god were angels.

But to address what was said about the word Adam.

As I stated above the Hebrew language uses the same word to point out several corresponding definitions. the word Adam means man, but it also means red, ruddy and earthen soil. The Edomites were named Edom because in Hebrew vowels don exist and are therefore interchangeable, as I pointed out in the seraph, sharaf, sheriff post. So Edom means Adam, they are the same word. the word also means red so when they are saying adam, the mean Redman, and adam who's seed gave birth to mankind. The term man, mankind, red, earthen soil, and Edom are all the same word, Adam.

Also it is a mistake that the edomites were white people. Edom means red, but not like we think of as red today. As stated the term adam or adamah means earthen soil, red as in soil. There is also another word to describe the beauty of king david, ruddy, this word in Hebrew is Admonaiy, from the root word adam. So edom/esau wasn white pale or pink, he was a darker soil color red, like earthen soil. This is the reason we are commanded not to hate edomites in deutoronmy, because they are our brothers too.

Deuteronomy 23:7 KJV
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.

You do realize that when men from the chosen line dies and is back in the spirit world, they are in the presence of the Heavenly Father. Those are the sons of God that were present before him. Just like Moses and Elijah were able to come down and communicate with Jesus and go back up into the spirit world in the presences of the Heavenly Father.

Why is the word man ishi in the hebrew through the rest of the old testament. That shows you once again that you are unlearned. the name Adam was a nomen omen. He came from the ground and will return back to the ground. All the first generation of men..the Adamites were called Adam which why the word man was used a subsitute word for the hebrew word adam

Genesis 3
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

If you don't believe the so-called white man are the Edomites...then that is on you. The Most High definitely not dealing with you.

That word in the hebrew is not the same as hate...The word abhor means to set aside as abominable. If we abhorred him...set aside as abominable there would be no way that we could have him as our servant and his their women as concubines in the kingdom. When something is set aside as abominable it cannot be in your presence. You should know that hate and abhor are two different words with two different meanings in the hebrew...nice try

 

[Chez Lopez]

Not sure why you fellas are misunderstanding me. The church often misinterprets the same spiritual events, attempting to make them into material events that are easy to understand. The angels transgressed and were punished for fornicating. Ive given the evidence for that. The scriptures say that angels do not marry or take wives, not cannot marry or take wives. If you disobey an order from Yahuah then there is a punishment. the verse in Job u gave was from before satan was cast out of heaven, thus sons of god means angels. satan is no longer allowed in heaven and was cast out, so since at that point he was still in heaven with the other sons of god, it must have been before his fall.

I am aware that this is a hard concept but there are evil angels and the evil angels transgressed the commandment of Yahuah not to take wives. They were then punished for it. This is a hard concept but completely backed up by all of scripture.

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

How can angels be punished for something they can't do? Jesus said angels "do not marry". The sin the angels committed was following Satan and it was a big war in heaven and GOD cast the devil and 1/3 of the angels to hell (earth). Has nothing to do with sex and everything with "wanting to be greater than The MOST HIGH"

^^^ It didn't say "a angel came down and had sex with Mary".

An angel came to Joseph and Mary and told them she would have a son. The angel said "a virgin shall be with child and shall bring forth a son and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is , God with us.

According to you in Genesis some angels was floating around, saw beautiful woman and decided to have sex/marry them. This isn't close to being the same thing. For one we know that angels serve a purpose. They travel around destroying, prophecies, or assisting GOD's people. Angels are not floating around looking for the finest girls to skeet in. The angel warned Mary & Joseph about the miracle GOD would perform. And if what you are saying is correct then Christ would have been a giant and nowhere throughout history is it recorded Christ was the size of a giant philistine. That's the area where the giants roam. You are tripping hard.