The UFO/UAP disclosure thread

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

spy planes

 

[HoloGraphic]

Been watching this guy since the hearing, Dr. Steven Greer.



Basically theres a shadow government that deals with aliens. They have man made Ufos. They, humans, abduct people in order to false flag an alien conflict.

They also have scalar technology, which exists in the time dimension and moves faster than light. Tesla knew about this technology. Im giving you the cliffnotes look it up for more information.

More stories I couldnt embed

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Has @Rhakim posted since the hearing?

Can't wait to read the back and forth between him and the other posters

Grusch said he himself has never seen any UAPs or nonhuman biologics

@Rhakim Your thoughts about the hearing today brother?

I've been on vacation and didn't watch, but from the very little I heard, it sounded like nothing new was said at all.

You think all 3 of those dudes are cappin? They gain nothing from making these claims when you look into their backgrounds.

I don't think any of them are necessarily lying, in part because nothing they've said is very special.

Fravor quite clearly was the victim of an optical illusion while under heavy suggestion that he was being sent to investigate a UFO. That has been explained in detail. His encounter perfectly matches someone viewing a stationary object at 11,000 foot altitude while believing it was close to sea level, and the parallax illusion matches everything from there with a phantom motion trace at the end.

It's hard to tell what Graves saw, because he keeps bringing up "classified" rather than explaining crucial details. But the video that was released is just a normal plane at a distance with lens glare artifact as the camera rotates.

Grusch hasn't seen anything, he just believes the wrong goofballs. And he seems mentally off.

 

[MushroomX]

The Public just ain't ready to find out that there is a species with more Adv. Tech, and doesn't believe in any sort of Higher Being.

 

[Orbital-Fetus]

Fravor quite clearly was the victim of an optical illusion while under heavy suggestion that he was being sent to investigate a UFO.

 

[Micky Mikey]

Very interesting doc made in the 50's. The flight descriptions of these craft detailed in the doc corroberate with a lot of modern descriptions.

Note: This was made during a time when there wasn't the stigma attached to it.

 

[Micky Mikey]

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Fravor quite clearly was the victim of an optical illusion while under heavy suggestion that he was being sent to investigate a UFO. That has been explained in detail. His encounter perfectly matches someone viewing a stationary object at 11,000 foot altitude while believing it was close to sea level, and the parallax illusion matches everything from there with a phantom motion trace at the end.

I'm not a UFO guy, but this is just doesn't jive with what we've heard about the incident. There was 2 different jets each with 2 occupants, with Fravor's plane approaching the object and the other plane watching from higher up. So 4 different witnesses from 2 different vantage points. Radar data from both the jets as well as the the carrier that was tracking the UFO from afar matched their visual accounts.
I can't say I know what happened, or if everyone involved is telling the truth, but if the situation was described accurately then the parallax illusion would only account for Fravor and his copilot's account and not the matching account from the other jet, nor the matching radar data. I'm not saying I believe there was aliens, but it seems to me like something was there.

I've read about these radar reflector balloons, which explain away most of Grave's stories about "clear spheres with dark grey or black cubes inside."

Are Some Of The UFOs Navy Pilots Are Encountering Actually Airborne Radar Reflectors?

Submarine-launched, radar reflector-toting balloons used to stimulate enemy air defenses can be traced back to a Cold War era Skunk Works program.

www.thedrive.com

This could also explain the strange radar behavior seen during the Nimitz incident, but it doesn't explain the eye witness accounts of the 4 pilots.

 

[Brehcepticon]

The 20's are wild, brehs.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I'm not a UFO guy, but this is just doesn't jive with what we've heard about the incident. There was 2 different jets each with 2 occupants, with Fravor's plane approaching the object and the other plane watching from higher up. So 4 different witnesses from 2 different vantage points. Radar data from both the jets as well as the the carrier that was tracking the UFO from afar matched their visual accounts.

Several things need to be clarified about those claims:


a) There are zero radar accounts that match Fravor's visual account. NONE. We need to make that absolutely clear, because the false claim that Fravor's account is backed up by radar is made over and over again. It's simply not true - nothing in the visual claims was backed up on radar at all.

Yes, the ship radar operators saw something in the area, which they claimed was a UAP and sent Fravor to investigate. But there isn't a single movement that Fravor reported which was verified by ship radar, nor did he report seeing anything on his own radar. The ship's radar actually had quite poor resolution relative to the incident and couldn't even discern movement at that distance, all it could see is which sectors had an object in them. Once Fravor and the other jet arrived on scene, their radar blips and the UAP all filled the same pixel on the screen.



b) Because Fravor assumed the object was 20,000 feet below him rather than just 7,000 or so feet below him, all of his assumptions about its movement were subject to a massive parallax effect.




It's pretty easy to understand parallax when you actually try, but hard to envision how it impacts witness reports. The issue is that when our eyes are confused about where an object is relative to its background, things appear to move which aren't actually moving. Parallax is one of the main issues causing many of the current "UFO" sightings.

Here are some simple examples. I recommend watching all of them if you want to understand the phenomenon in relation to current events.











Fravor's account perfectly matches what one would see in parallax. When he descends, he believes the object is rising up to meet him at the same speed, when he circles clockwise, he believes its circling counterclockwise in an exact match of his movement, when he rushes it, he thinks it rushes him. These movements, especially the reverse-circle, make absolutely zero sense if it was a real moving craft - why would any craft perfectly mirror his movements in reverse? But they are the EXACT perceived movements that someone would see if they were looking at a stationary object and believed it was 2x-3x further away than it really was. Just like is shown in the videos, the perceived motion of parallax is always the exact opposite of the observer's movements.

Doesn't that seem like an incredible coincidence to you? Why would Fravor just happen to report the object moving in the exact way that someone subject to parallax would report it moving?



c) We only have the reports of 3 witnesses (the other guy in Fravor's plane has never spoken about the incident and we don't know what his perspective is). But if the other guy in Fravor's plane also mistakenly believed the object started near the surface of the water (especially likely since Fravor saw it first and told him it was near the water, and the power of suggestion is powerful), then he would have been victim to the same optical illusion that Fravor saw.



d) Fravor immediately reported to the other jet that the object was next to the water, which they believed, so under his influence they made the same optical illusion errors of parallax that he did. At several points, the optical illusion the other jet would have seen matches the optical illusion Fravor would have seen. This is especially true because Fravor was reporting everything he saw in real time, and then repeated his observations to them afterwards, so their natural tendency is going to be to gravitate to his account. The testimony of the other 2 witnesses does differ from Fravor's testimony in several key ways though - for instance, when Fravor was descending in a circle they report a very different view of its apparent movement, because at that point their parallax effect and his were different because their movement was different. Isn't that a strange coincidence, that the accounts of the two jets differ at the exact point where parallax would cause them to differ?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I've read about these radar reflector balloons, which explain away most of Grave's stories about "clear spheres with dark grey or black cubes inside."

Are Some Of The UFOs Navy Pilots Are Encountering Actually Airborne Radar Reflectors?

Submarine-launched, radar reflector-toting balloons used to stimulate enemy air defenses can be traced back to a Cold War era Skunk Works program.

www.thedrive.com

This could also explain the strange radar behavior seen during the Nimitz incident, but it doesn't explain the eye witness accounts of the 4 pilots.

Yeah, I think that balloons with funny radar effects can explain the vast majority of sightings and especially this one. Here's how I read the sequence of events.


1. Nimitz radar operators see random objects blipping on and off their screen, sometimes appearing in wildly different places. They interpret this as instantaneous movements, rather than realizing that the objects are just designed to reflect radar inconsistently. Having been primed to think about UFOs all week due to the "unexplained blips" (most of which where just drifting at constant speed by their own admission), they send Fravor to investigate a UFO.

2. Fravor and the other jet rush to the scene primed to see something "weird", and their attention is drawn to a disturbance on the surface. This disturbance could have been a whale or school of fish, but there's substantial reason to believe it may have been a submerging submarine. As your link points out, submarines release these balloons, and there was a US sub doing classified test operations in that exact sector at the time. Or it could have been an enemy sub trying to test capabilities by fukking around with a American drill.

3. Since his attention is drawn to the surface of the water, Fravor doesn't see the balloon at all until his jet passes over the point where the balloon and the disturbance align in a straight line with his view. Since he doesn't know the size of the balloon and has no context to gauge distance, he falsely concludes that the balloon is near the disturbance, a natural human fault of perception. He tells the other crew that the object is at the surface, which leads them to make the same error of perception since they have no other context to determine how far below them it is. From that point on, all of their perceptions are distorted by a false assumption of where the object started and a false assumption of its corresponding size.

4. Fravor reports the object as perfectly matching all of his movements in reverse, exactly as someone observing a still object in parallax would. The other jet sees some of their own parallax effect, and naturally gravitates towards Fravor's account a little bit, but also differs from his account in several key ways because their own parallax isn't the same as Fravor's parallax.

5. Fravor ends the interaction by rushing straight at the object, which he falsely interprets to include the object rushing towards him because he mistakenly believed it was 2x-3x further away than it actually was. When he speeds by it, it likely pops, because a close encounter with an F-18 Super Hornet at high speed is too much for most balloons. Fravor's eyes had been tracking the perceived motion of the object at high speed, and when it disappears he interprets that as it "instantaneously" flew away, another optical illusion no different than when someone fake throws a ball and you mind falsely tracks the movement it thinks the ball made out of his hand, when in fake the ball is still there.

6. Radar operators see a new object appear on their screen 60km away, and falsely conclude with zero supporting evidence that it must be the same object, even though numerous similar objects have been blipping on and off their radar screens all week long. What evidence did they have to conclude that the new object had any relation at all to the object they were previously tracking? As I pointed out, their resolution at that distance was terrible, they had literally zero information about the objects in question other than that they were both objects.



Yes, a few minor coincidences had to align to produce the sighting. But in decades of military operations, eventually you are going to have those coincidences align once, and that makes the incident "exciting". The vast majority of military UAP incidents are rather boring because they only involve one of the mistakes, and so they're more easily explained away. This incident involved four errors that compounded each other (the initial radar glitches, Fravor's parallax illusion, the other jet believing Fravor's account and thus falling to the same illusion, and the misattribution of the final radar blip). One person will say, "What are the chances of all four mistakes happening in one account?" And the answer is, after hundreds of thousands of military flights, eventually you're going to have one incident where multiple mistakes are made at the same time, and that's what we have here.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

I find comfort in knowing that the unexplainable is actually explainable

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Yeah, I think that balloons with funny radar effects can explain the vast majority of sightings and especially this one. Here's how I read the sequence of events.


1. Nimitz radar operators see random objects blipping on and off their screen, sometimes appearing in wildly different places. They interpret this as instantaneous movements, rather than realizing that the objects are just designed to reflect radar inconsistently. Having been primed to think about UFOs all week due to the "unexplained blips" (most of which where just drifting at constant speed by their own admission), they send Fravor to investigate a UFO.

2. Fravor and the other jet rush to the scene primed to see something "weird", and their attention is drawn to a disturbance on the surface. This disturbance could have been a whale or school of fish, but there's substantial reason to believe it may have been a submerging submarine. As your link points out, submarines release these balloons, and there was a US sub doing classified test operations in that exact sector at the time. Or it could have been an enemy sub trying to test capabilities by fukking around with a American drill.

3. Since his attention is drawn to the surface of the water, Fravor doesn't see the balloon at all until his jet passes over the point where the balloon and the disturbance align in a straight line with his view. Since he doesn't know the size of the balloon and has no context to gauge distance, he falsely concludes that the balloon is near the disturbance, a natural human fault of perception. He tells the other crew that the object is at the surface, which leads them to make the same error of perception since they have no other context to determine how far below them it is. From that point on, all of their perceptions are distorted by a false assumption of where the object started and a false assumption of its corresponding size.

4. Fravor reports the object as perfectly matching all of his movements in reverse, exactly as someone observing a still object in parallax would. The other jet sees some of their own parallax effect, and naturally gravitates towards Fravor's account a little bit, but also differs from his account in several key ways because their own parallax isn't the same as Fravor's parallax.

5. Fravor ends the interaction by rushing straight at the object, which he falsely interprets to include the object rushing towards him because he mistakenly believed it was 2x-3x further away than it actually was. When he speeds by it, it likely pops, because a close encounter with an F-18 Super Hornet at high speed is too much for most balloons. Fravor's eyes had been tracking the perceived motion of the object at high speed, and when it disappears he interprets that as it "instantaneously" flew away, another optical illusion no different than when someone fake throws a ball and you mind falsely tracks the movement it thinks the ball made out of his hand, when in fake the ball is still there.

6. Radar operators see a new object appear on their screen 60km away, and falsely conclude with zero supporting evidence that it must be the same object, even though numerous similar objects have been blipping on and off their radar screens all week long. What evidence did they have to conclude that the new object had any relation at all to the object they were previously tracking? As I pointed out, their resolution at that distance was terrible, they had literally zero information about the objects in question other than that they were both objects.



Yes, a few minor coincidences had to align to produce the sighting. But in decades of military operations, eventually you are going to have those coincidences align once, and that makes the incident "exciting". The vast majority of military UAP incidents are rather boring because they only involve one of the mistakes, and so they're more easily explained away. This incident involved four errors that compounded each other (the initial radar glitches, Fravor's parallax illusion, the other jet believing Fravor's account and thus falling to the same illusion, and the misattribution of the final radar blip). One person will say, "What are the chances of all four mistakes happening in one account?" And the answer is, after hundreds of thousands of military flights, eventually you're going to have one incident where multiple mistakes are made at the same time, and that's what we have here.

That makes sense. I was under the impression that the second jet was much further away from Fravor's jet. If their account doesn't line up with his though, then it doesn't even matter.

Still, one thing doesn't fit. There are claims from the radar techs on the Nimitz that they saw a 10 minute video that backs the accounts from Fravor. Not the approach incident, but the types of maneuvers the Tic Tac made. I believe one of them said he was viewing the object from the Nimitz with just binoculars as well. The Nimitz being mostly stationary wouldn't have anything like the parallax effect to explain for their claims.

I think the best explanation is a bit of what you said with the radar data being misinterpreted, mixed with some people not telling the truth, maybe even some classified military tech that's also causing weird radar effects. It would explained why the suits came in and cleared everything out, and why the government seems so lax about the situation.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Still, one thing doesn't fit. There are claims from the radar techs on the Nimitz that they saw a 10 minute video that backs the accounts from Fravor. Not the approach incident, but the types of maneuvers the Tic Tac made.

What maneuvers did the tictac make that would have been extraordinary on radar? Nothing the object did in front of Fravor was really extraordinary until it disappeared - until then, the only suprising thing was that it was "moving without visible propulsion", but the basic movements were no different than Fravor's own jet.


On a side note, also related to radar from that account:

we had nothing on our radars and were unaware of what we were going to see when we arrived.

We returned to Nimitz and mentioned what we had witnessed to one of my crews who were getting ready to launch. It was that crew that took the now famous approximately 90 second video that was released by the USG in 2017. What is not seen is the Radar tape that showed the jamming of the APG-73 radar in the aircraft

Those comments suggest that they never observed anything from plane radar. If Fravor could verify the movements of the object from his radar, he would have mentioned it. The quotes above are literally every single mention of radar in the testimony.

Also, the idea that some NHI would be jamming radar is funny to me. We're supposed to believe that these UFOs are fukking around a US military exercise (why?), repeatedly showing up on ship radar, repeatedly showing up in front of jets, playing games right in front of Fravor....but also going to the trouble to jam the humans' very specific plane radar technology? Why? That doesn't make sense for beings that can supposedly violate physics, move between dimensions, and had no problem being seen. Jamming plane radar is a human technology thing to do, not an alien technology thing to do.

I believe one of them said he was viewing the object from the Nimitz with just binoculars as well. The Nimitz being mostly stationary wouldn't have anything like the parallax effect to explain for their claims.

This sounds like someone is BSing. Again, from the testimony:

My wingman joined up and we proceeded towards a contact to the west of our CAP (Combat Air Patrol) point. The CAP point is where we would hold prior to commencing our training runs, roughly 40 miles South of the ship.

As we turned back towards our CAP point, roughly 60 miles east

So the CAP point is 40 miles south of the ship, and the incident occurred 60 miles west of the CAP point. So according to Pythagoras, the object would have been over 70 miles away. Though it could vary if Fravor's directions are imprecise. How good are military binoculars to discern the maneuvers of a small white object at 70 miles? I'm not really sure, but I've never heard anyone claim to have had a visual. If they did, why wouldn't they have tried that/reported that before sending Fravor to intercept in the first place?

I think the best explanation is a bit of what you said with the radar data being misinterpreted, mixed with some people not telling the truth, maybe even some classified military tech that's also causing weird radar effects. It would explained why the suits came in and cleared everything out, and why the government seems so lax about the situation.

Either classified tech fukking with radar, or foreign tech fukking with radar and the fact that we know about its capabilities is classified.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

What maneuvers did the tictac make that would have been extraordinary on radar? Nothing the object did in front of Fravor was really extraordinary until it disappeared - until then, the only suprising thing was that it was "moving without visible propulsion", but the basic movements were no different than Fravor's own jet.


On a side note, also related to radar from that account:




Those comments suggest that they never observed anything from plane radar. If Fravor could verify the movements of the object from his radar, he would have mentioned it. The quotes above are literally every single mention of radar in the testimony.

Also, the idea that some NHI would be jamming radar is funny to me. We're supposed to believe that these UFOs are fukking around a US military exercise (why?), repeatedly showing up on ship radar, repeatedly showing up in front of jets, playing games right in front of Fravor....but also going to the trouble to jam the humans' very specific plane radar technology? Why? That doesn't make sense for beings that can supposedly violate physics, move between dimensions, and had no problem being seen. Jamming plane radar is a human technology thing to do, not an alien technology thing to do.





This sounds like someone is BSing. Again, from the testimony:




So the CAP point is 40 miles south of the ship, and the incident occurred 60 miles west of the CAP point. So according to Pythagoras, the object would have been over 70 miles away. Though it could vary if Fravor's directions are imprecise. How good are military binoculars to discern the maneuvers of a small white object at 70 miles? I'm not really sure, but I've never heard anyone claim to have had a visual. If they did, why wouldn't they have tried that/reported that before sending Fravor to intercept in the first place?





Either classified tech fukking with radar, or foreign tech fukking with radar and the fact that we know about its capabilities is classified.

From this article The Navy UFO Witnesses Speak Out Years Later

“When they’d show up on radar,” Voorhis says, “I’d get the relative bearing and then run up to the bridge and look through a pair of heavily magnified binoculars in the direction the returns were coming from.” Describing what he saw during the daytime, Voorhis says the objects were too far off to make out any distinguishing features, however, he could clearly see something moving erratically in the distance.

“I couldn’t make out details, but they'd just be hovering there, then all of a sudden, in an instant, they’d dart off to another direction and stop again,” Voorhis says. “At night, they’d give off a kind of a phosphorus glow and were a little easier to see than in the day.”

Like many of the other sailors aboard the USS Princeton, former Petty Officer 3rd Class Jason Turner knew something was up, but didn’t exactly know what had been going on inside the CIC. It was only during a chance encounter while delivering supplies to the ship’s Signal Exploitation Space that Turner found himself being another unwitting witness to the Nimitz’s UFO event.

A video playing on one of the console monitors immediately caught Turner’s eye. In it, the “Tic Tac” performed a number of seemingly impossible maneuvers, not seen in the brief clip released in 2017. Turner described what he saw in the Nimitz Encounters documentary:

“This thing was going berserk, like making turns. It’s incredible the amount of g forces that it would put on a human. It made a maneuver, like they were chasing it straight on, it was going with them, then this thing stopped turning, just gone. In an instant. The video you see now, that’s just a small snippet in the beginning of the whole video. But this thing, it was so much more than what you see in this video.”

Voorhis tells Popular Mechanics that he, too, saw a much longer and clearer version of the ATFLIR video through the ship’s Top Secret LAN network. “I definitely saw video that was roughly 8 to 10 minutes long and a lot more clear,” Voorhis says.

Did what he saw resemble any type of conventional aircraft?

“Umm, no!” he says with a laugh. “In the video I saw, you got a good sense of how the pilot was having a difficult time trying to keep up with this thing. It kept making tight, right angle turns.”

But also in the same article

Speaking at the McMenamin’s UFO festival this past May, Fravor admonished some of the “other witness” accounts, saying only the four pilots involved ever personally saw the “Tic Tac,” that no one was asked to sign non-disclosure agreements [NDA], and that “men in suits” never showed up on the ships.

During an October appearance on Joe Rogan’s podcast, Fravor said, “There’s still groups of people making stuff up, like someone came out on ours and was talking about, he’s like, I saw the whole video, the whole video is like 10 minutes long and it was doing all this. That’s bullshyt.”

At the same time, its 5 people vs Fravor, and their accounts all support each others and Fravor's. I don't know what to think about it, but I definitely don't think it's NHIs.