JOHN.KOOL
Manchester United/Atletico Madrid
Forget i said anything
The Russian Invasion of Ukraine has Begun. Its on.
- Thread starter ☑︎#VoteDemocrat
- Start date
Forget i said anything
Futuristic Eskimo
All Star
When you will be ready to stop being a harassed oppressed bytch, say no to buying Jordans and finally leave your zip code to build a great black community, look for another country. Cause you certainly won't be allowed to do shyt in Murica.
Africa seems like a great continent to start building greatness. Oh, you don't want to live in Tanzania...That conflict between pride and comfort of Jordans.
As for the conflict in Ukraine, I see that you are very curious and can read wikipedia. Here is a couple of interesting facts for you. Do you know that if you put a Ukrainian and a Russian person in the same room with me I won't be able to tell which is one after ten minutes of speaking with them?
That's right, Sambo, the reason for that is that Ukraine population are Russians.
So when a second class citizen from the White House says something about our dealings in Ukraine, that sounds pretty strange to us.
You got a lot to worry about bruh, let white people handle this. This is not your war.
Still waiting on that invasion fakkit.
UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT DISSOLVES PARLIAMENT
By JIM HEINTZ
— Aug. 25, 2014 4:34 PM EDT
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KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's president on Monday dissolved parliament and called for early elections in October as his country continues to battle a pro-Russian insurgency in its eastern regions.
In a statement on his website, President Petro Poroshenko said snap elections would be held Oct. 26.
Poroshenko said the dissolution, which was prefigured by the breakup of the majority coalition last month, was in line with "the expectations of the vast majority of the citizens of Ukraine" and called it a move toward "cleansing" the parliament.
Many members of parliament "are allies of the militants-separatists," Poroshenko said, referring to the pro-Russian rebels who have battled government troops in the country's east since April.
The Party of Regions, which is backed by much of the country's industrial, Russian-speaking east and was supported by pro-Russian ex-president Viktor Yanukovych, was the largest party in parliament before Yanukovych fled the country in the wake of massive protests in February and still has a substantial presence.
Most of these members "accepted dictatorial laws that took the lives of the Heaven's Hundred," he said, using the common term for those killed during the protests against Yanukovych, many by sniper fire.
He emphasized the need to elect new leaders from the war-torn areas of east Ukraine in order to represent the region in the new government. It wasn't clear how it would be possible to conduct elections at such short notice in Donetsk and Luhansk, where hundreds of thousands have fled their homes and shelling between rebel and government forces continues daily.
Over the past month, Ukrainian forces have made substantial inroads against pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine, taking control of several sizeable towns and cities that had been under rebel control since April, when the clashes began.
But the advances have come at a high cost — more than 2,000 civilians reportedly killed and at least 726 Ukrainian servicemen. There is no independent figure for the number of rebel dead, although Ukrainian authorities said Monday that 250 rebels were in fighting around Olenivka, a town 25 kilometers (15 miles) south of Donetsk.
Many have expressed hopes ahead of a summit Tuesday in Minsk, Belarus that includes both Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin, and could be aimed at pressuring Ukraine into seeking a negotiated end to the conflict rather than a military victory.
Earlier Monday, a Ukrainian official said a column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles entered southeastern Ukraine — a move that brings the conflict to an area that has so far escaped the intense fighting of recent weeks.
Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, told reporters that the column of 10 tanks, two armored vehicles and two trucks crossed the border near the village of Shcherbak and that shells were fired from Russia toward the nearby city of Novoazovsk. He said they were Russian military vehicles bearing the flags of the separatist Donetsk rebels. The village is in the Donetsk region, but not under the control of the rebels.
The Ukrainian National Guard later said two of the tanks had been destroyed.
In Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Monday he had no information about the column.
Russia announced plans, meanwhile, to send a second aid convoy into rebel-held eastern Ukraine, where months of fighting have left many residential buildings in ruins.
Russia's unilateral dispatch of over 200 trucks into Ukraine on Friday was denounced by the Ukrainian government as an invasion and condemned by the United States, the European Union and NATO. Even though the tractor-trailers returned to Russia without incident Saturday, the announcement of another convoy was likely to raise new suspicions.
Lavrov said the food, water and other goods the convoy delivered Friday to the hard-hit rebel city of Luhansk were being distributed Monday and that Red Cross workers were involved in talks on how best to do that. There was no immediate confirmation from the Red Cross.
In sending in the first convoy, Russia said it had lost patience with what it called Ukraine's stalling tactics. It claimed that soon "there will no longer be anyone left to help" in Luhansk, where weeks of heavy shelling have cut off power, water and phone service and made food scarce.
The Ukrainian government had said the aid convoy was a ploy by Russia to get supplies to the rebels and slow down the government's military advances.
___
Laura Mills in Moscow contributed to this report.
By JIM HEINTZ
— Aug. 25, 2014 4:34 PM EDT
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In this photo taken on Saturday, Aug. 23, 2014, Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko makes a statement to the press in Kiev, Ukraine. Poroshenko on Monday, Aug. 25, dissolved parliament and called for early elections in October 26 as his country continues to battle a pro-Russian insurgency in its eastern regions. (AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)
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Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov speaks in Moscow, Russia, Monday, Aug. 25, 2014. Russia has announced plans to send a second aid convoy to rebel-held eastern Ukraine, where months of fighting have left many residential buildings in ruins. Lavrov said Monday that Russia had notified the Ukrainian government that it was preparing to send a second convoy along the same route in the coming days. (AP Photo/Ivan Sekretarev)
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Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov speaks in Moscow, Russia, Monday, Aug. 25, 2014. Russia has announced plans to send a second aid convoy to rebel-held eastern Ukraine, where months of fighting have left many residential buildings in ruins. Lavrov said Monday that Russia had notified the Ukrainian government that it was preparing to send a second convoy along the same route in the coming days. (AP Photo/Ivan Sekretarev)
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Ukrainian navy ships bob by the shore on a stormy, turbulent sea pass in Odessa's embankment, Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. In another symbolic move, Poroshenko traveled south to the predominantly Russian-speaking port city of Odessa to give a second speech on Sunday. Ukraine lost much of its coastline when the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea was annexed by Russia in March, and the loyalty of local authorities in Odessa to Kiev has been a top priority for the new government. (AP Photo/Sergei Poliakov)
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A pro-Russian rebel holds a Russian national flag near to damaged heavy hardware from the Ukrainian army during an exhibition in the central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Antoine E.R. Delaunay)
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Pro-Russian rebels escort captured Ukrainian army prisoners in a central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Antoine E.R. Delaunay)
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Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic Alexander Zakharchenko, center, leaves a news conference in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
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Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic Alexander Zakharchenko, right, and Defence Minister Vladimir Kononov leave a news conference in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
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Pro-Russian rebels escort captured Ukrainian army prisoners in a central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
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Captured Ukrainian army prisoners sit in a bus after they were escorted by Pro-Russian rebels in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
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Pro-Russian rebels escort prisoners of war from the Ukrainian army in a central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
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A man throws an egg at captured Ukrainian army prisoners as they're escorted by Pro-Russian rebels in a central square in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, Sunday, Aug. 24, 2014. Ukraine has retaken control of much of its eastern territory bordering Russia in the last few weeks, but fierce fighting for the rebel-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk persists. (AP Photo/Sergei Grits)
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine's president on Monday dissolved parliament and called for early elections in October as his country continues to battle a pro-Russian insurgency in its eastern regions.
In a statement on his website, President Petro Poroshenko said snap elections would be held Oct. 26.
Poroshenko said the dissolution, which was prefigured by the breakup of the majority coalition last month, was in line with "the expectations of the vast majority of the citizens of Ukraine" and called it a move toward "cleansing" the parliament.
Many members of parliament "are allies of the militants-separatists," Poroshenko said, referring to the pro-Russian rebels who have battled government troops in the country's east since April.
The Party of Regions, which is backed by much of the country's industrial, Russian-speaking east and was supported by pro-Russian ex-president Viktor Yanukovych, was the largest party in parliament before Yanukovych fled the country in the wake of massive protests in February and still has a substantial presence.
Most of these members "accepted dictatorial laws that took the lives of the Heaven's Hundred," he said, using the common term for those killed during the protests against Yanukovych, many by sniper fire.
He emphasized the need to elect new leaders from the war-torn areas of east Ukraine in order to represent the region in the new government. It wasn't clear how it would be possible to conduct elections at such short notice in Donetsk and Luhansk, where hundreds of thousands have fled their homes and shelling between rebel and government forces continues daily.
Over the past month, Ukrainian forces have made substantial inroads against pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine, taking control of several sizeable towns and cities that had been under rebel control since April, when the clashes began.
But the advances have come at a high cost — more than 2,000 civilians reportedly killed and at least 726 Ukrainian servicemen. There is no independent figure for the number of rebel dead, although Ukrainian authorities said Monday that 250 rebels were in fighting around Olenivka, a town 25 kilometers (15 miles) south of Donetsk.
Many have expressed hopes ahead of a summit Tuesday in Minsk, Belarus that includes both Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin, and could be aimed at pressuring Ukraine into seeking a negotiated end to the conflict rather than a military victory.
Earlier Monday, a Ukrainian official said a column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles entered southeastern Ukraine — a move that brings the conflict to an area that has so far escaped the intense fighting of recent weeks.
Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, told reporters that the column of 10 tanks, two armored vehicles and two trucks crossed the border near the village of Shcherbak and that shells were fired from Russia toward the nearby city of Novoazovsk. He said they were Russian military vehicles bearing the flags of the separatist Donetsk rebels. The village is in the Donetsk region, but not under the control of the rebels.
The Ukrainian National Guard later said two of the tanks had been destroyed.
In Moscow, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Monday he had no information about the column.
Russia announced plans, meanwhile, to send a second aid convoy into rebel-held eastern Ukraine, where months of fighting have left many residential buildings in ruins.
Russia's unilateral dispatch of over 200 trucks into Ukraine on Friday was denounced by the Ukrainian government as an invasion and condemned by the United States, the European Union and NATO. Even though the tractor-trailers returned to Russia without incident Saturday, the announcement of another convoy was likely to raise new suspicions.
Lavrov said the food, water and other goods the convoy delivered Friday to the hard-hit rebel city of Luhansk were being distributed Monday and that Red Cross workers were involved in talks on how best to do that. There was no immediate confirmation from the Red Cross.
In sending in the first convoy, Russia said it had lost patience with what it called Ukraine's stalling tactics. It claimed that soon "there will no longer be anyone left to help" in Luhansk, where weeks of heavy shelling have cut off power, water and phone service and made food scarce.
The Ukrainian government had said the aid convoy was a ploy by Russia to get supplies to the rebels and slow down the government's military advances.
___
Laura Mills in Moscow contributed to this report.
ill
Superstar
Like I said at the start of the conflict, Russia will never invade Ukraine unless Ukraine wants it and goes after the eastern part of their country.
Sanctions are a joke. They are temporary and the minute Putin lets off the gas pedal, they will be eliminated.
The countries in eastern Europe are going to hurt badly when Russia fights back with its own economic sanctions.
I understand a lot of posters on here still hate Russia from the Cold War/communist era, but in todays world I think its the wrong viewpoint. Isolating Russia will only cause them to get in bed with "unfriendly" nations ala Syria, Iran, N Korea, etc. Its just going to become a pissing match. They are going to restart the Cold War and do their dirt through proxy nations. Theres no chance of stability in that regard.
In regards to Crimea, its the same situation as Kosovo so the western double standard is def in play.
With all that said, I still don't understand how some of these posters stan the fukk outta Russia. Unless you're of Russian descent you probably shouldn't be campaigning so hard for them.
Sanctions are a joke. They are temporary and the minute Putin lets off the gas pedal, they will be eliminated.
The countries in eastern Europe are going to hurt badly when Russia fights back with its own economic sanctions.
I understand a lot of posters on here still hate Russia from the Cold War/communist era, but in todays world I think its the wrong viewpoint. Isolating Russia will only cause them to get in bed with "unfriendly" nations ala Syria, Iran, N Korea, etc. Its just going to become a pissing match. They are going to restart the Cold War and do their dirt through proxy nations. Theres no chance of stability in that regard.
In regards to Crimea, its the same situation as Kosovo so the western double standard is def in play.
With all that said, I still don't understand how some of these posters stan the fukk outta Russia. Unless you're of Russian descent you probably shouldn't be campaigning so hard for them.
Captured Russian troops 'in Ukraine by accident'
Russian sources say the men were patrolling a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border
Continue reading the main story
Ukraine crisis
A group of Russian soldiers captured in eastern Ukraine crossed the border "by accident", Russian military sources are quoted as saying.
Ukraine said 10 paratroopers were captured, and has released video interviews of some of the men.
The incident comes as the Ukrainian and Russian leaders hold talks in Belarus.
More than 2,000 people have died in months of fighting between Ukrainian forces and separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Steve Rosenberg says there's little optimism ahead of the talks in Belarus
The two regions declared independence from Kiev following Russia's annexation of the southern Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in March.
'Cannon fodder'
A Russian defence ministry source was quoted by the Russian news agency RIA Novosti as saying: "The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained."
The source also said that some 500 Ukrainian servicemen had crossed the border at various times, adding: "We did not give much publicity to that. We just returned all those willing to return to Ukrainian territory at safe places."
Smoke rises close to the town of Novoazovsk, where Ukrainian forces said they had engaged an armoured column from Russia
Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 20km from the Russian border.
Ukrainian military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said: "This wasn't a mistake, but a special mission they were carrying out."
A Ukrainian television report that carried the interviews with the men said they were from the 331st regiment of the 98th Svirsk airborne division.
It quoted one man, named as Sgt Andrei Generalov, as saying: "Stop sending in our boys. Why? This is not our war. And if we weren't here, none of this would have happened."
Russia has repeatedly denied Ukrainian and Western accusations that it is supporting the rebels.
On Monday, Ukraine said an armoured column had crossed the border into south-eastern Ukraine, sparking clashes near Novoazovsk.
Mr Lysenko said on Tuesday that Ukrainian forces had destroyed 12 armoured infantry carriers there. He said 12 Ukrainian military personnel had been killed in the past 24 hours.
Mr Lysenko said four border guards had been killed by fire from Russian Mi-24 helicopters.
Border controls
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, are discussing the crisis at Tuesday's summit in the Belarusian capital, Minsk.
Mr Putin said the current conflict could not "be resolved through further escalation of the use of force", and required direct dialogue with the separatists.
Meanwhile Mr Poroshenko insisted that the only way to end the bloodshed and stabilise the region was by establishing effective border controls.
The BBC's David Stern in Kiev says the summit is under the auspices of the Moscow-led Eurasian Customs Union, which also includes Belarus and Kazakhstan, and that it is still unclear whether Mr Putin and Mr Poroshenko will meet separately.
Analysis: The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Minsk
The gulf between the positions of Ukraine and Russia is huge. Russia wants an unconditional ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. But Ukraine has the upper hand against the rebels there and does not want to simply stop and let them regroup.
Russia stresses that Ukraine must talk to the rebels, but Ukraine says the rebels are not a force of their own - rather an extension of Russia's hostilities, and it is Russia that must talk to the rebels and persuade them to lay down their weapons.
What will bridge this gulf after so many months of fighting remains unclear.
The pair, who shook hands at the start of the summit, last met briefly in June at the D-Day commemorations.
Ahead of the meeting, Mr Poroshenko said: "I hope the result of today's meeting will be the achievement of an agreement that will bring peace to Ukrainian soil."
The summit in Minsk is also being attended by senior officials from the European Union which, along with the US, has imposed sanctions on Russia for failing to rein in the separatists.
A Belarusian honour guard awaits the start of the summit in Minsk
Russian sources say the men were patrolling a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border
Continue reading the main story
Ukraine crisis
A group of Russian soldiers captured in eastern Ukraine crossed the border "by accident", Russian military sources are quoted as saying.
Ukraine said 10 paratroopers were captured, and has released video interviews of some of the men.
The incident comes as the Ukrainian and Russian leaders hold talks in Belarus.
More than 2,000 people have died in months of fighting between Ukrainian forces and separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Steve Rosenberg says there's little optimism ahead of the talks in Belarus
The two regions declared independence from Kiev following Russia's annexation of the southern Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in March.
'Cannon fodder'
A Russian defence ministry source was quoted by the Russian news agency RIA Novosti as saying: "The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained."
The source also said that some 500 Ukrainian servicemen had crossed the border at various times, adding: "We did not give much publicity to that. We just returned all those willing to return to Ukrainian territory at safe places."
Ukraine's security service said its military had captured the 10 Russian paratroopers near the village of Dzerkalne, about 50km (30 miles) south-east of the rebel-held city of Donetsk and about 20km from the Russian border.
Ukrainian military spokesman Andriy Lysenko said: "This wasn't a mistake, but a special mission they were carrying out."
A Ukrainian television report that carried the interviews with the men said they were from the 331st regiment of the 98th Svirsk airborne division.
It quoted one man, named as Sgt Andrei Generalov, as saying: "Stop sending in our boys. Why? This is not our war. And if we weren't here, none of this would have happened."
Russia has repeatedly denied Ukrainian and Western accusations that it is supporting the rebels.
On Monday, Ukraine said an armoured column had crossed the border into south-eastern Ukraine, sparking clashes near Novoazovsk.
Mr Lysenko said on Tuesday that Ukrainian forces had destroyed 12 armoured infantry carriers there. He said 12 Ukrainian military personnel had been killed in the past 24 hours.
Mr Lysenko said four border guards had been killed by fire from Russian Mi-24 helicopters.
Border controls
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, are discussing the crisis at Tuesday's summit in the Belarusian capital, Minsk.
Mr Putin said the current conflict could not "be resolved through further escalation of the use of force", and required direct dialogue with the separatists.
Meanwhile Mr Poroshenko insisted that the only way to end the bloodshed and stabilise the region was by establishing effective border controls.
The BBC's David Stern in Kiev says the summit is under the auspices of the Moscow-led Eurasian Customs Union, which also includes Belarus and Kazakhstan, and that it is still unclear whether Mr Putin and Mr Poroshenko will meet separately.
Analysis: The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Minsk
The gulf between the positions of Ukraine and Russia is huge. Russia wants an unconditional ceasefire in eastern Ukraine. But Ukraine has the upper hand against the rebels there and does not want to simply stop and let them regroup.
Russia stresses that Ukraine must talk to the rebels, but Ukraine says the rebels are not a force of their own - rather an extension of Russia's hostilities, and it is Russia that must talk to the rebels and persuade them to lay down their weapons.
What will bridge this gulf after so many months of fighting remains unclear.
The pair, who shook hands at the start of the summit, last met briefly in June at the D-Day commemorations.
Ahead of the meeting, Mr Poroshenko said: "I hope the result of today's meeting will be the achievement of an agreement that will bring peace to Ukrainian soil."
The summit in Minsk is also being attended by senior officials from the European Union which, along with the US, has imposed sanctions on Russia for failing to rein in the separatists.
lol, yeah.. Russia is taking the L.. but being able to tell Every modern nation to eat a dikk with hardly any consequence.
Russia admits its soldiers have been caught in Ukraine
Issue of captured soldiers to be discussed at meeting between Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart on Tuesday afternoon
A video released by the Ukrainian security service purporting to show Russian servicemen captured on Ukrainian territory. Photograph: Reuters TV
Sources in Moscow have admitted that a number of men captured insideUkraine were indeed serving Russian soldiers, but said they crossed the border by mistake. The admission comes as President Vladimir Putin meets his Ukrainian counterpart, Petro Poroshenko, for talks in Minsk. The pair shook hands ahead of the talks on Tuesday afternoon.
Videos were released by Ukrainian authorities of interrogations of the prisoners, who said they were serving Russian army officers. One said he had not been told exactly where they were going, but had an idea he was inside Ukraine. There was no immediate confirmation of the authenticity of the recordings, but the fact that Russian wire agencies ran a defence ministry admission that soldiers had indeed crossed into Ukraine suggested that the footage was genuine.
"The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained," a source in Russia's defence ministry told the RIA Novosti agency.
Ukraine said it had captured 10 Russian soldiers, though it did not state how they were caught. Weapons and fighters are able to cross the porous border freely, but until now there has never been confirmation that serving Russian soldiers were active inside Ukraine, despite repeated claims from Kiev and some circumstantial evidence.
This makes the videos released on Tuesday all the more significant if authenticated.
Two weeks ago, the Guardian saw a convoy of armoured personnel carriers and support trucks with Russian military plates cross an unmarked section of the border near the town of Donetsk.
Russia furiously denied that any incursion had taken place, and said the column was on a "border patrol" mission that stayed strictly on the Russian side.
The incursions by Russian soldiers are likely to be discussed at the meeting between Putin and Poroshenko on Tuesday.
The official reason for the summit is a meeting of the nations of the Customs Union, which includes Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, but all eyes will be on the meeting between Putin and Poroshenko, only their second since the Ukrainian president won elections in May.
"As well as trade and energy issues, the priority for the meeting in Minsk is the question of peace," said Poroshenko during a televised discussion with Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko before the wider talks began.
Russia has called for an immediate ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, but Kiev wants to finish its "anti-terrorist operation" to win back control of the whole country. Both leaders are under pressure from domestic audiences not to make concessions, and there is little hope of a major breakthrough.
Issue of captured soldiers to be discussed at meeting between Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart on Tuesday afternoon
Email- Shaun Walker in Kiev
- theguardian.com, Tuesday 26 August 2014 05.44 EDT
- Jump to comments (2866)
A video released by the Ukrainian security service purporting to show Russian servicemen captured on Ukrainian territory. Photograph: Reuters TV
Sources in Moscow have admitted that a number of men captured insideUkraine were indeed serving Russian soldiers, but said they crossed the border by mistake. The admission comes as President Vladimir Putin meets his Ukrainian counterpart, Petro Poroshenko, for talks in Minsk. The pair shook hands ahead of the talks on Tuesday afternoon.
Videos were released by Ukrainian authorities of interrogations of the prisoners, who said they were serving Russian army officers. One said he had not been told exactly where they were going, but had an idea he was inside Ukraine. There was no immediate confirmation of the authenticity of the recordings, but the fact that Russian wire agencies ran a defence ministry admission that soldiers had indeed crossed into Ukraine suggested that the footage was genuine.
"The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained," a source in Russia's defence ministry told the RIA Novosti agency.
Ukraine said it had captured 10 Russian soldiers, though it did not state how they were caught. Weapons and fighters are able to cross the porous border freely, but until now there has never been confirmation that serving Russian soldiers were active inside Ukraine, despite repeated claims from Kiev and some circumstantial evidence.
This makes the videos released on Tuesday all the more significant if authenticated.
Two weeks ago, the Guardian saw a convoy of armoured personnel carriers and support trucks with Russian military plates cross an unmarked section of the border near the town of Donetsk.
Russia furiously denied that any incursion had taken place, and said the column was on a "border patrol" mission that stayed strictly on the Russian side.
The incursions by Russian soldiers are likely to be discussed at the meeting between Putin and Poroshenko on Tuesday.
The official reason for the summit is a meeting of the nations of the Customs Union, which includes Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, but all eyes will be on the meeting between Putin and Poroshenko, only their second since the Ukrainian president won elections in May.
"As well as trade and energy issues, the priority for the meeting in Minsk is the question of peace," said Poroshenko during a televised discussion with Belarusian president Alexander Lukashenko before the wider talks began.
Russia has called for an immediate ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, but Kiev wants to finish its "anti-terrorist operation" to win back control of the whole country. Both leaders are under pressure from domestic audiences not to make concessions, and there is little hope of a major breakthrough.
And between farming and LA exports they will be fine
The EU on the other hand has no alternative markets for their agriculture and winter is coming
EU callin' but all them Latin American presidents like
Some chinese money changers about to cake somethin' serious, because ain't nobody exchangin' their dollars for rubles
Biden Sends A Clear Message To Putin About Georgia, As Ukraine Intervention Continues
Bogdan Cristel/Reuters
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden walks in front of an honor guard at Otopeni international airport near Bucharest, Romania, on May 20, 2014.
American officials have been hesitant to label the Russian military advance into eastern Ukraine an invasion, calling it a "Russian-directed counter-offensive," for instance.
But the Obama administration has sharpened some of its rhetoric towards Russia in subtle but still significant respects, as a seemingly innocuous and little commented-upon press readout from Aug. 22 demonstrates.
On the same day a Russian "aid convoy" reportedly entered southeastern Ukraine, Biden's office released a readout of his conversation with Georgian prime minister Irakli Garibashvili. In it, Biden "underscored his support for Georgia’s NATO membership aspirations."
At a particularly sensitive moment in U.S.-Russian relations, Biden confirmed the U.S. was still backing a policy that Moscow has long opposed and considers something of a red line. (In March, Obama said neither Georgia or Ukraine were on the path to NATO membership, although that was likely a misstatement in Georgia's case).
Georgian NATO membership would permanently remove the former Soviet republic from Russia's orbit. Practically, it would mean that Russia would risk war with the entire NATO alliance if it ever invaded Georgia, which it did as recently as 2008. Symbolically, it would place one of the most integral of the former Soviet states firmly in the European camp — something that Moscow might see as a provocation unto itself.
But this was no gaffe. Biden's support appears in a readout of a phone conservation, a vetted statement that was likely deliberately and carefully crafted. So the U.S. still supports Georgia's NATO aspiration, even if it's unclear what that means in practicality, or whether Biden's statement was anything more than a rhetorical ploy.
"The question is the degree to which the U.S. really means it," Jeremy Shapiro, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and a former U.S. State Department staffer, told Business Insider.
Biden might just mean the U.S. supports Georgia taking a number of procedural steps that may or may not result in NATO membership — a process that took Albania, which joined in 2009, over a decade. Or he might mean the U.S. wants to advance the process to counter Russian aggression.
The latter possibility seems unlikely, as it would only ratchet up the confrontation between Putin and the west and lessen the chances of a peaceful resolution to the Ukraine crisis.
REUTERS/Dmitry Astakhov/RIA Novosti
Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu watch the Victory Day parade in Moscow's Red Square May 9, 2014, where Putin praised the Soviet role in defeating fascism on Friday, the anniversary of the World War Two victory over Nazi Germany, and said those who defeated fascism must never be betrayed.
It's more likely the U.S. is talking about Georgian NATO membership to remind Russia of the NATO block's range of strategic options — but without committing itself to a specific course of action.
"The logic is to give Georgia a Membership Action Plan and put them on this path that still changes the situation on the ground and Moscow's calculation," Laura Linderman, a research fellow at the Atlantic Council and expert on the Caucasus region, told Business Insider.
By even talking about Georgian accession to NATO, the U.S. is telegraphing its intentions to Putin without throwing its weight behind anything more than a vague policy. "Putin operates in a way that forces a black and white view of countries on Russia's periphery — they have to choose the West or choose us," Linderman explains, "and Putin tends to take any kind of equivocating statement as a sign of weakness."
This doesn't mean that letting Georgia into NATO would necessarily be a smart policy. The inclusion of a weak and sometimes-unstable frontline state with a history of conflict with Russia might weaken the mutual defense guarantee at the heart of the alliance. And Georgia has an active border conflict with Russia — along with Russian troops stationed inside the breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which are Georgian territory under international law.
But it would put a fragile and Western-leaning country behind the strongest defense alliance in modern history, giving it the security needed to build institutions while denying Moscow of another area of influence. The Ukraine situation has also convinced Georgian leaders that their future lies with integration into Europe — even if it's a reminder of what Putin is capable of.
"The Ukraine crisis an opening for Georgia to push for a closer relationship with NATO in some ways," says Linderman. "It also leaves them much more vulnerable. They're in a tough spot."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bidens-message-to-moscow-2014-8#ixzz3BXtjr900
- AUG. 26, 2014, 2:58 PM
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Bogdan Cristel/Reuters
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden walks in front of an honor guard at Otopeni international airport near Bucharest, Romania, on May 20, 2014.
American officials have been hesitant to label the Russian military advance into eastern Ukraine an invasion, calling it a "Russian-directed counter-offensive," for instance.
But the Obama administration has sharpened some of its rhetoric towards Russia in subtle but still significant respects, as a seemingly innocuous and little commented-upon press readout from Aug. 22 demonstrates.
On the same day a Russian "aid convoy" reportedly entered southeastern Ukraine, Biden's office released a readout of his conversation with Georgian prime minister Irakli Garibashvili. In it, Biden "underscored his support for Georgia’s NATO membership aspirations."
At a particularly sensitive moment in U.S.-Russian relations, Biden confirmed the U.S. was still backing a policy that Moscow has long opposed and considers something of a red line. (In March, Obama said neither Georgia or Ukraine were on the path to NATO membership, although that was likely a misstatement in Georgia's case).
Georgian NATO membership would permanently remove the former Soviet republic from Russia's orbit. Practically, it would mean that Russia would risk war with the entire NATO alliance if it ever invaded Georgia, which it did as recently as 2008. Symbolically, it would place one of the most integral of the former Soviet states firmly in the European camp — something that Moscow might see as a provocation unto itself.
But this was no gaffe. Biden's support appears in a readout of a phone conservation, a vetted statement that was likely deliberately and carefully crafted. So the U.S. still supports Georgia's NATO aspiration, even if it's unclear what that means in practicality, or whether Biden's statement was anything more than a rhetorical ploy.
"The question is the degree to which the U.S. really means it," Jeremy Shapiro, a fellow at the Brookings Institution and a former U.S. State Department staffer, told Business Insider.
Biden might just mean the U.S. supports Georgia taking a number of procedural steps that may or may not result in NATO membership — a process that took Albania, which joined in 2009, over a decade. Or he might mean the U.S. wants to advance the process to counter Russian aggression.
The latter possibility seems unlikely, as it would only ratchet up the confrontation between Putin and the west and lessen the chances of a peaceful resolution to the Ukraine crisis.
REUTERS/Dmitry Astakhov/RIA Novosti
Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu watch the Victory Day parade in Moscow's Red Square May 9, 2014, where Putin praised the Soviet role in defeating fascism on Friday, the anniversary of the World War Two victory over Nazi Germany, and said those who defeated fascism must never be betrayed.
It's more likely the U.S. is talking about Georgian NATO membership to remind Russia of the NATO block's range of strategic options — but without committing itself to a specific course of action.
"The logic is to give Georgia a Membership Action Plan and put them on this path that still changes the situation on the ground and Moscow's calculation," Laura Linderman, a research fellow at the Atlantic Council and expert on the Caucasus region, told Business Insider.
By even talking about Georgian accession to NATO, the U.S. is telegraphing its intentions to Putin without throwing its weight behind anything more than a vague policy. "Putin operates in a way that forces a black and white view of countries on Russia's periphery — they have to choose the West or choose us," Linderman explains, "and Putin tends to take any kind of equivocating statement as a sign of weakness."
This doesn't mean that letting Georgia into NATO would necessarily be a smart policy. The inclusion of a weak and sometimes-unstable frontline state with a history of conflict with Russia might weaken the mutual defense guarantee at the heart of the alliance. And Georgia has an active border conflict with Russia — along with Russian troops stationed inside the breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which are Georgian territory under international law.
But it would put a fragile and Western-leaning country behind the strongest defense alliance in modern history, giving it the security needed to build institutions while denying Moscow of another area of influence. The Ukraine situation has also convinced Georgian leaders that their future lies with integration into Europe — even if it's a reminder of what Putin is capable of.
"The Ukraine crisis an opening for Georgia to push for a closer relationship with NATO in some ways," says Linderman. "It also leaves them much more vulnerable. They're in a tough spot."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bidens-message-to-moscow-2014-8#ixzz3BXtjr900
lol, yeah.. Russia is taking the L.. but being able to tell Every modern nation to eat a dikk with hardly any consequence.
this is whats killing me man
Putin literally giving the west double finger salute with no fukks given
@2Quik4UHoes
Poland: Russian Army Operating in Ukraine
By Dow Jones Business News, August 27, 2014, 05:55:00 AM EDT
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WARSAW--Western intelligence agencies have evidence that the Russian army is directly operating in eastern Ukraine, Poland's prime minister said on Wednesday.
"Nobody can seriously accept talk of "separatists" in Ukraine anymore," Donald Tusk told parliament, adding that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has over the past day gathered "very solid confirmation" that the Russia military has entered Ukraine.
"The information is from NATO and confirmed by our intelligence, and is basically unambiguous," he said.
Ahead of the upcoming NATO summit in September, Mr. Tusk said that Poland will seek a gradual increase of NATO forces in the country because of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict.
"The more Poland is anchored in NATO structures, the safer it is, faced with the conflict in Ukraine," he said. "Step by step, we're managing to convince our partners to increase [NATO's] presence."
A former Warsaw Pact member, Poland joined NATO in 1999.
Russia reacted angrily at plans for deployment of elements of the U.S. missile shield in Poland, saying such facilities placed not far from its borders would change the strategic balance of forces between NATO and Russia.
Write to Marcin Sobczyk at marcin.sobczyk@wsj.com
Subscribe to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com?mod=djnwires
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
08-27-140555ET
Copyright (c) 2014 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/poland-russian-army-operating-in-ukraine-20140827-00084#ixzz3Be6yUbrI
Poland: Russian Army Operating in Ukraine
By Dow Jones Business News, August 27, 2014, 05:55:00 AM EDT
Comment
More Sharing ServicesShare|Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on print
WARSAW--Western intelligence agencies have evidence that the Russian army is directly operating in eastern Ukraine, Poland's prime minister said on Wednesday.
"Nobody can seriously accept talk of "separatists" in Ukraine anymore," Donald Tusk told parliament, adding that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has over the past day gathered "very solid confirmation" that the Russia military has entered Ukraine.
"The information is from NATO and confirmed by our intelligence, and is basically unambiguous," he said.
Ahead of the upcoming NATO summit in September, Mr. Tusk said that Poland will seek a gradual increase of NATO forces in the country because of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict.
"The more Poland is anchored in NATO structures, the safer it is, faced with the conflict in Ukraine," he said. "Step by step, we're managing to convince our partners to increase [NATO's] presence."
A former Warsaw Pact member, Poland joined NATO in 1999.
Russia reacted angrily at plans for deployment of elements of the U.S. missile shield in Poland, saying such facilities placed not far from its borders would change the strategic balance of forces between NATO and Russia.
Write to Marcin Sobczyk at marcin.sobczyk@wsj.com
Subscribe to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com?mod=djnwires
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
08-27-140555ET
Copyright (c) 2014 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/poland-russian-army-operating-in-ukraine-20140827-00084#ixzz3Be6yUbrI
@BarNone @Brown_Pride Can we merge and re-open this thread on HL???? http://www.thecoli.com/threads/sooo...nto-mad-max-beyond-thunderdome-status.184055/
We have serious updates.
We have serious updates.
