The Russia - Ukraine Conflict

[hatealot]

Usually OOFíng a leader leads to worse more hardline people taking over. We whacked several Terror leaders it didn't stop terrorism.

Let the bombs drop. Ukraine needs to fukking surrender. Their negligence is going to lead to more dead civilians. They are a capitulated nation.

They been benefiting from Russia for a long time. He is just collecting his dividends and forcing the world to accept it. They been profiting from both sides and now one side called them out.

Bombs need to be dropped point blank. More civilians need to get killed.

Their economy is a joke. They hold no weight on the international stage. They are Pseudo nation

 

[Strapped]

The kremlin is about to take Ukrainians next port city in the black sea

 

[chkmeout]

Let the bombs drop. Ukraine needs to fukking surrender. Their negligence is going to lead to more dead civilians. They are a capitulated nation.

They been benefiting from Russia for a long time. He is just collecting his dividends and forcing the world to accept it. They been profiting from both sides and now one side called them out.

Bombs need to be dropped point blank. More civilians need to get killed.

Their economy is a joke. They hold no weight on the international stage. They are Pseudo nation

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

 

[Wiseborn]

Breh that's literally how the Afghan War finally ended just 8 months ago - with the entire Afghan military giving up and refusing to fight.



If you want to go to a huge engagement, that's also how World War 1 ended. First the Russians began abandoning the front lines by the hundreds of thousands, forcing Russia to pull out of the war and eventually leading to the entire Russian Empire's downfall. Then the Germans refused to fight, forcing their government to try to seek peace and leading to their downfall as well.

Between Acceptance and Refusal - Soldiers' Attitudes Towards War (Russian Empire)

Kiel mutiny - Wikipedia



Another example is the downfall of the Italians in World War 2. This is often painted as some sort of cowardice or poor leadership or lack of supplies, but the reality is that thousands of young Italians forced to fight really didn't give a shyt about Mussolini and especially Hitler and didn't want to die for their stupid war. Engagements like Operation Compass where 130,000 Italian troops quickly surrendered to 30,000 British troops are portrayed as masterclasses in strategy by war gurus who don't want to accept that in reality sometimes soldiers just don't want to fight for that bullshyt.

https://en.topwar.ru/178180-operacija-kompas-katastrofa-italjanskoj-armii-v-severnoj-afrike.html



Going way back another example is how New Amsterdam became New York cause the Dutch governor was an a$$hole and no one wanted to fight for him, so when the British attacked they just refused to fight and surrendered to the British instead.

New Amsterdam surrendered to the English | History Today



Another example that same century is the Glorious Revolution, where William III of the Dutch Republic marched into England and the Royal Army immediately switched sides because they didn't want to fight for King James II

Glorious Revolution - Wikipedia



Going further back in history, Emperor Yang's dynasty ended because his soldiers got sick of fighting battles they felt were useless and didn't believe in, so they were going to just flee, but got worried they'd be hunted down and killed so they mutinied instead and killed the Emperor, ending the war

Yuwen Huaji - Wikipedia



Lucullus lost the Battle of Zela and had to abandon the Mithridatic Wars because his soldiers refused to keep fighting

Battle of Zela (67 BC) - Wikipedia



And like I said before, the downfall of Marcos in Philippines in 1986, the downfall of Ben Ali in Tunisia in 2011, and the downfall of Mubarak that very same year were all because their armies refused to fight against a nonviolent rebellion and turned on their own ruler instead.

Military Urged to Stop Supporting Marcos

How Hosni Mubarak misread his military men

When do militaries side with protestors?



Those are all only the more obvious ones - in reality lack of morale and end of desire to fight is part of the reason a lot of wars end. It's just that military historians and strategists tend to want to focus on the "great men", and not acknowledge how much impact the regular soldier can have on deciding events. One exception I can think of is Leo Tolstoy, who in War and Peace basically says the generals have no control over events at all and are just reacting to what thousands of men and events have already decided for them.






Population of Ukraine is 44 million, a hundred thousand defecting soldiers would be 0.2%. Doesn't even register in terms of taxing resources. Not to mention if necessary they could simply join the refugees and defect to any of the surrounding nations.

The Afghan Army units made deals but the real reason was their logistics chain was fukked up so really it was a situation where they had no choice because the Government had given up on the Soliders.

The dudes that CIA were paying the the Counter Terrorist Pursuit Teams never gave up (because CIA were suppling them) They were the dudes guarding the Planes as the US Pulled out.

By the way they only surrendered when the US was leaving.
On the eastern Front in WWI the Russian army was stil in the field and the Germans were tied down until the communists took over but I'll grant you the parital point.

There's the old Stab in the Back Myth that said Germans were still fighting and they didn't retreat until the end of the war and I beleive an american trying to get a medal was shot on the last day at the last minute. Hilter was in the Hospital when the ceasefire was declared and he was generally surprised that Germany surrendered. Granted he was in the hospital for a long time and even when he was still in the field he noticed defeatism but still

Needless to say After WWII Rommel knew it was over after D-Day yet the German Army fought up until the last minute and AFTER the last minute in the former Yugoslavia.


Even if you're completely right that even though Russia completely dominates Ukraine in Men and Material, and even in Intelligence and Logistics because of "Motivation" (despite 1.8 million people dipping)

You got to admit the US media CNN in particular is ridulously one sided, Every piece is about "determined"Ukrainians dudes volunteering (not one word about the illegality of this and what happens when a foriegn volunteer is captured) Russian captives crying and the huge fat target of a Convoy that's stalled Yet the "Ghost of Kyiv" hasn't bombed. Ukraine has Tanks they have actual Infantry They have Artillery Why haven't they blown that Covoy to Kingdom Come? Maybe it's because they don't have the dudes or too spread out to concentrate of that Column you know the one that will take out the government if they can get it going.

The Ukraininans are "preparing" for an assualt of the ultra stragetic port of Odessa? Again the Ukranian Navy and Naval Infantry existed I mean they checked the Germans for months in Crimea why haven't they destroyed Russian ships that will bring in the Russian Naval Infantry which will close off Ukraine to the Sea? Maybe it's because they can't and they just have enough dudes to do a Stalingrad in the city itself. Which brings up a Final Point about the Fighting sprirt of the Ukrainans so far Maripol and Kherson fell pretty quickly No Stalingrad situations there.

I'm sure Manstien the dude who had a huge issue capturing Crimea to the point that the Nazi's had to give a campaign medal to dudes who fought there. Is pissed. To put it in perspective You got a Campaign medal for the Eastern front as a whole, One for those involved in the Siege of Lenningrad and one of those involved in the Crimea and one for those involved in the Stalingrad campaign another battle where soliders on both sidessurrendered to the other in Masse and out of a couple hundred thousand German troops going in only about 5000 made out of the gulags alive.

 

[GreenGhxst]

Let the bombs drop. Ukraine needs to fukking surrender. Their negligence is going to lead to more dead civilians. They are a capitulated nation.

They been benefiting from Russia for a long time. He is just collecting his dividends and forcing the world to accept it. They been profiting from both sides and now one side called them out.

Bombs need to be dropped point blank. More civilians need to get killed.

Their economy is a joke. They hold no weight on the international stage. They are Pseudo nation

You sound like that nikka from Dexters lab

Relax b

 

[Wiseborn]

Let the bombs drop. Ukraine needs to fukking surrender. Their negligence is going to lead to more dead civilians. They are a capitulated nation.

They been benefiting from Russia for a long time. He is just collecting his dividends and forcing the world to accept it. They been profiting from both sides and now one side called them out.

Bombs need to be dropped point blank. More civilians need to get killed.

Their economy is a joke. They hold no weight on the international stage. They are Pseudo nation

I get you, I actually would like to see them prevail but yeah they're only delaying the inevitable.

I'm praying for all my ADOS brehs who will be denied jobs for the Ukrainians who will come through and be literally handed jobs. Not to count the ones that will become race soliders mollywhopping brehs.

One of the race soliders just convicted for the murder of our Brother Geoge Floyd was a Hmong american. the Hmongs were a disadvantaged hill tribe in Loas who worked with CIA to fight the communists during the VietNam war. they lost and the US helped some of them get here. The settled primarily in Wisconsin

History usually repeats itself watch the last names of race soliders in Officer involved shootings 20 years from now Probably will be a lot ending in "ski.

 

[Wiseborn]

They're literally posting on an Ukrainian Information Operation

The Miltary buzzword for Information Operations is what was once called Psychological Warfare i.e Propaganda.

We're supposed to beleive that this woman is drawn to tears based off of Russian soliders attacking her country???

When they interview people in the street they don't even take out the cusswords when they talk about Russia.

CNN is down bad and they have to take accountabilty.

What is the Ukrainian Airborne Unit doing? Are they a cohensive fighting force at this point? I haven't seen one picture of an Ukrainian Armored unit since the war started. We see tons of Russian Tanks knocked out and operational.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You got to admit the US media CNN in particular is ridulously one sided, Every piece is about "determined"Ukrainians dudes volunteering (not one word about the illegality of this and what happens when a foriegn volunteer is captured) Russian captives crying and the huge fat target of a Convoy that's stalled Yet the "Ghost of Kyiv" hasn't bombed. Ukraine has Tanks they have actual Infantry They have Artillery Why haven't they blown that Covoy to Kingdom Come? Maybe it's because they don't have the dudes or too spread out to concentrate of that Column you know the one that will take out the government if they can get it going.

The Ukraininans are "preparing" for an assualt of the ultra stragetic port of Odessa? Again the Ukranian Navy and Naval Infantry existed I mean they checked the Germans for months in Crimea why haven't they destroyed Russian ships that will bring in the Russian Naval Infantry which will close off Ukraine to the Sea? Maybe it's because they can't and they just have enough dudes to do a Stalingrad in the city itself. Which brings up a Final Point about the Fighting sprirt of the Ukrainans so far Maripol and Kherson fell pretty quickly No Stalingrad situations there.

I don't watch cable news literally at all, american media in general is definitely biased towards ukrainians but it would pretty much always naturally bias towards the non-aggressor state except when we're the aggressors. I mean hell, American media is biased towards Yemenis too in the rare moments when it actually covers that war despite the fact that technically we're really on the Saudi side.

I think the convoy strategy is fantastic (keep a giant pile of men and material bogged up in one place, force russia to keep sending supply lines, keep cutting down the supplies before they get there) and they're avoiding getting within range because no need to get yourself hit by a enemy that can't threaten you. They've been harassing them with drones and other shyt and taking out plenty of vehicles but it will take a lot of ordinance to take on that entire massive line. Better to focus your resources on convoys that can actually move and just let that one rot in place.

I don't think Ukraine can win long-term though. Which is why I think they should switch to a nonviolent non-cooperation strategy in the near future while they still have infrastructure and lives of their own they can save. They're proven their point to the Russian army and they've got the international sanctions on russia they need, let the impossible to maintain resources of occupation and constant grind of the sanctions wear the russians out and preserve your men for your future.

 

[GreenGhxst]

No

 

[Wiseborn]

I don't watch cable news literally at all, american media in general is definitely biased towards ukrainians but it would pretty much always naturally bias towards the non-aggressor state except when we're the aggressors. I mean hell, American media is biased towards Yemenis too in the rare moments when it actually covers that war despite the fact that technically we're really on the Saudi side.

I think the convoy strategy is fantastic (keep a giant pile of men and material bogged up in one place, force russia to keep sending supply lines, keep cutting down the supplies before they get there) and they're avoiding getting within range because no need to get yourself hit by a enemy that can't threaten you. They've been harassing them with drones and other shyt and taking out plenty of vehicles but it will take a lot of ordinance to take on that entire massive line. Better to focus your resources on convoys that can actually move and just let that one rot in place.

I don't think Ukraine can win long-term though. Which is why I think they should switch to a nonviolent non-cooperation strategy in the near future while they still have infrastructure and lives of their own they can save. They're proven their point to the Russian army and they've got the international sanctions on russia they need, let the impossible to maintain resources of occupation and constant grind of the sanctions wear the russians out and preserve your men for your future.

So we basically agree I defenitely agree with the bolded and my main argument is Zelensky trying to shame the west into the War. The Ukrainian conflict (or whatever it will end up being called) is a Ukrainian issue, Not a NATO one and certainly not an american one. If they win they'll have to do it themselves if they can't win surrender and get the best deal.

I haven't heard about drone attacks (no one is talking about drones which is surprising to me) Telling people to attack tanks with Molitov cocktails tells me that that country has lost. It's exactly what Hitler did sending out Kids and old Men to defend Berlin.

When Zelensky said it it's heroic when Hilter and Stalin said it they were butchers


1945 2022 same thing.

 

[Wiseborn]

Speaking of that Convoy this is how an attack with noting but Infantry would go down against a single Tank with a mobility Kill (meaning it can't move)


Where's that Breh who went back and forth with me about the merits of Forced Entry airborne operations. Drop a company of Paratroopers against one 1st Cav tank and this is what would happen.

 

[Skooby]

Ukraine's Zelenskyy on accepting Crimea as Russia's part: 'Will discuss & find compromise'

 

[Snoopy Loops]

You sound like that nikka from Dexters lab

Relax b

Called homeboy Mandark

 

[QuintessentialMan]

Federal reserves of the national bank were frozen

sanctions caused people to lose faith in the rubble and “sell” it. Russia plan was to use their vast foreign reserves of USD to buy back the rubble and fight devaluation. However half of these reserves are locked because the bills are not actually in Russia, but the US and it’s allies.

however don’t count out Russia. Putin still has a few tricks up his sleeve.

he can trade in Rubles with India and China
He can also collect on his loans to Venezuela

my guy have you seen oil prices? Up like 50% and
Russia is ranked as the second-biggest producer of crude oil in the world, pumping around 14% of the world's total output in 2021.
Imagine that.
In the short term there is no end in sight.
We're in for a ride.
Right now the West trying to scupper that and he's threatening Germany with cutting off their natural gas supply. Its a chess game right now but he still has many moves left.