The other side of the aisle

[The Real]

what? how is there going to be friction if people separate themselves?

right now multiculturalism says that if you come to this country you have some inherent right to your culture and your language, which is not the proper way to integrate, that mentality actually causes less friction as people separate themselves more in their enclaves

Well, separation happens in degrees. If you look at the way studies like this one are done, they're about social networks that define your interactions. You can have dense or sparse networks, but there's no hard and fast cutoff point. Even the most segregated neighborhoods still interact with the outside, at least in cities, where diversity is the highest, and so there is still some friction. There's also a very, very strong tendency towards homogeneity in general that a common language alone doesn't fix. Black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods are largely separate. The question is what combination of sameness and difference is ideal, and there are many kinds of both.

 

[theworldismine13]

Well, separation happens in degrees. If you look at the way studies like this one are done, they're about social networks that define your interactions. You can have dense or sparse networks, but there's no hard and fast cutoff point. Even the most segregated neighborhoods still interact with the outside, at least in cities, where diversity is the highest, and so there is still some friction. There's also a very, very strong tendency towards homogeneity in general that a common language alone doesn't fix. Black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods are largely separate. The question is what combination of sameness and difference is ideal, and there are many kinds of both.

you arent really saying anything, of course there are different ways and different angles to deal with integration, im just pointing out how the concept of multiculturalism or the notion that a person has an inherent right to their language and culture can retard integration

and of course a common language isnt going to to fix everything, but it helps

the question has to be asked if its good for the country to have a huge population come to the US and be able to get a license, open a bank account, go to school, got government services and live for years without knowing english, multicutluralism says that this is not only good but a "right", im just saying it obviously isnt a "right" and it obviously isnt good because it retards integration

for a country like the US, its doubly important to have a common language imo

 

[The Real]

you arent really saying anything, of course there are different ways and different angles to deal with integration, im just pointing out how the concept of multiculturalism or the notion that a person has an inherent right to their language and culture can retard integration

and of course a common language isnt going to to fix everything, but it helps

the question has to be asked if its good for the country to have a huge population come to the US and be able to get a license, open a bank account, go to school, got government services and live for years without knowing english, multicutluralism says that this is not only good but a "right", im just saying it obviously isnt a "right" and it obviously isnt good because it retards integration

for a country like the US, its doubly important to have a common language imo

I've never encountered any advocate of multiculturalism saying that people should be allowed to speak whatever they want and that no one should be able to communicate. I think you're referring to some kind of radical pluralist anarchism, which is a minority view.

 

[theworldismine13]

I've never encountered any advocate of multiculturalism saying that people should be allowed to speak whatever they want and that no one should be able to communicate. I think you're referring to some kind of radical pluralist anarchism, which is a minority view.

have you encountered the notion that if the government does not provide language services to a person the government is discriminating against a person?

because that is the premise behind numerous laws and statues

 

[The Real]

have you encountered the notion that if the government does not provide language services to a person the government is discriminating against a person?

because that is the premise behind numerous laws and statues

Ok, but that is a vague idea. You can be an integrationist and still believe that language services are important for new immigrants while they are mastering English.

 

[theworldismine13]

Ok, but that is a vague idea. You can be an integrationist and still believe that language services are important for new immigrants while they are mastering English.

lol, the only place language services should be provided is at the borders or maybe in courts, besides that this whole "press 2 for spanish" mentality that's creeping through america needs to

 

[The Real]

lol, the only place language services should be provided is at the borders or maybe in courts, besides that this whole "press 2 for spanish" mentality that's creeping through america needs to

Ok, but I don't think that mentality is really all that popular. Private companies do it because they want customers. In the public sphere, I'm not aware of regions of the country where not speaking any English is encouraged by having full support for other languages outside of the courts.

 

[theworldismine13]

Ok, but I don't think that mentality is really all that popular. Private companies do it because they want customers. In the public sphere, I'm not aware of regions of the country where not speaking any English is encouraged by having full support for other languages outside of the courts.

i have seen that by both the government and the private sector, which is what i was referring to and i think its a long term danger to the country, there are parts of the country where you can conduct your entire life without knowing english

 

[The Real]

i have seen that by both the government and the private sector, which is what i was referring to and i think its a long term danger to the country, there are parts of the country where you can conduct your entire life without knowing english

Do you have any proof of this behavior? I know the West coast caters more to other languages, but even there I have never personally seen areas where you can live without English.

 

[Odyssey]

 

[theworldismine13]

Do you have any proof of this behavior? I know the West coast caters more to other languages, but even there I have never personally seen areas where you can live without English.

there are a million areas like that in the southwest

 

[Taadow]

the way to do it properly is to stop promoting multiculturalism or bilingualism, the creativity and innovation that comes from diversity only comes out during the process of integration when ideas start being exchanged, there is no inherent advantage in diversity in and of itself

"There is no inherent advantage" in anything...any alleged "advantage" is potentially a hindrance if mishandled...

So the way to do diversity "properly" is to learn to be cosmopolitan...that means *gasp* EVERYBODY has to adjust.

 

[Ghost Utmost]

The human animal has evolved to live in small (~40 members) family groups. Traditionally, (all human existence until several thousand years ago) seeing strangers was rare and cause for alarm. We are still basically the same inside but we tell ourselves that millions of strangers all around is something normal that we just have to deal with. They even tell you you have a mental disorder if you're bothered by this.

Racism is natural in as much as you are built to consider everyone outside your tribe a potential threat. You are built to sh't outside too, but in modern society we learn to defy our nature in ways. So while one may FEEL a certain way, one has to learn to BEHAVE in a socially constructive manner.

I don't care what you think. On everthing: if hate groups stopped at simply hating my black azz, I wouldn't spend one second per day thinking about them. "Hate" groups are actually "Assault" groups... or at least I only care about the assault related activities. I can even agree that business owners should be able to hire who they prefer. Unqualified. I am glad that businesses are at least paying lip service to Affirmative Action.

Nope. The racists who matter are the kind try to fukc people up. Other than that knock YOURSELF out.

 

[theworldismine13]

"There is no inherent advantage" in anything...any alleged "advantage" is potentially a hindrance if mishandled...

So the way to do diversity "properly" is to learn to be cosmopolitan...that means *gasp* EVERYBODY has to adjust.

You aren't really saying anything unless you define what cosmopolitan means or you specify what it is we are specifically suppose to adjust to

 

[acri1]

The human animal has evolved to live in small (~40 members) family groups. Traditionally, (all human existence until several thousand years ago) seeing strangers was rare and cause for alarm. We are still basically the same inside but we tell ourselves that millions of strangers all around is something normal that we just have to deal with. They even tell you you have a mental disorder if you're bothered by this.

Racism is natural in as much as you are built to consider everyone outside your tribe a potential threat. You are built to sh't outside too, but in modern society we learn to defy our nature in ways. So while one may FEEL a certain way, one has to learn to BEHAVE in a socially constructive manner.

I don't care what you think. On everthing: if hate groups stopped at simply hating my black azz, I wouldn't spend one second per day thinking about them. "Hate" groups are actually "Assault" groups... or at least I only care about the assault related activities. I can even agree that business owners should be able to hire who they prefer. Unqualified. I am glad that businesses are at least paying lip service to Affirmative Action.

Nope. The racists who matter are the kind try to fukc people up. Other than that knock YOURSELF out.

People obviously have a right to think what they want, but let's not act like a society with a bunch of silent/passive racism is ok just because people may not say what they think out loud. In fact it may be worse since it's harder to do anything about.

You can have situations where people may not be "assaulting" each other, but passive 'cism could still come into play when it comes to things like getting jobs, loans, housing, etc. Politicians may advocate policies that are intended to be disadvantageous to certain groups (ie. voter ID laws and literacy test) etc.

So I can't really agree at all with the idea that racism is ok/acceptable as long as there's not violence.