The other side of the aisle

[ghostwriterx]

im not sure what that means but it sounds like your idea is to go and demand that white stop being racist

 

[theworldismine13]

 

[Odyssey]

@The Real

So are you saying that high social trust societies are less desirable because complex racial, sexual, etc societies have the off chance of producing more creativity?

 

[ghostwriterx]

bruh you basically said the exact opposite of what I posted.

 

[The Real]

@The Real

So are you saying that high social trust societies are less desirable because complex racial, sexual, etc societies have the off chance of producing more creativity?

No. I'm saying that, assuming things like creativity and innovation, the things that cause civilization to progress, are good, then homogenous societies will tend to stagnate, being unable to produce them, which was one of the strong findings of Putnam's study. Most of the greatest leaps and bounds in civilization were made in zones of intense contact between diverse peoples, and all of the greatest empires in world history were formed out of hybrid people in frontier zones, whether you're talking ancient Greeks, Romans, Mongols, British, or whoever else. Here's a good blog post on that: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/06/mackinders-revenge-and-the-rise-of-the-mongrels/

Social trust is also important, for obvious reasons, but it's not more important than innovation and advancement to the extent that the latter should be completely ignored in favor of the former.

There are ways to balance the two by analyzing the specific kinds of diversity that are most disastrous and which kinds of homogeneity produce the most favorable environments.

 

[theworldismine13]

bruh you basically said the exact opposite of what I posted.

like i said, i wasnt sure what you meant, but it sounded like your plan was to confront and address racism, did i miss something?

 

[acri1]

Well yeah if you can prove that is occurring systematically then yeah it is a violation of your individual rights and economic rights, there is nothing that I'm saying that precludes civil rights laws

I make the differentiation because I think it's important to understand that we can be succesful even if white people hate us, I think it can be corrosive in the long term if we think that our future is dependent on whether white people like us

IMO black people have confused fighting racism with having an economic plan, to the point where fighting racism IS the economic plan, this is the wrong path

I'm all for suing said company but the fundemantal reaction by black people to that story should be forming our own banks

I'm not sure the example I posted would be an example of 'individual' rights being violated, unless you could directly prove that one particular person was being affected. My point was just that some things really do need to be addressed beyond the individual level. And I don't advocate black people being dependent on white people liking us, my point is just that we shouldn't ignore or encourage racist thoughts/behaviors just because they aren't causing violence at the moment. It's bad for society. People have every right to think what they want, but that doesn't mean that certain ideas and thoughts aren't bad for society.

After all, people have every right to believe the world is 6000 years old if they want - but I'd do everything possible to discourage people from thinking that because I don't want to live in a country full of scientifically illiterate people.

I agree that fighting racism isn't in and of itself an economic plan, though I'm not sure people really think otherwise. I'd be curious as to what a black economic plan would actually look like though, I really have no idea. Do other socioeconomic groups have economic plans?

Yes. On a purely absolute moral level Wal Mart has a right to refuse to hire blacks (which comes along with black people boycotting as well a other groups - undermine their ultimate goal: market share).

The propper response is for a black person to found a huge employer and employ all black people.

If they can give you a job they can always take it away later. You make your own job ...

Also, it's great that niqqas get welfare (straight up checks, housing, food, spots in schools and corporations) but we are not owed welfare. Your black azz is SO FORTUNATE that the wgite people are so generous.

If we were smart we'd build something to withstand the winds of politics. Instead of worrying about them hiring you, we should have them coming to us looking for jobs. Anything less is just living in your grandmas basement. You better not make too much noise or your azz is out. Also, granny might not give you unlimited time to get on your feet. Eventually she might get tired of carrying you.

This is tough talk, but realistically every black person is not going to be self-employed.

Lofty goals are cool and all, and I'm all for black businesses, but come on. Realistically speaking, being ok with giving Walmart or any other huge employer the "moral" right to not hire minorities would be dumb and would leave a lot of people assed out.

 

[theworldismine13]

I'm not sure the example I posted would be an example of 'individual' rights being violated, unless you could directly prove that one particular person was being affected. My point was just that some things really do need to be addressed beyond the individual level. And I don't advocate black people being dependent on white people liking us, my point is just that we shouldn't ignore or encourage racist thoughts/behaviors just because they aren't causing violence at the moment. It's bad for society. People have every right to think what they want, but that doesn't mean that certain ideas and thoughts aren't bad for society.

After all, people have every right to believe the world is 6000 years old if they want - but I'd do everything possible to discourage people from thinking that because I don't want to live in a country full of scientifically illiterate people.

I agree that fighting racism isn't in and of itself an economic plan, though I'm not sure people really think otherwise. I'd be curious as to what a black economic plan would actually look like though, I really have no idea. Do other socioeconomic groups have economic plans?

that example is really a violation of economic rights because people were were being giving different rates for arbitrary reasons, but its the same difference in this case

if that case goes to court the whole premise of the case would be that an individual's economic rights were violated, if you cant prove that than you have no case

the whole premise of civil rights is individual rights, the legal premise of civil rights isnt morality, the genius and vision of people like dubois and thurgood marshall is that they premised their arguments on individual rights, if they had based their argument on morality they would not have gotten very far since this country is immoral when it comes to race

there is nothing wrong with making moral arguments, or even better, sprinkling morality into your legal arguments but my point is that if our plan is to go out and preach to white people about their immoral ways i would say that plan isnt going to get very far

im all for fighting racism and any other immoral behavior in society but its not something that i consider vital to black prosperity, the key to black prosperity is individual rights, economic rights, education and capitalism

 

[Ghost Utmost]

This is tough talk, but realistically every black person is not going to be self-employed.

Lofty goals are cool and all, and I'm all for black businesses, but come on. Realistically speaking, being ok with giving Walmart or any other huge employer the "moral" right to not hire minorities would be dumb and would leave a lot of people assed out.

Let's pretend I am Wal Mart. I wanna hire people to cut my grass. I hire whoever I want right? So let's say I use my neighbor's kid exclusively. Do I have an obligation to use a stranger if that stranger is more on need of a job?

You and most black people have this idea that you deserve things from the Government and big business. I am not arguing the deep philosophical reasons why they SHOULD be nice to us, I am talking aboud cold reality. If we depend on then then they can pull the plug anytime. Look at the Jews.. ever hear them complain about being denied jobs? They own big sh't so they can put one another on. This is the only permanent fix for black people.

You say it's unrealistic for blacks to create their own jobs. If this is true the we are FUKCED. That would mean there is something wrong with us.

 

[acri1]

Let's pretend I am Wal Mart. I wanna hire people to cut my grass. I hire whoever I want right? So let's say I use my neighbor's kid exclusively. Do I have an obligation to use a stranger if that stranger is more on need of a job?

You and most black people have this idea that you deserve things from the Government and big business. I am not arguing the deep philosophical reasons why they SHOULD be nice to us, I am talking aboud cold reality. If we depend on then then they can pull the plug anytime. Look at the Jews.. ever hear them complain about being denied jobs? They own big sh't so they can put one another on. This is the only permanent fix for black people.

You say it's unrealistic for blacks to create their own jobs. If this is true the we are FUKCED. That would mean there is something wrong with us.

I said it's unrealistic that EVERY black person will be self-employed.

But I guess you think every white person in the country (or Jew, for that matter) also works for themselves and would have no problem finding a job if they were laid off. Realistically, not everybody is cut out to be self-employed; this isn't specific to black people.

All of your Fox News-esque angst about how you feel black people want handouts from the govt or whatever is off topic.

 

[ugksam]

typical white person "why can't i say racist shyt all the time?" logic

 

[theworldismine13]

You say it's unrealistic for blacks to create their own jobs. If this is true the we are FUKCED. That would mean there is something wrong with us.

This is the real bottom line, people need to stop equating fighting racism with an actual economic plan

 

[ghostwriterx]

like i said, i wasnt sure what you meant, but it sounded like your plan was to confront and address racism, did i miss something?

Quick example: Addressing inequities in the judicial system (ex.crack/cocaine sentencing differences) that disproportionately affect people of color.

We need to confront and eliminate systemic racism, which is much more damaging than simple bigotry.

 

[Brown_Pride]

I'd post a direct link, but no good could come from that...

YOU SCURRED?
Post the link. Maybe we could have a "sister" board, sorta like Cities have sister cities...

 

[theworldismine13]

Quick example: Addressing inequities in the judicial system (ex.crack/cocaine sentencing differences) that disproportionately affect people of color.

We need to confront and eliminate systemic racism, which is much more damaging than simple bigotry.

Ok sure, I agree that that the drug laws need to be changed but the fact that it effects people of color is not the crux of the argument I would make

This is where I think the libertarian arguments are superior to leftist or racial arguments, the drug laws violate a lot of individual freedoms and give to much powers to the government, period

The racial aspect is more emotional than anything else