The Official Street Fighter 6 thread! We Open world fighting now?!

[NZA]

a drunken master not drinking liqor? shun di would body this man

 

[The G.O.D II]

I’m really surprised they are letting max do early impressions considering he didn’t hide his dislike for V and barely played it

 

[Volt]

I know the game has its detractors but there are few fighting games in existence that are as balanced as Street Fighter 5

I didn't say the game was not balanced.

I said the characters in SFV feel restrained. They usually have a clear effective range, weakness and gameplan with little room for variation.

 

[The Mad Titan]

This is not true

I know the game has its detractors but there are few fighting games in existence that are as balanced as Street Fighter 5

There hasn't been a character lower than C tier for the duration of the game, and the only argument for possible D tier was Gill. The game has hardly any 7-3 matchups. That's RARE for any fighting game

You won't find a set of top 32s, across any Street Fighter game, with more diversity than SF5

And no I'm not saying there are no "bad" characters in SF5, but SF5 bad is a lot better than most fgs

A proportionally high percentage of that cast has eaten good in tournaments

This is not true at all, SF5 wasn't balanced at all until this last patch/season

 

[Batsute]

This is not true at all, SF5 wasn't balanced at all until this last patch

breh you makin up tall tales now. Is this final patch the most balanced definitely, but since season 3 the game has been in a good spot. To the breh @O.Red point everybody was at C tier. Arguably the worst 3 characters were Kage, Alex, & Falke, but we’re completely viable outside of competitive play. If you wanna look at it at the competitive level your argument gets even worse.

Infil won with Juri at a Major
4phillz took a major with Falke
Idom was putting in work with a nerfed Laura
Nauman took EVO 2020 with Sakura


Y’all really don’t be putting respect on these players skills. If the game was so unbalanced why didnt Samurai run through everyone with Akuma pre 2020 or Tokido dominant with Luke at Topanga?

 

[The Mad Titan]

breh you makin up tall tales now. Is this final patch the most balanced definitely, but since season 3 the game has been in a good spot. To the breh @O.Red point everybody was at C tier. Arguably the worst 3 characters were Kage, Alex, & Falke, but we’re completely viable outside of competitive play. If you wanna look at it at the competitive level your argument gets even worse.

Infil won with Juri at a Major
4phillz took a major with Falke
Idom was putting in work with a nerfed Laura
Nauman took EVO 2020 with Sakura


Y’all really don’t be putting respect on these players skills. If the game was so unbalanced why didnt Samurai run through everyone with Akuma pre 2020 or Tokido dominant with Luke at Topanga?

Mid tier characters winning a tournament in the hands of some of the best players in the world does not make the game balanced.
Infil winning with juri doesn't mean cammy and akuma weren't dominating.
Philiz wining with falke doesn't mean guile and Rashid weren't dominating
Idom winning with Laura doesn't mean Kolin and Urien weren't dominating.
Sakura wining a major doesn't mean Bison wasn't dominating.
If you want to say most characters can win a Major if they get the right bracket, sure I'll give you that, but its much less to do with balance and more to do with just how Sf5 plays in general.
If your character has decent oki, V triggers, and buttons you can win.
Season 5 is actually balanced pretty well outside of Luke.

 

[O.Red]

Mid tier characters winning a tournament in the hands of some of the best players in the world does not make the game balanced.
Infil winning with juri doesn't mean cammy and akuma weren't dominating.
Philiz wining with falke doesn't mean guile and Rashid weren't dominating
Idom winning with Laura doesn't mean Kolin and Urien weren't dominating.
Sakura wining a major doesn't mean Bison wasn't dominating.
If you want to say most characters can win a Major if they get the right bracket, sure I'll give you that, but its much less to do with balance and more to do with just how Sf5 plays in general.
If your character has decent oki, V triggers, and buttons you can win.
Season 5 is actually balanced pretty well outside of Luke.

That's exactly what makes the game balanced breh the best players are an aggregate of where characters rank.

Street Fighter 5 is the most balanced SF, and arguably the most balanced fighting game ever made. Check a top 32 in any tournament and you'll see more of the cast than you would in ANY other fighting game. Sf5 is built so that the entire cast can eat if you construct a clean enough offense

And you can't say any of those characters were dominating in 5 when you compare it to other fighting games. There were only 2 Akuma's ever worth talking about in the entire world. And even during his best Akuma run Tokido wasn't dominating anything. Bison was dominating? There is ONE Bison that ever wins anything and Problem has gotten washed plenty of times. Please show me this Bison dominance you speak of.

The case for SF5 balance IS the lack of dominance. After season one you didn't see nonsense like 4 of the same character in top 8. Luke is easily the best character in the game and even then you don't see Luke dominance the way Yun dominated SF4

You mentioned how the game plays in general but that's the entire point. SF5 cast can eat because the game is constructed to give every character access to momentum. That momentum turns a lot of people off but that's what gave the game variety of cast

 

[O.Red]

I didn't say the game was not balanced.

I said the characters in SFV feel restrained. They usually have a clear effective range, weakness and gameplan with little room for variation.

I won't argue with you thinking the game feels restrained. It's a common complaint. But while this criticism has credence I think there is a larger issue with fighting games in recent years

Fighting game players have gotten too smart and don't realize it. Since twitter, YouTube, and the initial hype of SF5 the general skill level of fighting game players has risen and it's affected the way we play them. We learn 2 years worth of a game in a week now and that rapid development snowballs like it never has before

We're in an era where anybody off the street could know all the frames, optimal punishes, oki, etc for their characters. This has made everything look a lot more rigid than previous generations.

This is where SF5 angers a lot of people in a way they haven't been able to articulate. SF5 is a lot like chess. If you know less than your opponent you lose. It's extremely heavy on knowledge. This is a turn off to a player that might've gotten by on instinct in previous generations. The most enjoyable fighting games are more like poker, where skill level definitely matters, but there's an element of chance that makes the game unpredictable. This level of chance is nearly absent in SF5, and THATS where it lost so many people in terms of gameplay. It's arguably the hardest SF game there is

There's a deeper discussion about the evolution of turns and spacing in current fighting games that also lends to your point, but the brunt of this frustration has been laid at the feet of SF5 when it's a genre wide issue. Guilty Gear Strive has the same problem (WORSE in my opinion)

I tried not to write a fukkin article but

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

That's exactly what makes the game balanced breh the best players are an aggregate of where characters rank.

Street Fighter 5 is the most balanced SF, and arguably the most balanced fighting game ever made. Check a top 32 in any tournament and you'll see more of the cast than you would in ANY other fighting game. Sf5 is built so that the entire cast can eat if you construct a clean enough offense

And you can't say any of those characters were dominating in 5 when you compare it to other fighting games. There were only 2 Akuma's ever worth talking about in the entire world. And even during his best Akuma run Tokido wasn't dominating anything. Bison was dominating? There is ONE Bison that ever wins anything and Problem has gotten washed plenty of times. Please show me this Bison dominance you speak of.

The case for SF5 balance IS the lack of dominance. After season one you didn't see nonsense like 4 of the same character in top 8. Luke is easily the best character in the game and even then you don't see Luke dominance the way Yun dominated SF4

You mentioned how the game plays in general but that's the entire point. SF5 cast can eat because the game is constructed to give every character access to momentum. That momentum turns a lot of people off but that's what gave the game variety of cast

Exactly. Don't pay him no mind. He's being contrarian cuz he's goofy as fukk. At best, he's talking from an intermediate level of "dominance" which even still, due to the balance of the game, it's never really that lopsided either. He either don't realize or acting purely stupid to think that just cuz a game has some dominant/strong characters that the game can't be balanced. He needs a kufi slapping fr.

For better or worse, SFV has BEEN KNOWN to be the most balanced fighter out there and possibly ever, for the exact reasons you stated. Everyone that follows the game or FGC/fighting games in general have long known this. Some don't like it for that reason (not to say exclusively due to that reason) cuz some goofy FGCers either don't know what they really want or actually really want broken ass characters in their fighting games and that's one reason some didn't/don't like V is cuz there's not really any of that.

 

[ItWasWritten]

That guile trailer got me on board

 

[Volt]

I won't argue with you thinking the game feels restrained. It's a common complaint. But while this criticism has credence I think there is a larger issue with fighting games in recent years

Fighting game players have gotten too smart and don't realize it. Since twitter, YouTube, and the initial hype of SF5 the general skill level of fighting games has risen and it's affected the way we play them. We learn 2 years worth of a game in a week now and that rapid development snowballs like it never has before

We're in an era where anybody off the street could know all the frames, optimal punishes, oki, etc for their characters. This has made everything look a lot more rigid than previous generations.

This is where SF5 angers a lot of people in a way they haven't been able to articulate. SF5 is a lot like chess. If you know less than your opponent you lose. It's extremely heavy on knowledge. This is a turn off to a player that might've gotten by on instinct in previous generations. The most enjoyable fighting games are more like poker, where skill level definitely matters, but there's an element of chance that makes the game unpredictable. This level of chance is nearly absent in SF5, and THATS where it lost so many people in terms of gameplay. It's arguably the hardest SF game there is

There's a deeper discussion about the evolution of turns and spacing in current fighting games that also lends to your point, but the brunt of this frustration has been laid at the feet of SF5 but it's a genre wide issue. Guilty Gear Strive has the same problem (WORSE in my opinion)

I tried not to write a fukkin article but

I don't agree with everything you've said, but you raised some interesting points. Let's see how SF6 turns out, you might be right about FG players getting smarter across the board.

Edit: We got Just Frame Booms.


Luke also says "Perfect!" on that knuckle special he got on some footage, I guess this is not going to be exclusive to Guile.

 

[The Mad Titan]

That's exactly what makes the game balanced breh the best players are an aggregate of where characters rank.

Street Fighter 5 is the most balanced SF, and arguably the most balanced fighting game ever made. Check a top 32 in any tournament and you'll see more of the cast than you would in ANY other fighting game. Sf5 is built so that the entire cast can eat if you construct a clean enough offense

And you can't say any of those characters were dominating in 5 when you compare it to other fighting games. There were only 2 Akuma's ever worth talking about in the entire world. And even during his best Akuma run Tokido wasn't dominating anything. Bison was dominating? There is ONE Bison that ever wins anything and Problem has gotten washed plenty of times. Please show me this Bison dominance you speak of.

The case for SF5 balance IS the lack of dominance. After season one you didn't see nonsense like 4 of the same character in top 8. Luke is easily the best character in the game and even then you don't see Luke dominance the way Yun dominated SF4

You mentioned how the game plays in general but that's the entire point. SF5 cast can eat because the game is constructed to give every character access to momentum. That momentum turns a lot of people off but that's what gave the game variety of cast

You are looking at winning results strictly but ignoring top 16 that's were full of 4 different characters.

Sure there was a flake, but there where 3 cammys, 3 uriens, 3 Rashids, 3 Karin's, 3 bisons and a falke..


Typically that's how most majors went, whoever was top tier dominated all the spots in top 8/16 and sometimes a character specialists would sneak through and get 1st.



The game definitely hasn't been balanced, it's just that the mechanics and gimmicks can get you really far until you come across someone that knows how to deal with it.

Ever since oro and Akira dropped last year the game has been pretty balanced tho, additional of v shift really helped with that also.

 

[O.Red]

You are looking at winning results strictly but ignoring top 16 that's were full of 4 different characters.

Sure there was a flake, but there where 3 cammys, 3 uriens, 3 Rashids, 3 Karin's, 3 bisons and a falke..


Typically that's how most majors went, whoever was top tier dominated all the spots in top 8/16 and sometimes a character specialists would sneak through and get 1st.



The game definitely hasn't been balanced, it's just that the mechanics and gimmicks can get you really far until you come across someone that knows how to deal with it.

Ever since oro and Akira dropped last year the game has been pretty balanced tho, additional of v shift really helped with that also.

Not only is most of this not true you didn't even read my post correctly. You mentioned me looking at winning results strictly when I started my post with "check out a top 32 in any tournament"

It's easy to be hyperbolic and revisionist about past results in a game a lot of people don't like but this idea of single character dominated top 16s is false.

I'll even grant you 3 Cammys at one point. But who are these 3 Uriens, 3 Cammys, 3 Rashids? PLEASE find me the top 16 with 3 Bisons as a Bison main that has seen every tournament performance of any Bison worth a shyt your claim of 3 Bisons in any top 16 is CAP my nikka . There are 3 good Bison's in the world and they live in 3 different countries

And this idea you're trying to get off of getting by on gimmicks is not a thing in SF5. That's the reason people don't like and can be understandingly bored by it. In SF5 you don't lose because of a gimmick, you lose because your offense was worse than your opponents. You lost the momentum battle

 

[The Mad Titan]

Not only is most of this not true you didn't even read my post correctly. You mentioned me looking at winning results strictly when I started my post with "check out a top 32 in any tournament"

It's easy to be hyperbolic and revisionist about past results in a game a lot of people don't like but this idea of single character dominated top 16s is false.

I'll even grant you 3 Cammys at one point. But who are these 3 Uriens, 3 Cammys, 3 Rashids? PLEASE find me the top 16 with 3 Bisons as a Bison main that has seen every tournament performance of any Bison worth a shyt your claim of 3 Bisons in any top 16 is CAP my nikka . There are 3 good Bison's in the world and they live in 3 different countries

And this idea you're trying to get off of getting by on gimmicks is not a thing in SF5. That's the reason people don't like and can be understandingly bored by it. In SF5 you don't lose because of a gimmick, you lose because your offense was worse than your opponents. You lost the momentum battle

Capcom Pro Tour Top 8 Character Appearances in the Last 100 Events​

• Akuma - 67
• Karin - 61
• Cammy - 60
• M. Bison - 50
• Rashid - 46

• Ibuki - 38
• Urien - 37
• Zeku - 32
• Laura - 31
• R. Mika - 31

• Guile - 27
• Balrog - 26
• Birdie - 26
• G - 23
• Kolin - 22
• Dhalsim - 21
• Menat - 21
• Necalli - 21

• Chun-Li - 19
• Abigail - 17
• Ken - 17
• Vega - 17
• Sakura - 13
• Zangief - 12
• F.A.N.G - 10

• Nash - 6
• Poison - 6
• Seth - 6
• Blanka - 5
• Sagat - 4
• Alex - 3
• Cody - 3
• Juri - 2
• Kage - 2
• Ed - 1
• Falke - 1
• Gill - 1
• E. Honda - 1
• Ryu - 1

• Lucia - 0
• Rose - 0
• Dan - 0

And this is from last year

 

[Batsute]

And this is from last year

Highly biased considering we have 3 years of limited offline tourneys. That data set is heavily skewed towards the first 3 seasons.