The Official Street Fighter 6 thread! We Open world fighting now?!

[O.Red]

It's been so long since I played SF4 that I'm struggling to see the gouken/Manon parallels. I'm curious to hear where you're going with that.

I feel she's a few tweaks away tbh. Speed up her drive rush and give her a combo off cr mk on cc/pc. She'd instantly be way better.

Gouken was buffed in every version of SF4 and that made no difference. In situations like those I see it as a testament to the design of the character. You have designs like Vega or Guile, who are constantly 2-3 changes away from being broken, them you have designs like Gouken where they just can't get right

I'm not the Manon guy so I tried to avoid being too declarative about her but I think she's really badly designed. I think Capcom made some ambitious design choices and they just didn't work out in her case. Her normals are somewhat unique but they also happen to be some of the worst normals I've ever seen. The medals system seems like a good idea until you realize they designed the medal system then built a character around it. They were so afraid of making the system too strong they gave her this uncohesive toolbox, which also weakens the medals system anyway

I'm not saying she can't be made better. Her having a real drive rush would be a start and Cr mk confirm would make a difference, but I think fundamentally she's just a Gouken ass bytch

 

[Versa]

Gouken was buffed in every version of SF4 and that made no difference. In situations like those I see it as a testament to the design of the character. You have designs like Vega or Guile, who are constantly 2-3 changes away from being broken, them you have designs like Gouken where they just can't get right

I'm not the Manon guy so I tried to avoid being too declarative about her but I think she's really badly designed. I think Capcom made some ambitious design choices and they just didn't work out in her case. Her normals are somewhat unique but they also happen to be some of the worst normals I've ever seen. The medals system seems like a good idea until you realize they designed the medal system then built a character around it. They were so afraid of making the system too strong they gave her this uncohesive toolbox, which also weakens the medals system anyway

I'm not saying she can't be made better. Her having a real drive rush would be a start and Cr mk confirm would make a difference, but I think fundamentally she's just a Gouken ass bytch

Oh yeah he never became relevant no matter how many buffs he got


Random: has anyone ever played Under Night in Birth? Was thinking about giving 2 a spin when it drops in January but wanted to know what it's like in terms of difficulty.

 

[Batsute]

People are only using her due to pride and ego.

There's no way anyone can convince me they find her all that fun unless they haven't explored the rest of the roster and just hard locked her from day 1.

You don't get oki, you don't get to drive rush, and you're one of the only characters in the game who has no moves that are advantage on block.

The no real oki part means she doesn't even really get to snowball you.

She's one of the first characters I learned and I enjoyed challenging myself to play someone outside my comfort zone but I'd be lying if I said I missed you using her.

When a new SF drops I always go to the new characters and from a character design perspective she is only of the best that Capcom has produced. Yea she’s weak, but you’re also talking to a guy who dropped S3 Laura to main Kage. Manon can start to snowball you but the problem is it’s not gonna work twice, she’s just very one dimensional, and doesn’t get to maximize the Drive Gauge like the top tiers.

I find her fun especially when you pull off 5 medals in a round. Nikkas change up their whole strat.

I’m on the opposing side giving her a cr. mk as it starts to homogenize her gameplan. Just let her do what she does but better, give her better frame advantage, buff that weak ass twirl, make certain moves airborne. Her block strings are fukkin atrocious and TCs are useless.

 

[Versa]

I find her fun

 

[Clark Wayne]

Nah I like Manon too but her biggest problem is that her normals are some of if not the worst in the game.

They are either too slow or lack range. Sometimes both.

Capcom went all in on the medal system but said fukk everything else.

Her command grab damage isn’t even that good until level 4. Zangief’s heavy SPD beats all her grabs outside of level 5.

She needs some tweaks to her normals, a better DR and a buff to that damn near useless spin move for better projectile invulnerability.

Her Cr.Mk needs something too. If they don’t want it to be special cancelable or into DR make it 1f faster.

 

[Versa]

Nah I like Manon too but her biggest problem is that her normals are some of if not the worst in the game.

They are either too slow or lack range. Sometimes both.

Capcom went all in on the medal system but said fukk everything else.

Her command grab damage isn’t even that good until level 4. Zangief’s heavy SPD beats all her grabs outside of level 5.

She needs some tweaks to her normals, a better DR and a buff to that damn near useless spin move for better projectile invulnerability.

Her Cr.Mk needs something too. If they don’t want it to be special cancelable or into DR make it 1f faster.

After seeing you and @O.Red say the same thing about Manon's normals, I'm convinced I'm the one bugging when I say I don't feel they're bad

I feel the problem with Manon's normals is most of them don't really lead to any major damage but in terms of hitbox, range and speed are good.

I genuinely feel st mp, cr mp, cr mk, and st hk are good moves. Cr hp is one of the best AAs in the game. I don't know brehs.

I feel her normals are solid and literally everything else is the problem.

 

[xiceman191]

I don't think Manon has bad normals but in comparison to what she gets off of them vs other characters her normals seem lackluster.

 

[JuvenileHell]

make all of manons normals cancelable into DR

 

[O.Red]

Nah I like Manon too but her biggest problem is that her normals are some of if not the worst in the game.

They are either too slow or lack range. Sometimes both.

Capcom went all in on the medal system but said fukk everything else.

Her command grab damage isn’t even that good until level 4. Zangief’s heavy SPD beats all her grabs outside of level 5.

She needs some tweaks to her normals, a better DR and a buff to that damn near useless spin move for better projectile invulnerability.

Her Cr.Mk needs something too. If they don’t want it to be special cancelable or into DR make it 1f faster.

It's not that they said fukk everything else, they were afraid of what they created. This has been shown to be the design philosophy of SF6. It's full of monkey paws

Look at a character like Lily. Wind buff Condor Spire is probably the best special move in the game but outside of that Lily is underwhelming because they were afraid of breaking her. There's also the fact that Capcom really wants you to use the Drive System which is powerful in itself so there's a lot of ambitious leaps with training wheels

The problem I have with this design philosophy is they clearly didn't have all this caution in mind when they made Ken, JP, and Luke

 

[Batsute]

Nah I like Manon too but her biggest problem is that her normals are some of if not the worst in the game.

They are either too slow or lack range. Sometimes both.

Capcom went all in on the medal system but said fukk everything else.

Her command grab damage isn’t even that good until level 4. Zangief’s heavy SPD beats all her grabs outside of level 5.

She needs some tweaks to her normals, a better DR and a buff to that damn near useless spin move for better projectile invulnerability.

Her Cr.Mk needs something too. If they don’t want it to be special cancelable or into DR make it 1f faster.

That’s the thing breh people really overhype her st.mp it advances her just enough to get fukked up. Any high level player is just waiting for you to throw out a button to punish you, then if they are playing keep away or neutral jumping its hell. Just decrease the damage on or hit grab for better oki.

I think the battle designers went all in on the judo methodology of anticipation & punish for her, but it doesn’t work when half the cast ignores her gameplan.

Now that I think about you can really split the roster into “who I respect” vs “who I don’t”

 

[O.Red]

After seeing you and @O.Red say the same thing about Manon's normals, I'm convinced I'm the one bugging when I say I don't feel they're bad

I feel the problem with Manon's normals is most of them don't really need to any major damage but in terms of hitbox, range and speed are good.

I genuinely feel st mp, cr mp, cr mk, and st hk are good moves. Cr hp is one of the best AAs in the game. I don't know brehs.

I feel her normals are solid and literally everything else is the problem.

The problem, which sounds silly but really think about it when you look at her, is Manon's normals don't match her body

Manon is listed as 5'11 but on the screen she's the same size as 6'8 Marisa. This bytch is enormous but her normals are stunted and visually retracted. Am I the only one that's stopped and thought about how fukkin silly her cr mp looks? Her cr mk looks stupid as hell too. Her normals don't align with the body that's on the screen so what does that make Manon? A big sack of hurtboxes

It hurts my soul watching Manon matches. Seeing this bytch just get hit by shyt. Normals having just enough range to get counter hit Again it sounds silly on its face but a big stubby character is terrible design

For an example that might provide more clarity look at a character like Kage in SF5. Look at Ryu's normals then look at how retracted and stubby Kage's normals are with the exact same body That's the Manon issue

 

[O.Red]

That’s the thing breh people really overhype her st.mp it advances her just enough to get fukked up. Any high level player is just waiting for you to throw out a button to punish you, then if they are playing keep away or neutral jumping its hell. Just decrease the damage on or hit grab for better oki.

I think the battle designers went all in on the judo methodology of anticipation & punish for her, but it doesn’t work when half the cast ignores her gameplan.

Now that I think about you can really split the roster into “who I respect” vs “who I don’t”

Basically Manon just be running into shyt

This what makes Idom's "Guys I really love Manon" bullshyt funny because he'll say that but you watch his streams and this nikka sitting there with the while nikkas flashing green and having their way with her

And yea you can see the design they were going for but they gave nikkas no reason to respect it

 

[xiceman191]

I just want to get this bytch to Master. It shouldn't be this hard Also is it me or does he have a slow ass long ass jump I be jumping over fireballs and try to punish that shyt and be getting hit with a shoryuken

 

[Versa]

I just want to get this bytch to Master. It shouldn't be this hard Also is it me or does he have a slow ass long ass jump I be jumping over fireballs and try to punish that shyt and be getting hit with a shoryuken

It's probably harder now than it was for me when I did it months ago, but it can definitely be done. No characters is bad to the point where reaching master should be anything other than you mastering the character's basics and not handing games away.

If anyone is still not at master level after trying, give me some matches to watch here or via DM. I'm by no means some incredible player but I could most likely tell you exactly what you're doing wrong quickly and efficiently.

 

[The Mad Titan]