The Official Socialism/Democratic Socialism/Communism/Marxism Thread

[Tate]

But if leadership is demonic how can it work?

Everyone has to be on board with caring about human beings for this system to work but people with absolute power don't care about other human beings due to the lawless nature that absolute power breeds.

I agree. That's partly why I'm more sympathetic to Christianity than most Marxists. The Christian moral is a net positive for society, and in a socialistic system provides important esoteric incentive.

Verbal virtuosity at its finest

I forgot about Jesus teachings on the market

 

[Mr. Somebody]

I agree. That's partly why I'm more sympathetic to Christianity than most Marxists. The Christian moral is a net positive for society, and in a socialistic system provides important esoteric incentive.



I forgot about Jesus teachings on the market

How can you have socialism in a nation as racist as america

 

[Tate]

How can you have socialism in a nation as racist as america

You can't. The only way to achieve socialism is to end toxic racial conflict. The way to do that is through radical mass movement that bridges invented racial gaps and addresses real class issues,

 

[Mr. Somebody]

You can't. The only way to achieve socialism is to end toxic racial conflict. The way to do that is through radical mass movement that bridges invented racial gaps and addresses real class issues,

Is racial identity an important virtue under socialism. How can you have love and separation. Doesn't love mean race goes away since everyone will be with everyone at some point.

 

[Tate]

Is racial identity an important virtue under socialism. How can you have love and separation. Doesn't love mean race goes away since everyone will be with everyone at some point.

Modern conceptions of race were invented with the protection of society's hierarchy in mind. Racial identity is simply a celebration of division, at best, it's reveling in struggle. Racial identity isn't a virtue in socialism because in a classless, stateless society, there's no need for racial solidarity. The founding principle of socialism is love for your fellow man and a commitment to better both your world's. In a real socialism, love and justice for all goes past any invented divisions of capitalism.

However in the attempts at socialism we've see in our world, nationality and race have played a detrimental role. The hereseies of Lenin and Stalin created a pseudo socialism in large part based around reactionary Russian chauvinism. The multi ethnic nature of the USSR was clearly a factor in its defects. From attempts to unveil Muslim women to Gorbachev's blind spot on Baltic nationalism, efforts to control or help the local populations were resented. I would argue that the resentments were mainly a result of the top down tolitarianism of Marxist-Leninism and its acceptance of Russian chauvinism. This leads me to believe that a less centralized, bureaucratic state lending more control to workers councils could better handle ethnic differences.. However, for socialism, and later communism to take hold a world movement is necessary. A polarized conflict between socialist and capitalist states always benefits capitalism because capitalism is compatible with jingoistic nationalism. Whereas an international socialist state is not and can not be be nationalist or chauvinist, for then it is no longer international and will undoubtedly accept more heresies that will sink it's basic tenets.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Modern conceptions of race were invented with the protection of society's hierarchy in mind. Racial identity is simply a celebration of division, at best, it's reveling in struggle. Racial identity isn't a virtue in socialism because in a classless, stateless society, there's no need for racial solidarity. The founding principle of socialism is love for your fellow man and a commitment to better both your world's. In a real socialism, love and justice for all goes past any invented divisions of capitalism.

However in the attempts at socialism we've see in our world, nationality and race have played a detrimental role. The hereseies of Lenin and Stalin created a pseudo socialism in large part based around reactionary Russian chauvinism. The multi ethnic nature of the USSR was clearly a factor in its defects. From attempts to unveil Muslim women to Gorbachev's blind spot on Baltic nationalism, efforts to control or help the local populations were resented. I would argue that the resentments were mainly a result of the top down tolitarianism of Marxist-Leninism and its acceptance of Russian chauvinism. This leads me to believe that a less centralized, bureaucratic state lending more control to workers councils could better handle ethnic differences.. However, for socialism, and later communism to take hold a world movement is necessary. A polarized conflict between socialist and capitalist states always benefits capitalism because capitalism is compatible with jingoistic nationalism. Whereas an international socialist state is not and can not be be nationalist or chauvinist, for then it is no longer international and will undoubtedly accept more heresies that will sink it's basic tenets.

Don't all forms of capitalism have to be erased before socal ism can actually take and keep hold.


Don't the benefits of capitalism give people who have more drive or a greater work ethic then others incentive to betray their nation that provides them a perceived menial existence friend When a capitalist nation gives them more reward for their work.

Russia for example their products weren't current and they were in a manufactured bubble that put forceful barriers between the people and global trends and or pop culture compared to capitalist nations which help create contempt. Is freedom overrated in socialism?

With the Berlin crisis the differences in available goods made the divisions of East and west more painful.

 

[Tate]

Don't all forms of capitalism have to be erased before socal ism can actually take and keep hold.


Don't the benefits of capitalism give people who have more drive or a greater work ethic then others incentive to betray their nation that provides them a perceived menial existence friend When a capitalist nation gives them more reward for their work.

Russia for example their products weren't current and they were in a manufactured bubble that put forceful barriers between the people and global trends and or pop culture compared to capitalist nations which help create contempt. Is freedom overrated in socialism?

With the Berlin crisis the differences in available goods made the divisions of East and west more painful.

Yes. Socialism is only sustainable on a global scale. Division is inherently beneficial for capitalism

 

[OsO]

Debatable

Absurd

Come wit it

 

[Tate]

Come wit it

Birtually every conflict of the past 200 years can be attributed to capitalism.

 

[AJaRuleStan]

>That example didn't have the "right" leaders fam.

r-right, I'm sure pure socialism could work when the nature of man is able to be modified or some technology AI is put in as a third party.

 

[EndDomination]

How did you guys come to your current political views? @ everyone in this thread not just the socialists... we're you like this in college/highschool etc?

I used to be what you would call a "conservative" when I was young... like 11-12-13-14-15 (I was a braniac kid so I followed politics)... I rooted for Bush over Kerry in 2004 and supported the Iraq war (again I was a kid)

As I got older in highschool I fell into conspiracy theories... 9/11 stuff () and became a Ron Paul stan like heavy in the game from like 16-18... I still didn't really care about economics or how things like that worked so I thought Libertarianism was very rational, and it is at face value.

From like the financial crisis onward, I really wanted to understand what happened and I think that single event taught me more about anything than my years at college ever will. I formed my entire ideology based off really what happened in those few months and from then the missing pieces of the puzzle started to all fill in. I still am very hawkish probably because of my conservative leanings of the past and I am very pro liberty but I think the reality of the true workings of the world were made clear by the Lehman Collapse.

I've been a Socialist since I was like 12, part of it was being raised religiously (and being a voracious reader, so the passages about sharing wealth made perfect sense to me), I was also big into the Boondocks, and watched a lot of History Channel so I was introduced to the world of atrocities that capitalism was at the helm of from a pretty early age.
Since then, I've tweaked my philosophy constantly, but I'm still about the same politically as I was then (I'm 19, now).

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Birtually every conflict of the past 200 years can be attributed to capitalism.

Weren't the seeds of the cold war started by stalin

 

[JahFocus CS]

If the working class is not in control of the means of production, how is it socialism/communism? If there are "leaders" who are not elected and do not represent workers, they are nothing more than bosses, possibly in a different form from the boss of private capitalism but a boss nonetheless.

 

[Tate]

Weren't the seeds of the cold war started by stalin

Mutual aggression from the start of the 1917 revolution. Stalin probably takes the most blame out of any individual however.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"We must strangle the infant Bolshevism in its cradle." - Winston Churchill