Essential The Official MMA Thread

[OfTheCross]

I think he's already top 5 p4p of all time. If he beats Conor he definitely is. I'm very biased about Aldo, but I think he has one of the best resumes in the sport's history. I wonder how long he'll fight if he wins this weekend. Honestly I think he wants to retire sooner than later.



That's a well thought out argument. Would you at least say he's the best ever below 170 lbs?



Bellator is like 2 promotions. It's weird. On one hand they're a pretty solid promotion that tries to put on competitive fights, and then on the other hand they have the freakshow fight and pro wrestling element sort of rolled up into one. I think that Scott Coker is trying to use the pro wrestling and freak show fight element to get enough views and asses in the seats until they can get some more competitive fighters. If they just had a few of some top 10 division guys over there, they could start to be more of a player. I hope Viacom doesn't look at the short term game the way they did with Glory and cut Bellator early. Bellator has potential IMO.

As long as they're not costing Viacom money they'll be fine. Coker kept Strikeforce in the black so they should be OK.


No lie, I really want to see Bendo move to Bellator if the money is right.

 

[storyteller]

That's a well thought out argument. Would you at least say he's the best ever below 170 lbs?

Hell yes! It's him and then everybody else.

That's a solid list. IMO you gotta have Jones, GSP, and Silva on the GOAT list. The LHW strap was a game of hot potato before Jones got it. I can actually see arguments against Fedor, but he's one of my 3 personal favorite fighters ever and I think there are good reasons for him being top 5 all time p4p. I also think the cage really threw Fedor off. He's a ring fighter without a doubt. The way he tried to get out of that Werdum triangle and ran right into the cage just showed me he really didn't have that cage awareness.

Yeah, Fedor is the one who in retrospect is the easiest to question. His resume and success kinda loses luster, but he has some of the most memorable fights in MMA history which makes it tougher to judge him without bias. The big nog and Crocop fights should be a requirement for fight heads. Speaking of Werdum, this dude is a win over Cain away from being the hardest fighter to rate in the game imo. He's got submission wins over the top three HW's of all time and two of those cats were damn near impossible to submit in their careers.

Do you think the Silva PED issue takes anything away from him? I don't, but I'm also a bit of a Silva stan.

Same boat fam. I don't take away anything at all, but I'm a straight up stan. The precision and technique he had wouldn't be helped by juicing and if anything, he probably shoulda been on something to fight Ryo Chonan when he was injured all over and still needed a miracle to lose.

Serra changed GSP forever and he went from dominating and killing guys like Trigg, Sherk, and Huges to being more of a safe fighter, but he may have the most impressive resume on your list. Avenged his only two losses ever and is one of the only people to be active through 3 eras of 170 fighters. He got gifted with his last fight, but a win is a win I guess.

Yeah, he ended on top which is something I doubt anyone else will do (though Aldo said he wants to). He fought really safe, but he also has some of the craziest domination records to boot. Unless something's changed he had the most consecutive rounds won by a massive margin in his prime. He got away with one on the Hendricks fight, but it was close enough where you can always use the argument "you have to beat the champ to take the belt" imo...but it's a shaky argument.

I really hate BJ Penn isn't on that list. Sometimes I wonder if he could've done it if he had stayed with the Marinovich brothers and/or stayed at 155 instead of trying to fight above his weight all the time. I don't know why he fought Rory, Fitch, and Diaz. Marinovich BJ Penn was special. I'm salty but he got robbed in that 1st Edgar fight and I think he could've beat Edgar in that 2nd fight if he would've tried to go to the floor. The 3rd I don't know wtf was going on.

BJ is a "what coulda been" story like no other. This cat was a pretty clear 155'er but kept going up to 170 and even fought bigger guys (I remember watching him fight Lyoto before I really knew how good dude was). Dude shoulda stuck at 155 and below, probably could have trained a hell of a lot harder and really got by as a complete freak of nature. Aldo's number 1 under 170 and BJ is number 2 for me without a doubt. Prime BJ would be on any P4P list in any era, dude was that good. He and Chuck have the ugliest ends to their careers, dudes who just needed to let it go a lot sooner. to that whole discussion fam, much respect to your knowledge.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Hell yes! It's him and then everybody else.

Daps and reps to your knowledge as well! I agree. It's Aldo and everyone else once you dip under 170.

Yeah, Fedor is the one who in retrospect is the easiest to question. His resume and success kinda loses luster, but he has some of the most memorable fights in MMA history which makes it tougher to judge him without bias. The big nog and Crocop fights should be a requirement for fight heads. Speaking of Werdum, this dude is a win over Cain away from being the hardest fighter to rate in the game imo. He's got submission wins over the top three HW's of all time and two of those cats were damn near impossible to submit in their careers.

Fedor was so special man. Big Nog was the man and personally my favorite heavyweight ever just because he repped BJJ so well, and then his whole trilogy with Fedor is just essential viewing like you said, even if took years off Nog's life. Werdum is tricky indeed. He's the only guy as far as I know to win IBJJF Worlds/Mundials, Abu Dhabi (ADCC) gold, and UFC gold. You're right. 3 sub wins over 3 of the best. The next couple years will tell us a lot IMO. I want to see him vs Jones at some point.

Same boat fam. I don't take away anything at all, but I'm a straight up stan. The precision and technique he had wouldn't be helped by juicing and if anything, he probably shoulda been on something to fight Ryo Chonan when he was injured all over and still needed a miracle to lose.

Same. Even if Silva was on PEDs, I just don't think it can make you like Neo in The Matrix. Read this article, it's worth it. It's a short blog post and it's awesome. The guy sort of paints him as an a$$hole but it's still a good read: My Story About Meeting Anderson Silva

Yeah, he ended on top which is something I doubt anyone else will do (though Aldo said he wants to). He fought really safe, but he also has some of the craziest domination records to boot. Unless something's changed he had the most consecutive rounds won by a massive margin in his prime. He got away with one on the Hendricks fight, but it was close enough where you can always use the argument "you have to beat the champ to take the belt" imo...but it's a shaky argument.

I've never had a problem with the "you have the beat the champ to be the champ argument" even though logically I guess it doesn't make any sense. I used it myself when I was angry about Griffin beating 'Page lol. Same when Edgar beat Penn the first time. I hope GSP doesn't come back. He dominantly avenged his only 2 losses and he has nothing else to prove.

BJ is a "what coulda been" story like no other. This cat was a pretty clear 155'er but kept going up to 170 and even fought bigger guys (I remember watching him fight Lyoto before I really knew how good dude was). Dude shoulda stuck at 155 and below, probably could have trained a hell of a lot harder and really got by as a complete freak of nature. Aldo's number 1 under 170 and BJ is number 2 for me without a doubt. Prime BJ would be on any P4P list in any era, dude was that good. He and Chuck have the ugliest ends to their careers, dudes who just needed to let it go a lot sooner. to that whole discussion fam, much respect to your knowledge.

BJ Penn is my jiu-jitsu teacher's teacher, so I'm very biased, but I think he just had so much raw talent. Just curious breh, who do you give that first GSP/BJ fight to? The one thing I really do respect about BJ is that he really did have a warrior spirit and fought anyone and everyone. I remember he even tried to fight Roy Jones Jr. It hurts because I know BJ is watching older guys like Mark Hunt and Andre Arlovski having these comebacks and I think a part of him really wants that. He's a natural fighter and even though he's retired a couple of times now I think he really really wants to be out there.

Who you got for this weekend?

 

[NasirJr]

Put it this way, he's fought some of the best but he also had mixed levels of competition that come with a developing division. He's got the longevity, dominance and a nice resume but his resume of wins doesn't far exceed the guys who fought in and dominated developing divisions with big name wins and then some throw aways. He has a strong case for fifth all time, but I wouldn't put him above the top four. I'll fully admit I'm biased though, I remember Liddell and Rua's dominance and Bas Rutten's iconic performances but I was growing up watching them. Aldo's dominance happened at a point where I'm tougher to please.

Aldo's top five opponents imo: Franky, Faber, Mendes, Florian, Brown....I'd say 2 HOF locks and 2 debatables (3 champions including WEC since it's the only fair way to judge FW's)
Liddell: Couture, Ortiz, Belfort (in his juicing prime), Overeem and Sobral... 3 HOF locks and 1 long shot HOF'er (3 champions)
Rua: Rampage, Lyoto, Overeem, Liddell, Griffin or Little Nog (it's a who's who of the best LHW's of his prime and after his prime)

The guys I put a notch above
Jones: Rampage, Rua, Vitor, Cormier and one of Lyoto or Rashad...probably got 6 HOF'ers (6 champions)
GSP: Hughes, Penn, Diaz, Hendricks and Condit...3 HOF'ers and a couple of guys that have a ways to go (2 UFC champions and 2 WEC champions with Diaz also holding the Strikeforce belt)
Silva: Franklin, Belfort, Diaz, Griffin, Sonnen (3 champions and 2 WEC champs)
Fedor: Crocop, Big Nog, Coleman, Sylvia and Arlovski (adding the last two since they held UFC titles but a lot of his resume is at that level imo; 4 champions plus a grand prix winner)

Ehh i guess i would put Jon and GSP over him but i have him right on the same level of Anderson in terms of the competition hes defeated. Im saying man if he beats Mcgregor he is one of the goats, not that i dont think he is now its just it will solidify it.

I think he's already top 5 p4p of all time. If he beats Conor he definitely is. I'm very biased about Aldo, but I think he has one of the best resumes in the sport's history. I wonder how long he'll fight if he wins this weekend. Honestly I think he wants to retire sooner than later.

I'll be if he retires after this fight.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Ehh i guess i would put Jon and GSP over him but i have him right on the same level of Anderson in terms of the competition hes defeated. Im saying man if he beats Mcgregor he is one of the goats, not that i dont think he is now its just it will solidify it.


I'll be if he retires after this fight.

I can't really argue with that. The GSP or Silva on who is better has always been an interesting debate to me. GSP has less losses, and arguably fought tougher competition, but I don't even think that's set in stone. Silva fought a few tomato cans but so did GSP, like Dan Hardy for example. It may be stupid logic because a W is a W but the WAY that Silva beat his opponents is why I put him over GSP. I haven't decided how the PED thing affects my opinion yet, or even if it does. But Silva front kicking Belfort, KO'ing Griffin with a jab, throwing a missile knee into Sonnen, rear naked choking Henderson, crumbling Bonnar with a knee to the liver, rearranging Rich Franklin's face twice, triangling Sonnen after almost 25 mins of getting his ass kicked on the brink of defeat, or even his laser guided bombs on Leben's head in his debut---all of these things are moments that I'll remember more than GSP's fights.

With GSP, Jon Fitch was probably his last most memorable fight to me where I felt like he really beat the shyt out of someone and didn't just win the scorecards.I respect GSP's ability to fight like a robot the you'd program to fight. Fight as efficiently as possible and take as little damage as possible, mitigating risk and staying safe first and foremost.

 

[LinusCaldwell]

 

[Screwface Exchange]

We gotta remember with BJ as well he had to go up to 170 as that where the big money fights were. 155 was still developing back then and though there was some solid fighters there, they weren't household names yet.

When BJ went back to 155 he really helped launch that division to the casual fan, which is something hard to do. And also something Aldo gets respect for as he has launched his division.

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Ran into Gabriel Gonzaga and Jacare

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Check my website www.fteswl.com and Twitter www.twitter.com/FTESWL for open workout videos

 

[Ralph Wiggum]

Check my website www.fteswl.com and Twitter www.twitter.com/FTESWL for open workout videos

Are you going to all 3 fights?

 

[storyteller]

Who you got for this weekend?

On 1575 I did a predictions post to explain my picks (that ish is long though) here's my straight up picks:
Rose, Sage, Mendes, Conor, Luke, Jacare, Holloway, Cerrone (pure bias pick, I prolly should go RDA), JDS...and to throw it in I think Saul wins the Ultimate Fighter tournament over Artem.

Honestly though, I could see myself getting the whole list wrong. I'm pretty sure three title changes in one weekend would be historic and doubt that happens...more likely two guys retain, but when I look at the match-ups I pretty much went size and favoritism lol

 

[storyteller]

Yo did yall see the pics of Jon Jones next to Arlovski?

Photos: Jon Jones looks massive next to Arlovski, talks 'much better life' at heavyweight

First point: This dude is terrifying, unless his gas tank is severely depleted I can't see anyone at 205 beating him unless he gets caught (and the only one I think could have the KO power on one strike is Rumble).

Second point: That bloated look in the gut is gonna get the "he's juicing" heads in a frenzy. I'm not saying he's doing it, just that the growth combined with a more bloated look is gonna have same cats who scrutinized the hell out of his test levels on drug tests going HAM with assumptions.

 

[Amare's Right Hook]

Yo did yall see the pics of Jon Jones next to Arlovski?

Photos: Jon Jones looks massive next to Arlovski, talks 'much better life' at heavyweight

First point: This dude is terrifying, unless his gas tank is severely depleted I can't see anyone at 205 beating him unless he gets caught (and the only one I think could have the KO power on one strike is Rumble).

Second point: That bloated look in the gut is gonna get the "he's juicing" heads in a frenzy. I'm not saying he's doing it, just that the growth combined with a more bloated look is gonna have same cats who scrutinized the hell out of his test levels on drug tests going HAM with assumptions.

He's on it

 

[LinusCaldwell]

Keep checking www.twitter.com/FTESWL we were at the media conference

 

[Monster]

Fedor vs Crocop from the Refs Pov



You really see how close a lot of shyt is from the Refs Cam