The only way it would've happened was after Netanyahu. Everyone knew this. Before all this kicked off he was fighting off increasing opposition internally but yeah that's definitely a distance memory at this point....
The Official Israel-Gaza Thread
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
So then you wrote a wall of text because?
Because Israel was not interested in that before Netenyahu and now that monster is looking at real estate.
Israel has never wanted a 2 state solution and the US is uninterested in facilitating that.
don't act like im some sort of apologist, short-sighted, or reactive on this - i've never been that in this thread
but if a 'wall of text' (and you've entertained much, much worse
) is too much then please excuse me for dumbing this down further;continue to gradually erode the grasp of the adversary
or
crash out for weak promises from groups that hate adversary more than they've ever cared about you, galvanize your adversary's support, and get your people butchered to the point where the outside world becomes simply exhausted and indifferent to it
i don't even know how there can be a reasonable 'sinwar had the right idea' dialogue in here but 'netanyahu's eventual departure would've opened more pathways' is somehow utterly outrageous given the results
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
You said there was a small chance before Oct. 7. There wasn’t. It is a wall of text of hope.don't act like im some sort of apologist, short-sighted, or reactive on this - i've never been that in this thread
but if a 'wall of text' (and you've entertained much, much worse
continue to gradually erode the grasp of the adversary
or
crash out for weak promises from groups that hate adversary more than they've ever cared about you, galvanize your adversary's support, and get your people butchered to the point where the outside world becomes simply exhausted and indifferent to it
i don't even know how there can be a reasonable 'sinwar had the right idea' dialogue in here but 'netanyahu's eventual departure would've opened more pathways' is somehow utterly outrageous given the results
I am not defending Oct. 7 attack, but we have to be honest about the 2-state nonsense as well. It was never going to happen and everyone knew it. Idk how I would act in a desperate situation like that. Don’t commit the atrocity, but that was happening to their people for decades.
They been talking about a 2-state solution a since the 80s, and some how Israel gains more land even before Oct. 7. We have to be honest about that. It was some snide thing thrown out there that the people in power have never seriously pushed to see.
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ADevilYouKhow
Rhyme Reason
don't act like im some sort of apologist, short-sighted, or reactive on this - i've never been that in this thread
but if a 'wall of text' (and you've entertained much, much worse
continue to gradually erode the grasp of the adversary
or
crash out for weak promises from groups that hate adversary more than they've ever cared about you, galvanize your adversary's support, and get your people butchered to the point where the outside world becomes simply exhausted and indifferent to it
i don't even know how there can be a reasonable 'sinwar had the right idea' dialogue in here but 'netanyahu's eventual departure would've opened more pathways' is somehow utterly outrageous given the results
Sharon effectively killed the 2-state solution when he became PM. Netanyahu undermined it from 1996-1999 before Barak beat him.
Ehud Barak would have gotten it done if he didn't lose that election in 2001. The Taba Summit had real momentum and they were weeks away from a deal. It wouldn't have been perfect. They wouldn't be a full sovereign state but the Palestinian people would not be stateless and would no longer be an occupied peoples. It was better than what Clinton was pushing at Camp David during the 2000 election.
The proposals from both the Israelis and Palestinians were closer at Taba.
^Yal are too used to going back and forth with people that never intended a good faith post in the first place.
And if you want to debate that point cool - However, arguing that Oct 7's attack was going to put Palestine in a better position is objectively lunacy.
?? There absolutely was - and it resided in Israel post-Netanyahu. There was never a zero chance. Hurdles? Absolutely. Easy? fukk no.
And if you want to debate that point cool - However, arguing that Oct 7's attack was going to put Palestine in a better position is objectively lunacy.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
Have you read up on Israeli politics the last 10 years? The extreme right has gotten Netenyahu into power. He is actually under electoral threat from people to the right of him. Idk man, I don’t think this was ever going to happen.
I don’t think it’s made the Palestinian state under Hamas leadership a possibility, but it has delegitimized the Israeli government to many states across the globe, especially Western Europe.
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Man, WTF man
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
What's been happening in Gaza over the past year is by no means the normal course of action between Israel and the Palestinians. The scope and scale of devastation is categorically different than the bloodshed we've seen in the past. When Israel used to go into the Occupied Territories and "mow the lawn", this isn't what they did. October 7th wasn't just another normal operation by Palestinian forces in the history of the conflict. The unbridled, genocidal bloodlust we've seen from Israel that has completely destroyed Gaza isn't just another normal event in the history of the conflict. The people in the region have been rattled. People of good conscience around the world have been rattled. The only people who haven't been rattled are the ignorant, the sadistic, or the contingent of people with stunted emotional development who adopt this affected callousness in the face of seeing a Palestinian child with their head blown open like they're trying to not give their girl the ick.
The metric is progress towards the actualization of a state for Palestinians. I do not believe this will happen through Israel being bombed into submission by forces and nations allied with the Palestinian cause. I think it will be come through the international political/legal/economic pressure, much like Apartheid South Africa. An entire generation has been exposed to the true brutal nature of the state of Israel. But if you're already referring to the anti-genocide protests as "misplaced" when in fact it's one of the most accurate and specific protest movements we've ever seen, you're most likely disinclined to feel the earth moving beneath your feet.
You call the notion of human rights a joke, which is your prerogative. But then I ask you, what would you have had the Palestinians do? You say it was a mistake to strike out and fight for their lives because the response has been being massacred by a much more powerful enemy. Ok. But then you criticize the appeal to rights in institutions of non-violence as "whimsical romanticism" because they don't have the direct material enforcement power of violence. You're basically telling someone on the 6th floor of a burning building that if they jump they better survive. Again, I ask, what should the Palestinians have done?
Palestinians know they cannot defeat Israel on the battlefield. Contrary to dumbass Israeli propaganda, the strategic goal of Operation Al Aqsa Flood was not to retake the land that constitutes modern day Israel, or kill every Israeli in the country. It was to provoke Israel into displaying to the world the inhumanity at the heart of their occupation and delegitimize the Zionist entity in the eyes of the United States and the international community - the only entities with power over Israel - so they can force Israel into a just resolution to this crisis. In this way, Sinwar won.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Hamas Leader Yahya Sinwar Depicts Palestinian Casualties As ‘Necessary Sacrifices’
Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, who masterminded Hamas’s October 7 atrocities, portrayed the deaths of Palestinian civilians as a welcome sacrifice in his personal correspondence, The...
www.fdd.org
keep sipping the kool aid
Dillah810
Flat Girther
“Heart of the empire” fukk you tankies are cringe. Aren’t you a Chinese person that lives in the west? You can’t even liberate your local Whole Foods. Stfu.
Pure fantasy and delusional cope. Where is Israel being forced by the “international community” into a resolution to this crisis? The US is right now transferring state of the art air defense systems to Israel as they are likely going to start bombing Lebanon and Iran in force. Where is this withdrawn support? Where is the international community blockading trade to Israel or any meaningful retort?
DESPITE WAR, EGYPTIAN TRADE WITH ISRAEL IS UP 53% IN FIRST SIX MONTHS OF 2024 - All Arab News
Tensions between Egypt and Israel have certainly increased since 3,000 Hamas terrorists invaded Israel from Gaza on October 7, 2023, resulting in a full-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip by the Israeli Defense Forces. At times over the past eleven months, Egypt has played an important — and at...
allarab.news
MOROCCAN TRADE WITH ISRAEL SHOOTS UP 64% IN 2024, DESPITE RAGING ARAB-ISRAELI WARS - All Arab News
The Kingdom of Morocco was the fourth Arab state four years ago to sign peace and normalization agreements with the State of Israel, following the path blazed by the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, and Sudan. Remarkably, economic relations between Morocco and the Jewish state — though modest —...
allarab.news
Israel-UAE trade to hit $3.3B in 2024 as wars in Lebanon, Gaza continue
Despite a growing Arab public backlash against economic ties with Israel, and politically strained ties between the UAE and Israel since the Gaza war, bilateral trade has continued across the technology, tourism and agriculture sectors.
You want to talk geopolitical battle strategy yet you can’t even comprehend how your enemy thinks.
If Hamas or Hesbollah had managed to suck Israel into a drawn out costly fight you might have seen the US pull back support or force Israel into a ceasefire, but after the last month as Israel has secured victory after victory and more importantly propaganda victories that make US policy look good and has Republicans across the media sphere talking about how Israel fights wars the way they should be fought as to why they always win- somehow you think that US politicians are going to pull back support for Israel when they are killing everyone in the region the US state department has been at war with for the last 40 years?
The utter unmitigated delusion you tankies have. It would almost be admirable if it wasn’t actual people dying behind your stupidity and lack of foresight. Your literal battle strategy is if Palestinians die enough the world will take pity and force a nuclear armed state to do something that would be antithetical to the meaning of its existence.
My lord. Time and time again Israeli Jews have shown themselves to be as merciless and fanatical as you portend yourselves to be yet you still believe with another disastrous operation they’ll all hop on a plane back to Brooklyn and declare the Tankie Caliphate.
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