The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Morality clout chasing is disgusting. If you’re horrified about what’s going on then you should be aware that Trump winning because of this will change nothing

And so what should happen from now until the election? Should Biden pivot? Continue what he's doing? Should we hold all criticism until after November? Hold off on protests?

What would you like to see happen in the next 6 months?

 

[88m3]

Idiot Hamas keeps provoking. I guess Israel is supposed to play baby hands and do nothing, but if they didn't have Iron Dome a lot of Israeli citizens would be dust.....just like Palestinians. They both are guilty of indiscriminately targeting noncombatants, but Israel hits far more.

Yup. Israel isn't going to stop until Hamas is stopped.

It's called not being a defeated people...

Do you think continuing to launch attacks against Israel makes that a more or less likely outcome?

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Do you think continuing to launch attacks against Israel makes that a more or less likely outcome?

Good question. Let's check with the West Bank and see...

Welp. Turns out it's still apartheid, land theft, atrocities, and oppression.

 

[Json]

Do you think continuing to launch attacks against Israel makes that a more or less likely outcome?

The IRA and Britain didn’t stop fighting as they negotiated. Peace still came.

The IRA didn’t disarm until years after the agreement was signed.

It usually isn't like a tv show where people automatically put down guns when the paper is signed.

 

[88m3]

Good question. Let's check with the West Bank and see...

Welp. Turns out it's still apartheid, land theft, atrocities, and oppression.

there are still attacks originating from the West Bank just not rocket attacks

Gal Hirsch (2016). Defensive Shield: An Israeli Special Forces Commander on the Front Line of Counterterrorism: the Inspirational Story of Brigadier General Gal Hirsch. Gefen Publishing House. p. 225. ISBN 978-965-229-865-2. Just to make things clear, there is a solution to rocket fire! We are absolutely capable of overcoming this threat and reducing the number of launches to zero, but it involves a government decision enabling us to achieve complete control of the area. When we do not conquer and hold the Gaza Strip, the firing continues on the communities in the south for many years. When we do not have control in areas of Lebanon, large areas of Israel are under rocket threat, depending on the range. In J&S, rockets are not launched since we have complete operational and intelligence control of the area. There were attempts to develop launching capabilities of locally made Qassam rockets, but we thwarted them after taking vigorous action. I was chief of operations of CENTCOM at the time, and it was joint operations carried out by the ISA and the IDF that prevented this capability from ever evolving. As long as we continued to control the West Bank and let the ISA perform their intel-gathering activities, we were able to eradicate all launching capabilities.

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pressure]

The IRA and Britain didn’t stop fighting as they negotiated. Peace still came.

The IRA didn’t disarm until years after the agreement was signed.

It usually isn't like a tv show where people automatically put down guns when the paper is signed.

there’s a fundamental flaw with this logic.

One it’s ahistorical.

Two they’re still a part of the UK.

Three Gazans have no comeback arc nor the ability to force a stalemate.

 

[88m3]

The IRA and Britain didn’t stop fighting as they negotiated. Peace still came.

The IRA didn’t disarm until years after the agreement was signed.

It usually isn't like a tv show where people automatically put down guns when the paper is signed.

I don't think this conflict shares that many similarities

Hamas and it's allies don't want peace, they want the erasure of the Jewish state and its people


yeah, I don't see that happening here, odd to even bring it up...

 

[Outlaw]

And so what should happen from now until the election? Should Biden pivot? Continue what he's doing? Should we hold all criticism until after November? Hold off on protests?

What would you like to see happen in the next 6 months?

I’m not sure what can be done. Israel is going to do what it’s going to do regardless of what we do. What do you think Biden should do realistically?

 

[Dillah810]

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

I’m not sure what can be done. Israel is going to do what it’s going to do regardless of what we do. What do you think Biden should do realistically?

Reverse the bullshyt report where they claimed there wasn't enough evidence to confirm whether Israel violated international law, use the laws that are already on the books to halt weapons shipments, publicly call on Israel to stop withholding aid, stop covering for Israel in the UN, stop trying to delegitimize the ICC and ICJ, stop demonizing protesters, threaten to sanction Israel unless they back off, call for an independent investigation into Israel's conduct over the last 7 months, admit to the public that he waited too long to act and apologize for the months of gross negligence, pledge to help with the rebuilding process, and recognize Palestine as a state.

You really couldn't think of any one of these scenarios? Nothing else can be done, realistically? Just can't do anything but give bombs to Israel so they can drop them on makeshift tents full of babies and other refugees, realistically. Genocide is just the only option for you, huh?
Are you going to continue dodging taking any kind of solid stance, while attacking any critic of the genocide?

@mastermind hit the nail on the head with the nuance trolling call out.

"It's so complicated, what can be done? Better we just keep the genocide going while you research the nuance."

 

[Outlaw]

Reverse the bullshyt report where they claimed there wasn't enough evidence to confirm whether Israel violated international law, use the laws that are already on the books to halt weapons shipments, publicly call on Israel to stop withholding aid, stop covering for Israel in the UN, stop trying to delegitimize the ICC and ICJ, stop demonizing protesters, threaten to sanction Israel unless they back off, call for an independent investigation into Israel's conduct over the last 7 months, admit to the public that he waited too long to act and apologize for the months of gross negligence, pledge to help with the rebuilding process, and recognize Palestine as a state.

You really couldn't think of any one of these scenarios? Nothing else can be done, realistically? Just can't do anything but give bombs to Israel so they can drop them on makeshift tents full of babies and other refugees, realistically. Genocide is just the only option for you, huh?
You're going to continue dodging taking any kind of solid stance, while attacking any critic of the genocide?

@mastermind hit the nail on the head with the nuance trolling call out.

"It's so complicated, what can be done? Better we just keep the genocide going while you research the nuance."

Not trolling. If Biden turned on Israel then the media and probably members of his own party who are tied to AIPAC will completely turn on him which would be a death sentence to his campaign. Rather you like it or not Israel holds the power here not Biden. This is where I think the protestors have it wrong. More focus should be on Israel and not blaming Biden. Politically Biden is a victim of circumstance and is in a lose lose situation.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Not trolling. If Biden turned on Israel then the media and probably members of his own party who are tied to AIPAC will completely turn on him which would be a death sentence to his campaign. Rather you like it or not Israel holds the power here not Biden. This is where I think the protestors have it wrong. More focus should be on Israel and not blaming Biden. Politically Biden is a victim of circumstance and is in a lose lose situation.

Boss, the genocide could cost him the election as well. Genocide is not the winning formula you think it is. All the browbeating and condescension from liberals is not going to fix the damage he is doing to his own campaign by supporting this. You can't take back the tens of thousands of dead children. That is a stain that will remain on this country forever. Our great-great grandchildren won't remember the infrastructure bill, but they'll know Genocide Joe. If you think it's a lose lose, why would genocide be the more realistic option to you over stopping the genocide?

Israel holds the power here, not Biden.

Wow.

Is this the tail wagging the dog you think? Or is the US the tail in your eyes?

 

[Outlaw]

Boss, the genocide could cost him the election as well. Genocide is not the winning formula you think it is. All the browbeating and condescension from liberals is not going to fix the damage he is doing to his own campaign by supporting this. You can't take back the tens of thousands of dead children. That is a stain that will remain on this country forever. Our great-great grandchildren won't remember the infrastructure bill, but they'll know Genocide Joe. If you think it's a lose lose, why would genocide be the more realistic option to you over stopping the genocide?

Israel holds the power here, not Biden.

Wow.

Is this the tail wagging the dog you think? Or is the US the tail in your eyes?

I definitely don’t think Biden’s support for Israel is a winning formula however he’s going to lose support from his base regardless of what he choses. Politically I think his calculation is that he will lose less support from his broader coalition by supporting Israel than taking the political blow back and framing that he supports Hamas if he takes a harder stance against israel.

In this instance I think Israel holds the leverage, sanctioning israel and holding weapon shipments are options but the political blowback would be insane. The portion of Biden’s voting base that would be appeased by those actions would be eclipsed by the support he would lose. If Biden did those things, lost the election and then Trump reversed course what good would that do?

Again Biden is in an impossible situation here.

Israel knows that Biden is going to play ball or they’re going to act in a manner that will get Trump elected and he will play ball. So yes, Israel holds the power.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

I definitely don’t think Biden’s support for Israel is a winning formula however he’s going to lose support from his base regardless of what he choses. Politically I think his calculation is that he will lose less support from his broader coalition by supporting Israel than taking the political blow back and framing that he supports Hamas if he takes a harder stance against israel.

In this instance I think Israel holds the leverage, sanctioning israel and holding weapon shipments are options but the political blowback would be insane. The portion of Biden’s voting base that would be appeased by those actions would be eclipsed by the support he would lose. If Biden did those things, lost the election and then Trump reversed course what good would that do?

Again Biden is in an impossible situation here.

Israel knows that Biden is going to play ball or they’re going to act in a manner that will get Trump elected and he will play ball. So yes, Israel holds the power.

Again, if you believe he is going to lose support regardless, why is genocide still the better option to you over stopping genocide? Do you acknowledge how much damage has already been done to the US' standing as the supposed leader of the free world? Do you believe this genocide is worth the complete loss of legitimacy at the global stage?

Israel is already acting in a matter that will get Trump elected, and some Israeli leaders have openly wished for a Trump return to presidency.
How do you think we get headlines like this?

Netanyahu vows to defy Biden’s ‘red line’ on Rafah

Israel PM insists his priority is to prevent another terror attack like the October 7 Hamas raid.

www.politico.eu

What part of Israel's conduct makes you think they care about Biden's electability?

This plausible deniability act is bullshyt. This is textbook nuance trolling.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

This is going to be rough week for all sides. Biden is going to be forced to show some authority or risk being seen as even weaker than he already is. Netanyahoo is beyond unhinged.

You can’t justify 35 deaths including dismembered babies and women for 2 “senior officials” in Hamas (which we can basically guarantee weren’t there, or were some low level person they heard was a part of Hamas.)

How is it precision munitions if you literally blow up 33 innocent babies, women and men to purportedly get two people?