The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[FAH1223]

@2Quik4UHoes Marwan doing daily hits

 

[88m3]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-stages-airstrikes-across-gaza-makes-arrests-hospital-2024-02-17/

Egypt preparing safe areas for Gaza refugees, foreign minister says

Move comes as ceasefire talks between Israel and Hamas make little progress, according to key Qatar negotiator

www.theguardian.com

 

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[2Quik4UHoes]

I love that that Lula statement happened at the African Union Summit. More African nations need to get behind South Africa and the wider movement in the global south to push back against the destructive nature of pathological white neuroticism and its violent byproducts in other parts of the world.

 

[FAH1223]

Sane Israelis including a Palestinian-Israeli (Dr. Abu Rass) talking the internal politics

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Forensic Architecture

forensic-architecture.org

We musn't forget, even in the midst of this madness, the political reality at the root of all this. And it is not Zionism (though it can and should be questioned), but the destructive and tantalizing lie according to which the existence of a Palestinian state is totally contingent on Israel's goodwill and acquiescence.

The political, cultural, psychological status of every Palestinian ever born, according to this lie, is completely subjected to Israeli political, economic and religious calculous and consideration, and this is ok. This is normal, supposedly. This is how it is being presented for generations. When Israelis find it in their heart and have the leisure to consider it, and when the right Israeli leadership happens to emerge - that, insha Allah, we may begin a process of discussing the possibility of laying the groundwork for a potential framework in which negotiations may be agreed to - - -

How is this normal, or can ever be justified or explained? Isn't it obvious that under these conditions Palestinian consciousness will be forced to organize around resistance? Resistance to actual and current oppression, and not a theoretical Jewish state which had already been established?

What group of people is allowed such power over another? Was Egypt or Syria ever granted a veto power over the establishment of a Jewish state?

You don't have as much power over your own children as Israel does over every Palestinian: if you treat your own children with extreme violence, they will be taken from you by society, and rightfully so.

But somehow Israel has been appointed the eternal, unconditional lord and master of Palestinians for some reason. This fact alone is enough to make any society and any individual lose their mind. Absolute power over other human beings will drive anyone crazy. It is a scientific fact. But Israel has embraced this poison pill, and the whole world seems to be ok with it, and this is mainly how we got here.

 

[Pressure]

What group of people is allowed such power over another? Was Egypt or Syria ever granted a veto power over the establishment of a Jewish state?

1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian

history.state.gov 3.0 shell

history.state.gov

We can have issues, we can want Palestinians to have their own state.

Similarly, we could accept them being equal citizens in current Israel.

But we have to stop making these ahistorical claims that people are just owed land and that most countries weren’t established as the result of some military conquest or defense.

There was an opportunity to create a Palestine back during the creation of Israel. Or long before if we want to be honest.

But Arab leaders rejected that idea under the belief that they could do so militarily. And they’ve taken that path multiple times at the expense of Palestinians.



Now we have a bunch of authoritarian, right wing Jewish people running the government and we see the aftermath of years of militarism and a complete abandonment of the realities of the world and what a peaceful solution means — neither side is getting all that they want.

 

[mastermind]

 

[Sly Cookin]

 

[jj23]

Jesus Christ man. Sorry breh. Who in their right mind can watch this shyt then try to justify it by blaming hamas?

Just pure wickedness.

 

[Pressure]

You're assuming there's going to be a West Bank when this war is over

Hamas is hurting them rather than helping them. Wether they are a ploy of the Israeli government to build up Israeli military or not is irrelevant at this point. What's relevant is that since Hamas has been in power, Palestinians have lost big in every facet of society.

I feel you. But the equal population size means nothing when you're so technologically inferior. The fire power and training of one IDF solider is equal to that of potentially 4-5 HAMAS and 10+ Palestine civilians. Numbers are irrelevant here.

I've usually been pro-Palestine, but you CANNOT bomb innocent people in concert halls and festivals and expect the world to be on your side. Flat out. These weren't hardened military or even state targets.

Israel now has a full blown casus belli to wipe Gaza off the map and take it over completely. HAMAS has basically signed the Palestinian state's death warrant.

I don’t think this is going to go the way you think it’s going to go

this is the dumbest thing i've seen i think

hamas basically kicking off a globally accepted genocide of palestine. just fukking unreal

Hamas/ Palestinians are gonna have go all-in. This is situation Israel had been itching for: total war that'll give them a blank check to finish their genocide.

Not understanding the global narrative around your own conflict is a major L. The world ain't concerned with "justice" or whatever. Might makes right.
And I think terrorism is shytty from all fronts...fight who you need to fight. There's no reason for Israel to bomb apartment parks, and the retaliation is just as vile. Killing innocents has no moral equivalency to me.




I'm not making a "live with your oppressors" argument. For HAMAS it was either take a treaty of some sort or death. They've chosen death and most of the people who will perish had no say in the matter. Palastine didn't take the L and now it's game 7.




World GOVERNMENTS are on Israel's side. The average human being was Free Palestine. Here's the issue, you can't lose the PR war in 2023. Its almost MORE important than the actual bombs and guns. If modern conservatism had it's way, Russia wouldn't be the bad guy in Ukraine. But because Putin's been losing a PR war for the better part of a decade, he was met with staunch oppositon.

When it comes to HAMAS they didn't appeal to the masses before these attacks. And not to mention, the average person on Earth ain't even plugged into this conflict like that. So you have to go out of your way to position your actions as justified. They did not do that. Billions of people woke up this morning and saw HAMAS slaughtered 200+ people in one day in a conflict most people have NO context for.


Justice and "what's right" has nothing to do with my assessment of the situation. Outside of a two-state solution, I have no real feelings about either nation. But to not admit that HAMAS did was vile is just as bad as handwaving away the atrocities commited by Israel. Two things can simultaneously be true.

Probably some of the more accurate and sobering responses of what was to come on day one.

Not really quoted to stir up anything. I was just intrigued to look back where this discourse started and if what we see today was discussed early on.

 

[Yehuda]