The Official Israel-Gaza Thread

[ADevilYouKhow]

Israel Presses Assault on Hamas’s Last Major Gaza Bastion — The Wall Street Journal

Residents flee Khan Younis following heavy bombardment of the city

apple.news

Hamas has lost the initiative

What was all of this death for?

 

[OfTheCross]

That’s actually a lie.

They accepted for all intents and purposes the Taba plan.

The Middle East: how the peace was lost

Open access // by Alain Gresh (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, September 2001)

mondediplo.com

It's definitely not a lie, the article you shared even references it. It also concludes it's assessment of the situation as a failed negotiation. Not as Israel rejecting a deal.

The Arabs rejected having their own State multiple times. All this talk about the UN borders, but when they were offered those borders they rejected them and chose war

 

[FAH1223]

It's definitely not a lie, the article you shared even references it. It also concludes it's assessment of the situation as a failed negotiation. Not as Israel rejecting a deal.

The Arabs rejected having their own State multiple times. All this talk about the UN borders, but when they were offered those borders they rejected them and chose war

I'm not absolving the Arabs. But it is disengous to say that the Palestinians have always rejected deals. That's just not true and it doesn't take into fact the political dynamics in play with the Palestinians internally.

The Barak team in 2001 has said numerous times that if they had won the election, an agreement would have occured weeks after Taba. Daniel Levy was one of the negotiators and has said this.

But Sharon won and he ignored that deal. He and subsequent governments ignored the Arab League Peace Plan led by the Saudis in 2002. That offer has been on the table since then.

If you look at the 1947 maps you will understand why the Arabs rejected the 1948 UN proposal. The UN suggested just handing over land to the Jews that was Arab settled just so they could have viable borders. It was always a hot mess.

Jordan actively supported the Peel Commission, and the Hashemite leaders regularly engaged with Zionist leaders before the 1948 war, putting forth various proposals. Remarkably, they didn't object to the idea of a Jewish state as long as they could subsequently annex the Arab territories. Initially, they accepted the 1948 borders, only later reversing this decision under pressure from the other Arab states. Jordan wanted to annex as much of Palestine as possible which is how they ended up with the West Bank for 19 years.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

Released Israeli hostages speak out against Netanyahu:

"הפגיזו לידנו, בעלי הרביץ לעצמו": עדויות החטופות בפגישה עם הקבינט

ההקלטות מהפגישה הקשה עם נתניהו וקבינט המלחמה חושפות את העדויות הקשות וזעם המשפחות. חטופה ששוחררה: "בעלי נתן לעצמו אגרופים כל יום עד שדימם. הוא הופרד מאיתנו, נלקח למנהרות - ואתם מדברים על לשטוף אותן במי ים?". חטופה אחרת: "כל יום בשבי היה קשה מאוד, פחדנו שישראל תהרוג אותנו". נתניהו לבני משפחות...

www.ynet.co.il

"I was there and I know how hard it is in captivity," said in one of the meetings the abductee Menir Oz, who was released in a deal. "Every day in captivity was very difficult. I was at home when there was shelling all around. We were sitting in the tunnels and we were terribly afraid that not Hamas but Israel would kill us, and then they would say - Hamas killed you. So I very much ask as soon as possible to start exchanging the prisoners and everyone should return home. There is no priority Everyone is important."
Another abductee who returned with her children, but her husband remained captive to Hamas, said: "The feeling we had there was that no one was doing anything for us. The fact is that I was in a hiding place that was shelled and we had to be smuggled out and wounded. Not including the helicopter that shot at us on the way to Gaza. You claim that there is intelligence, But the fact is that we are being shelled. My husband was separated from us three days before we returned to Israel and taken to the tunnels. And you are talking about washing the tunnels with sea water? You are shelling the route of tunnels in the exact area where they are. The girls ask me where is father? And I have to tell them that the bad guys don't want to yet release him."

Bar Goldstein told what his family members who returned from hell in Gaza described to him: "Fortunately, I had the privilege of receiving my sister-in-law Chen and her children. They were under constant threat from the IDF shelling. You sat in front of us and assured us that it does not threaten their lives. They also roam the street and not only in the tunnels. They are mounted on donkeys and carts. You will not be able to recognize them on the street and you are endangering their lives. It is our duty to return them now."

Some audio:


Oof. I'd be surprised to see this reported on in our news.

 

[mastermind]

Released Israeli hostages speak out against Netanyahu:

"הפגיזו לידנו, בעלי הרביץ לעצמו": עדויות החטופות בפגישה עם הקבינט

ההקלטות מהפגישה הקשה עם נתניהו וקבינט המלחמה חושפות את העדויות הקשות וזעם המשפחות. חטופה ששוחררה: "בעלי נתן לעצמו אגרופים כל יום עד שדימם. הוא הופרד מאיתנו, נלקח למנהרות - ואתם מדברים על לשטוף אותן במי ים?". חטופה אחרת: "כל יום בשבי היה קשה מאוד, פחדנו שישראל תהרוג אותנו". נתניהו לבני משפחות...

www.ynet.co.il

Some audio:


Oof. I'd be surprised to see this reported on in our news.

Another group of hostages saying this very thing.

 

[OfTheCross]

I'm not absolving the Arabs. But it is disengous to say that the Palestinians have always rejected deals. That's just not true and it doesn't take into fact the political dynamics in play with the Palestinians internally.

The Barak team in 2001 has said numerous times that if they had won the election, an agreement would have occured weeks after Taba. Daniel Levy was one of the negotiators and has said this.

But Sharon won and he ignored that deal. He and subsequent governments ignored the Arab League Peace Plan led by the Saudis in 2002. That offer has been on the table since then.

If you look at the 1947 maps you will understand why the Arabs rejected the 1948 UN proposal. The UN suggested just handing over land to the Jews that was Arab settled just so they could have viable borders. It was always a hot mess.

Jordan actively supported the Peel Commission, and the Hashemite leaders regularly engaged with Zionist leaders before the 1948 war, putting forth various proposals. Remarkably, they didn't object to the idea of a Jewish state as long as they could subsequently annex the Arab territories. Initially, they accepted the 1948 borders, only later reversing this decision under pressure from the other Arab states. Jordan wanted to annex as much of Palestine as possible which is how they ended up with the West Bank for 19 years.

This is all fine. No one's hands are completely clean. But all you described in your post was not a rejection of a deal, but a change in leadership and the results of an election.

If Obama got voted out before Obamacare was passed, I wouldn't say the proposal was rejected by America. The other political party didn't engage.

What can't be denied, which you tried and that's what began our discussion, is that the leadership of the Arab Palestinians actively rejected deals when presented.

Then they subsequently warred with Israel to take over the entire area. After losing multiple times, now they want the original deal to be back on the table

I don't think that's how life works.

They should've accepted their State, like Pakistan did. Many, many, many Muslims left India and moved once the new borders were drawn. Same for the creation of every other post-war State. Moving and drawing borders is part of the process.

Instead, it appears they're trying to go the Native American route and fight to the bitter end. The "open air prison" in Gaza is no worse than an Indian reservation

 

[FAH1223]

This is all fine. No one's hands are completely clean. But all you described in your post was not a rejection of a deal, but a change in leadership and the results of an election.

If Obama got voted out before Obamacare was passed, I wouldn't say the proposal was rejected by America. The other political party didn't engage.

What can't be denied, which you tried and that's what began our discussion, is that the leadership of the Arab Palestinians actively rejected deals when presented.

Then they subsequently warred with Israel to take over the entire area. After losing multiple times, now they want the original deal to be back on the table

I don't think that's how life works.

They should've accepted their State, like Pakistan did. Many, many, many Muslims left India and moved once the new borders were drawn. Same for the creation of every other post-war State. Moving and drawing borders is part of the process.

Instead, it appears they're trying to go the Native American route and fight to the bitter end. The "open air prison" in Gaza is no worse than an Indian reservation

If you’re a Palestinian, what do you do? In 2023?

The PA has already surrendered. Look at the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

It seems your solution is for 2 million people to be deported.

And the other 3 million in the West Bank to also be deported via a forced exit into Jordan. Thats this purpose of the Ben Gvir arming settlers policy.

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

Israel Presses Assault on Hamas’s Last Major Gaza Bastion — The Wall Street Journal

Residents flee Khan Younis following heavy bombardment of the city

apple.news

Hamas has lost the initiative

What was all of this death for?

For stuff like this



The world is waking up this how evil Israel is.

 

[Json]

Released Israeli hostages speak out against Netanyahu:

"הפגיזו לידנו, בעלי הרביץ לעצמו": עדויות החטופות בפגישה עם הקבינט

ההקלטות מהפגישה הקשה עם נתניהו וקבינט המלחמה חושפות את העדויות הקשות וזעם המשפחות. חטופה ששוחררה: "בעלי נתן לעצמו אגרופים כל יום עד שדימם. הוא הופרד מאיתנו, נלקח למנהרות - ואתם מדברים על לשטוף אותן במי ים?". חטופה אחרת: "כל יום בשבי היה קשה מאוד, פחדנו שישראל תהרוג אותנו". נתניהו לבני משפחות...

www.ynet.co.il

Some audio:


Oof. I'd be surprised to see this reported on in our news.

It’s their fault for getting captured

 

[Low End Derrick]

 

[Pressure]

If you’re a Palestinian, what do you do? In 2023?

The PA has already surrendered. Look at the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

It seems your solution is for 2 million people to be deported.

And the other 3 million in the West Bank to also be deported via a forced exit into Jordan. Thats this purpose of the Ben Gvir arming settlers policy.

In 2023 Palestinians don't want a 2 state solution and neither do Israelis.

 

[OfTheCross]

If you’re a Palestinian, what do you do? In 2023?

The PA has already surrendered. Look at the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem.

It seems your solution is for 2 million people to be deported.

And the other 3 million in the West Bank to also be deported via a forced exit into Jordan. Thats this purpose of the Ben Gvir arming settlers policy.

I chill out and live my life...I certainly don't expedite my demise by attacking Israel.

Let's not pretend that there was a genocide or mass murder of Palestinians before Oct 7.

 

[Json]

I chill out and live my life...I certainly don't expedite my demise by attacking Israel.

Let's not pretend that there was a genocide or mass murder of Palestinians before Oct 7.

You really going to say this with a straight face on a black forum?

The mass incarceration of black men on false and trumped up charges isn’t something that should bother us since we aren’t being mass murdered like we used to be?

How did Israel have so many prisoners to free in the first place if Hamas is such a large force still?

 

[Loose]

I chill out and live my life...I certainly don't expedite my demise by attacking Israel.

Let's not pretend that there was a genocide or mass murder of Palestinians before Oct 7.

Something about former Bernie bros and being pro apartheid states, fake ass progressives.

 

[Techniec]

I chill out and live my life...I certainly don't expedite my demise by attacking Israel.

Let's not pretend that there was a genocide or mass murder of Palestinians before Oct 7.

What an absolute imbecile

What the fukk do you mean chill out? .

These fukking trolls are getting out of hand