Too early to tell.
I don't follow it either but it has always appeared and seems to be believed also by most who do follow the sport that whoever has the fastest car tends to dominate the sport. So I'm not sure there can even be a GOAT.
The rule of thumb is that the best drivers will find themselves in the fastest cars.
In comparing drivers, the only thing you can do is evaluate how they did against other great drivers of their era.
I don't think Hamilton was ever considered the consensus GOAT. Way too many people that will claim guys like Ascari, Fangio, Jim Clark, Schumacher, or Senna were just as good at their peaks.
For me, Hamilton is the GOAT because no matter what era he's driven in, whether V8/grooved tires, V8/slicks, narrow body V6, widebody V6, and now ground effect, the same qualities come through. All-time great pace in qualifying, deep understanding of tire management, clean wheel to wheel fighter, and ability to be fast in any condition during the race.
After years of being an extreme hot head and prone to bad mistakes, Verstappen also has most of those qualities now(he's alwys going to be an ass when going wheel to wheel, which is like Schumacher but unlike Lewis and Alonso) and if he keeps winning will definitely be in the conversation in a few years.
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Wow
BBC commentator sacked over allegations of inappropriate touching
A BBC commentator among the most recognisable āvoices of F1ā has been sacked after alleged inappropriate touching. Jack Nicholls was dismissed by IMG ā who produce BBC Radio 5 Livā¦
www.thesun.co.uk
aXiom
Maximized Potential
Nah.. George has speed. Thatās the one thing you canāt train or substitute for, consistency is a close 2nd, but a speed is the most important trait of a racing driver. You can work around and nurture other aspects.. racecraft, defensive driving, consistency to an extent, but driving at or close to the limit for an extended period of time and making it seem like the norm.. you canāt make up for that.. you either have it or you donāt. Jenson never had that, and he got lucky in 2009. George has been doing well so far. Itās just the Lewis haters that made last year insufferable with their āGeorge is better than Lewisā agenda.. so naturally Lewis is gonna wash him.. theyāre all quiet now.
Max is the real dealā¦ youād have to be somewhat biased to to think he isnāt in that S-Tier category of drivers that Lewis, Michael, Senna and Alonso fall into. The only thing hanging over his head now is that he has had weak teammates, and we know he cracks under pressure, compared to a driver like Lewis(see the last 6 races of 2021 and 2016), both seasons he lost, but not because he didnāt deliver when it was all on the line every weekend. It takes a special kind of driver to do that.
As far as being the GOAT, I donāt think thereās such a thing, as different cars, eras, ages etc all play a part, but I will say the grid is a lot more stacked with talent than it was during the 80s and 90s where there were a lot of scrubs on the grid. The fact that Lewis and Alonso are still considered top tier after competing at that level for damn near 2 decades places them in an elite category. You alway had your fast drivers, like Kimi and Massa, who were lighting quick and were seen as competitors to the throne but never really panned out as they peaked then fell off hard.. Kimi spent his last years getting washed by Vettel, which was always one of the weaker champions, who spent his last years fighting with Stroll whoās now getting decimated by a 40+ year old Alonso. Max was basically born to race.. I donāt think he falls off, I just need to see him with actually competition in the 2nd redbull seat.
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KillerB88
Superstar
@aXiom I didn't say he wasn't quick. Calling him another Jenson isn't an insult. It means what it means. In a strong car with enough of an advantage, he can secure a title. He just doesn't have that final gear to have to really fight for a title. Between his junior career and now four full seasons in F1-- with one of those years beside the GOAT and being able to analyze his data-- he should be able to beat 38 year old Lewis if he ever could. Lewis outqualified him last season and went on a string of 7 races where he beat GR after the 'experiments' stopped. They're 6-2 this year in races and tied in qualifying. George is exactly the driver I expected him to be-- better than most; just not better than Lewis.
KillerB88
Superstar
I've seen others share this sentiment-- and I'm wondering if you all need to rewatch 2021. Nothing has changed except the pressure. Its only been a season and a bit since then. When has he been under pressure since for anyone to make those kids of assertions?
aXiom
Maximized Potential
Yeah.. I think it was 7-1 going to Montreal last year in favor of George and they ended the season 12-10 in favor of George. Lewis also fukked up at Spa which caused him to take an engine penalty and start from the back of the grid in Monza and George got lucky again with the safety car in Zandvoort and Lewis had a mechanical dnf in Abu. So if we go with the āexperimental setupsā angle Lewis had outscored him 15-6 since Montreal last year when he stopped running the experimental setups.
There was never a time last year where he bothered Lewis on pace and I donāt think anyone expected him to be better than Lewis, but at the very least heās been better than Bottas, and they make the strongest drive pairing on the grid. Heās really good at securing points and moving the car up the grid on race day. Iād place him just below Charles, and above Sainz in skill, but heās still better than Jenson. Jenson was one of those drivers, like Vettel that irked me during thier championship runs. You could see it was just the carā¦ I mean itās always the car, but itās so much easier when you have a trash teammate superior car with no other outside competition. Imagine if Lewis had Sergio as a teammate from 2014 to now.. heād have 150+ wins. Max is gonna hit 50 wins this year and probably touch 65 next year if Mercedes donāt get their shyt together.
Nothing has changed on my opinions on Verstappen. You all were in here trying to fight me when I declared him a generational talent. I've always held him in high esteem and I think he's matured greatly since 2017-2018 when it was clear he was very talented but a work in progress. Outside of Schumacher, I don't think any other driver mentally would've survived going toe to toe with Lewis like he did(I guess you can count 2016 Rosberg but the dynamics were different and there's 1% chance he'd be able to repeat it).
KillerB88
Superstar
But that's my point. He didn't. Rewatch the season friend. He was so intimidated by Lewis on track he consistently engaged in unsportsmanlike conduct regualrly throughout the season with it all coming to a head in Saudi. He should have been DQ'd for that race alone which would have essentially handed Lewis the title. The man launched his car over a curb and onto Lewis' head! Without the halo, LH would at worst be dead and at best likely sharing a hospital bed next to The Michael. All because he was mad his team made a mistake and he lost track position to Lewis. The fact people either have fuzzy memories or choose to outright gloss over some of the most disgusting 'racing tactics' we've seen in this modern era is astonishing.Yes, he did. Stop being an unreasonable stan.
You don't have to like how he races. I sure don't. But to claim he didn't go straight up with Lewis is false.
Man had PTSD and ran into Lewis in Brehzil last year for literally no reason
.
KillerB88
Superstar
I was wondering if there was an ad hominem attack waiting in your back pocket. Have no actual rebuttal to anything I said, but made it a point to label me a 'fan boy'. Enjoy your evening.Yes, he did. Stop being an unreasonable stan.
You don't have to like how he races. I sure don't. But to claim he didn't go straight up with Lewis is false.
Just a point of order.
He didn't survive. He benefited from cheating. He used that to positively reinforce his image as a world champion.
Did you hear his radio when Lewis had put nearly 20 secs into him on that final race before the cheating? He was crushed.
