Essential The Official Coli Gun Owners Thread

[Kamikaze Revy]

For home defense or self defense in general I would prefer shotguns and rifles to pistols and pistol carbines because their greater effectiveness in stopping a threat. If you need concealability, yeah handguns are the only option, but if you are at home or you want a weapon for your living quarters, I don't think its optimum.

Home and self defense should be treated separately though. You aren't going to be walking around Walmart with a shotgun or rifle. Your safest most responsible choice should be a handgun with hollow point rounds for self defense. In your home you have a situation where you are able to access a shotgun therefore the shotgun is the better choice. The first thing to keep in mind isn't stopping power. It's safety. You need to make sure you are using a weapon that be safely discharged without harming anyone else or their property. In your house at 4am someone breaks in. It's pitch black. You're adrenaline is through the roof and you can barely see. With a handgun you will likely miss which is extremely dangerous as the rounds can go right through walls with ease. A shot gun rounds spread will have pellets that will enter a target but not go through it. Of course there are shotgun rounds that will blow right through a person, but choosing the correct round is just as important as well. A rifle can be used for home defense but it isn't ideal and is better suited for hunting or sport. I'm strictly speaking from a gun safety stand point.

 

[David_TheMan]

Home and self defense should be treated separately though. You aren't going to be walking around Walmart with a shotgun or rifle. Your safest most responsible choice should be a handgun with hollow point rounds for self defense. In your home you have a situation where you are able to access a shotgun therefore the shotgun is the better choice. The first thing to keep in mind isn't stopping power. It's safety. You need to make sure you are using a weapon that be safely discharged without harming anyone else or their property. In your house at 4am someone breaks in. It's pitch black. You're adrenaline is through the roof and you can barely see. With a handgun you will likely miss which is extremely dangerous as the rounds can go right through walls with ease. A shot gun rounds spread will have pellets that will enter a target but not go through it. Of course there are shotgun rounds that will blow right through a person, but choosing the correct round is just as important as well. A rifle can be used for home defense but it isn't ideal and is better suited for hunting or sport. I'm strictly speaking from a gun safety stand point.

Self defense applies to home and outside of it, which is why I said when talking about defending home rifles and shotguns, when you need concealability (outside of home or travel) no question pistol.

Yes concern over environment is a factor, but it isn't going to override the ability of said weapon to reliabiliy put down the threat.
Shotgun pellets from 4buck up destroy dry wall, 9mm and 45acp outpenetrate 5.56 rounds in dry wall tests, so like I said i disagree with your stance regarding weapons for home defense.

 

[Stir Fry]

Yeah, unless it's green tip, 5.56 is actually a fairly low (wall) penetrating round since it starts to "tumble" upon impact.

 

[ViShawn]

I'm ideally speaking self defense / home defense here.

I have experience in mixed martial arts and have actually competed on an amateur level but I think you need multiple lines of defense.

 

[Stir Fry]

Yeah actually that shop and another in Atlanta I went to while visiting my parents have been more than helpful. I was just checking this local range near my parents because my dad mentioned it to me. Dude saw I was interested, didn't ask for my ID, super helpful and friendly. I don't mind going to shops that are like this.

Eh.... $1600 - 2200 for a LWRC. I could buy it but I'm not sure yet. I think handgun makes the most feasible first purchase, but man shooting a rifle is fun.

I'm really enjoying improving my marksmanship.

AR's hold very closely to the rule of diminishing returns. You can save a lot of coin by going with a different manufacturer and instead, put the money saved towards a nicer optic, this will benefit your shot much more than a nicer rifle would. With a nice scope/red dot, the glass will be much clearer and brighter. I would recommend checking out BCM's lineup personally. They're the best value for dollar AR imo.

 

[David_TheMan]

I'm ideally speaking self defense / home defense here.

I have experience in mixed martial arts and have actually competed on an amateur level but I think you need multiple lines of defense.

There isn't any real wrong answer, its all preference for the most part, everyone has things or ideals they favor and their isn't one really above the other outside of being comfortable using the weapon platform you have.

Shotgun is my go to in event of a potential home situation

 

[David_TheMan]

AR's hold very closely to the rule of diminishing returns. You can save a lot of coin by going with a different manufacturer and instead, put the money saved towards a nicer optic, this will benefit your shot much more than a nicer rifle would. With a nice scope/red dot, the glass will be much clearer and brighter. I would recommend checking out BCM's lineup personally. They're the best value for dollar AR imo.

Or you could have a excellent rifle with an excellent scope and the best of both worlds.


Adams Arms also a nice piston AR.
I was with my dad on black friday, he got a nice deal on a Troy defense AR.

 

[ViShawn]

I appreciate everyone's input!

 

[Stir Fry]

Or you could have a excellent rifle with an excellent scope and the best of both worlds.


Adams Arms also a nice piston AR.
I was with my dad on black friday, he got a nice deal on a Troy defense AR.

I would counter that BCM makes excellent rifles and at ~$800 than an LWRC. Both will have smooth actions, good quality control, and be more accurate than 95% of their users

Take half of that $800 and apply it to the optic instead and you'll get more than a twice as good one for and still less than he'd pay for the LWRC. The rest of that money could more than pay for an Appleseed class and ammo


I think we can both agree that folks would be best served with a middy over carbine length though?


If I were to make another AR, I'd probably go with a lightweight, 14.5" with pinned compensator.

 

[David_TheMan]

I would counter that BCM makes excellent rifles and at ~$800 than an LWRC. Both will have smooth actions, good quality control, and be more accurate than 95% of their users

Take half of that $800 and apply it to the optic instead and you'll get more than a twice as good one for and still less than he'd pay for the LWRC. The rest of that money could more than pay for an Appleseed class and ammo


I think we can both agree that folks would be best served with a middy over carbine length though?


If I were to make another AR, I'd probably go with a lightweight, 14.5" with pinned compensator.

I run 308s so I don't want anything less than 16 inches in length, but I would guess with a 556 you could get away with 14.5 barrel but would it be worth it?
I hear what you are saying though with BCM and the LWRC, but its the same thing with a Benz, Rolls, or other luxery car over a hyundai or fiesta, Sometimes if you got it, you can do it with style.

But yeah I got you.

 

[Stir Fry]

I run 308s so I don't want anything less than 16 inches in length, but I would guess with a 556 you could get away with 14.5 barrel but would it be worth it?
I hear what you are saying though with BCM and the LWRC, but its the same thing with a Benz, Rolls, or other luxery car over a hyundai or fiesta, Sometimes if you got it, you can do it with style.

But yeah I got you.

I'd put Palmetto as Hyundai, BCM as BMW, and LWRC as Benz. A nicely scoped BCM would be heavily modified M3 territory with room to grow, while a LWRC with any scope would never be more than a factory S class. I feel the 5.56 is more of a short/intermediate range caliber, so taking an inch off to get a little more agility from it is a better trade off. Realistically, most of our shooting will be done within 300 yards anyways, and it can reach out much further than that with 14.5 ". Just as long as the barrel is longer than 11", the 5.56 is a great tool for self defense.

 

[David_TheMan]

I'd put Palmetto as Hyundai, BCM as BMW, and LWRC as Benz. A nicely scoped BCM would be modified M3 territory with room to grow, while a LWRC with any scope would never be greater than an AMG Benz. I feel the 5.56 is more of a short to mid range caliber, so taking an inch off to get a little more agility from it is a better trade off. Realistically, most of our shooting will be done within 300 yards anyways, and it can reach out much further than that with 14.5 ". Just as long as the barrell is longer than 11", the 5.56 is a great tool for self defense.

How is the muzzle flash and noise from the 14inch barrel compared to the16, is it very harsh?

 

[Stir Fry]

How is the muzzle flash and noise from the 14inch barrel compared to the16, is it very harsh?

I'm not sure. I've never shot a 14.5" before, but my 16" at night wasn't giving me any issues so I figure that an 1.5" off shouldn't really be much worse. God forbid I ever had to use it at night, I don't really see myself doing much more than quickly dumping off a bunch of rounds anyways, and I think the increase in flash would be somewhat negligible at that point. I'd try my best to avoid shooting at night anyways, due to it attracting unwanted attention.

 

[David_TheMan]

I'm not sure. I've never shot a 14.5" before, but my 16" at night wasn't giving me any issues so I figure that an 1.5" off shouldn't really be much worse. God forbid I ever had to use it at night, I don't really see myself doing much more than quickly dumping off a bunch of rounds anyways, and I think the increase in flash would be somewhat negligible at that point. I'd try t avoid shooting at night anyways, due to it attracting more unwanted attention.

how are you going to do your 14.5 inch setup, you going the pistol route with the stabilizers or are you getting a SBR and getting the stamp?

 

[Stir Fry]

how are you going to do your 14.5 inch setup, you going the pistol route with the stabilizers or are you getting a SBR and getting the stamp?

We can't do SBR's where I'm at. With the 14.5 I plan on pinning the brake to make it a legit 16" barrel