Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[surv2syn]

I saw this and glad you posted. I had been meaning to post about Bud's all time placement since people are saying he is top 3-5 if he beats Canelo.

Bud is my favorite boxer and has been for years. Just like my favorites of the past, Floyd, RJJ, Pernell, Curry, SRL, Pryor, Ali....

Even though he is my favorite, I cant rank him that high. I havent made a list but he would be somewhere in the 10-15 range. I put him ahead of RJJ. I would not put him ahead of Whitaker or Duran, not SRL, Floyd and Manny are above him too. Then you have SRR, Armstrong, Ali, and maybe Jack Johnson. So just by that list right there he would round out my 10. I also like Hagler though. you can slide in some other old timers like Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford. So at best Bud is 10th for me and at worst 15th. unless I forgot someone.

 

[surv2syn]

just thinking that if they wanted to chase belts, Manny could have won in 3 more divisions and I would say Roy could have won in 2 more.

 

[patscorpio]

just thinking that if they wanted to chase belts, Manny could have won in 3 more divisions and I would say Roy could have won in 2 more.

outside of CW which he tried and failed to compete..what other division for roy?

 

[surv2syn]

outside of CW which he tried and failed to compete..what other division for roy?

not saying he failed, but he started at 154. like 11 of his first 14 fights were at 154...he made that weight easily up until about 2 fights before Hopkins.

also, what do you mean he failed? he never challenged for a major title at CW. the fringe titles he won. after he fought Ruiz he could have faced one of those champs instead of Tarver. I think at that time it was the trio of Mormeck, Bell, and Braithwaite. Also Hill was champ there but Roy had already destroyed him at 175 two years prior so there was no need for a rematch.

 

[UpAndComing]

I saw this and glad you posted. I had been meaning to post about Bud's all time placement since people are saying he is top 3-5 if he beats Canelo.

Bud is my favorite boxer and has been for years. Just like my favorites of the past, Floyd, RJJ, Pernell, Curry, SRL, Pryor, Ali....

Even though he is my favorite, I cant rank him that high. I havent made a list but he would be somewhere in the 10-15 range. I put him ahead of RJJ. I would not put him ahead of Whitaker or Duran, not SRL, Floyd and Manny are above him too. Then you have SRR, Armstrong, Ali, and maybe Jack Johnson. So just by that list right there he would round out my 10. I also like Hagler though. you can slide in some other old timers like Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Sam Langford. So at best Bud is 10th for me and at worst 15th. unless I forgot someone.

I put Bud over Manny. The same Manny with his trainer Freddie Roach shamelessly ducking Bud after they were a "little too impressed" on how he dismantled Victor Postol. Freddie flat out saying it wasn't a good matchup for Manny

I'll never forgive those two for robbing Bud of the superstardom he would have gotten had he beaten/stopped Manny

 

[surv2syn]

I put Bud over Manny. The same Manny with his trainer Freddie Roach shamelessly ducking Bud after they were a "little too impressed" on how he dismantled Victor Postol. Freddie flat out saying it wasn't a good matchup for Manny

I'll never forgive those two for robbing Bud of the superstardom he would have gotten had he beaten/stopped Manny

I am glad you feel that way, he is my favorite fighter. I can’t put him over Manny. Manny has too many wins over close to prime HOFers. He beat JMM in first fight idgaf and if there would have been 3 knockdown rule would’ve been 1st round tko. JMM, Barrera, Morales strong enough trio. Then Mosley, Cotto, Hatton and Bradley are all HOFers. Thurman was a high value win. Then Broner, Ledwaba, Marga-Cheato, Larios all solid wins. He just has too many names in that resume. Won’t count Oscar

 

[UpAndComing]

I am glad you feel that way, he is my favorite fighter. I can’t put him over Manny. Manny has too many wins over close to prime HOFers. He beat JMM in first fight idgaf and if there would have been 3 knockdown rule would’ve been 1st round tko. JMM, Barrera, Morales strong enough trio. Then Mosley, Cotto, Hatton and Bradley are all HOFers. Thurman was a high value win. Then Broner, Ledwaba, Marga-Cheato, Larios all solid wins. He just has too many names in that resume. Won’t count Oscar

You have a point. It just sucks that Bud was coming up at a time when money in Boxing was dwindling, and no one was willing to put up money to have risky fights. Just look at that Manny vs Cotto fight, both were in their primes willing to risk a loss on their record. shyt like that doesn't happen often today


Manny, Thurman, Danny Garcia, Matthysse, etc all ducked Bud because the risk wasn't worth the reward

 

[Derek Lee]

There's a prospect called Emmanuel Williams who fights a lot like Spence

LMAO

 

[morris]

 

[patscorpio]

not saying he failed, but he started at 154. like 11 of his first 14 fights were at 154...he made that weight easily up until about 2 fights before Hopkins.

also, what do you mean he failed? he never challenged for a major title at CW. the fringe titles he won. after he fought Ruiz he could have faced one of those champs instead of Tarver. I think at that time it was the trio of Mormeck, Bell, and Braithwaite. Also Hill was champ there but Roy had already destroyed him at 175 two years prior so there was no need for a rematch.

he failed because he got bodied by danny green and and lebedev...he didnt get a chance to get to the title because he couldn't get past those guys..even china chinned enzo maccarinelli put him out..we can't ignore his post 175 run like it didn't exist..he fought more than enough fights at CW

 

[surv2syn]

he failed because he got bodied by danny green and and lebedev...he didnt get a chance to get to the title because he couldn't get past those guys..even china chinned enzo maccarinelli put him out..we can't ignore his post 175 run like it didn't exist..he fought more than enough fights at CW

Yes but I was referring to before and immediately after his HW title. For years he toyed with the possibility of fighting at CW. Especially during the time he refused to go to Germany to fight Dariusz. You know Roy could’ve snatched a title anytime during his 175 reign and CW was 190 limit during that time. When Roy went up later his career was done, he no longer could make 175 easily and CW limit increased by 10lbs. I don’t count that as a serious title run at all.

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

 

[surv2syn]

You have a point. It just sucks that Bud was coming up at a time when money in Boxing was dwindling, and no one was willing to put up money to have risky fights. Just look at that Manny vs Cotto fight, both were in their primes willing to risk a loss on their record. shyt like that doesn't happen often today


Manny, Thurman, Danny Garcia, Matthysse, etc all ducked Bud because the risk wasn't worth the reward

I am just as pissed as you are that he never got Manny. Thurman and Garcia were not going to happen due to PBC. Really 5 years of his prime we were cheated out of. Same with B-Hop until he finally decided to play ball with Don King.

 

[surv2syn]

outside of CW which he tried and failed to compete..what other division for roy?

For further clarity. RJJ beats Hill at 175, cracks 3 ribs. 2 years later Hill wins WBA cruiser title, you don think Roy could have beaten him again? lol. And that’s just one example. Roy had 2 or 3 years at least prior to that where he could have challenged for a belt. Limit was 190 and he weighed in for Ruiz at 200. Odds were in his favor in his early-mid 30’s to win he just didn’t feel the risk was worth reward. Cruiser was non descript at that time. It came to life during the Mormeck and subsequent Haye years.

We have to remember, RJJ hat ptsd from Olympics which is why he refused to go to Germany.

 

[patscorpio]

Yes but I was referring to before and immediately after his HW title. For years he toyed with the possibility of fighting at CW. Especially during the time he refused to go to Germany to fight Dariusz. You know Roy could’ve snatched a title anytime during his 175 reign and CW was 190 limit during that time. When Roy went up later his career was done, he no longer could make 175 easily and CW limit increased by 10lbs. I don’t count that as a serious title run at all.

you have to...you dont fight a lebedev and say youre not making a serious title run at CW..154 maybe you can use a timing issue but you can't do that for CW..he got ko'ed 3 times there