Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
- Start date
Axum Ezana
Driving in the fast lane
dont forget scaryblackman
dont forget scaryblackman
I don't wanna tag that clown in here
He's definitely 2nd Team though
Quillin really has no shame 
TheLukieBaby
Pro
The KH Al Haymon lawsuit podcast
Axum Ezana
Driving in the fast lane
Heavyweight History with Emanuel Steward
Exclusive Interview by Geoffrey Ciani – Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward knows a thing or two about heavyweight history. Not only does he train reigning heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko (who became champ and had eight successful title defenses since teaming up with Steward), but he also worked with former undisputed heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis. Steward also trained many other notable heavyweights, including Evander Holyfield who defeated Riddikk Bowe to regain the heavyweight throne and Oliver McCall who Steward trained in his second round knockout victory over Lewis.
I was recently afforded the opportunity to have a lengthy discussion with the legendary trainer that focused on the rich history of the heavyweight division. During the hour long conversation, we discussed some of the most decorated personalities the sport has known and touched on some of the more memorable moments. This is part one of a three part series that explores heavyweight history with Emanuel Steward..
Q: A lot of Mike Tyson supporters tend to believe that he was unbeatable during his prime and many maintain he would never have lost a fight if Cus D’Amato had not passed away and some even argue that Tyson was ruined when he parted ways with Kevin Rooney. On the other hand, many of his detractors say he is overrated because he presided over a weak division. In your view, Emanuel, what is the truth about Mike Tyson and his legacy?
A: Well I think there’s definitely a legacy to begin with. I think that Mike Tyson, after Muhammad Ali, has had more of an impact on boxing—in particular heavyweights—than any other fighter I would say in the last twenty years. Tyson came up with the all black stuff on and no socks and that affected so many boxers, really in all weight divisions, where traditionally everybody wore the white stuff because that’s what the Ray Robinsons and Muhammad Ali (were wearing). He just had that much of an impact to the point where, sometimes I’ve trained guys who were 6’3”-6’4” and they start off they’re trying to do the Mike Tyson move, bob and the weave. So he has had a definitely strong impact on boxing—stronger than any other heavyweight I think other than Ali in the recent twenty years.
I think as a fighter he came along at the right time with a lot of guys who were really intimidated—I hate to say it, a lot of them, by him—because most heavyweights have big bodies but very small hearts and that’s why the strong minded guys such as he, Larry Holmes, George Foreman—they dominated the division because they’re strong-minded and strong-willed individuals. But I thought Mike came along at the right time with the speed, the intensity, and he made up for his lack of size by incorporating speed, and that’s what’s always effective, but when he fought the bigger guys who were like 6’4” guys or 6’3 ½” who were not afraid of him, he had problems. So I still have to respect him for what he did to be a little guy, only about 5’10 ½” It’s truly phenomenal. I think he still had his limitations. When he fought the guys like James “Quick” Tillis, my fighter Tony Tucker, I think even “Bonecrusher” (Smith)—these big guys who were not afraid of him and not intimidated, they were effective because he was still a small heavyweight, but all he could do is do what he did. He knocked out people but he did it in such a vicious, cruel manner and the way he came out with the destruct and destroy type attitude, it was just something that people thrived on.
I know, myself, I was up one time on a Friday night having a good time and I said, “Well, I got to leave, go home and watch Mike Tyson on HBO”—it must have been around about ’88 or ’89, and I know the HBO fights were on Friday nights and the guy asked me, he said, “Well who’s Mike Tyson fighting?” I said, “I don’t know, I don’t even care” because that’s how exciting you got to be about Mike. He was going to knock out somebody with their head snapping up in some cruel manner, but he brought that intensity and animal instincts out that I don’t think I saw any fighter in my lifetime, still, be able to do. It was just exciting to watch and totally transformed the image of boxing, as far as I’m concerned, in the heavyweight division to the degree that no one still after him has still captivated and had that impact on the audience and other fans the way that Mike Tyson has.
But as a great fighter? Eh, maybe he wouldn’t have held up with some of the bigger guys because he was still a small heavyweight and when he fought guys like figure Lennox Lewis and then the Klitschkos and them, he may have had problems but he did what was requested of him at his time—he knocked out everybody that they put in front of him and therefore, I have to say he definitely should be considered still a great fighter. He should be in the Hall of Fame because of the tremendous impact that he had on boxing.
Q: Now Emanuel, you trained Lennox Lewis and as I’m sure you know, a lot of fans were critical of him when he reigned as champion, however, since his retirement a lot of fans seem to have grown a deeper appreciation for Lennox and many now view him as the last great heavyweight champion. You had the unique perspective of working with Lennox—exactly how good was he?
A: Lennox was good enough that he would have been a problem with any heavyweight in history. You still have size and usually the biggest disadvantage of big fighters, I always say when they hit over 6’4”, is they lose coordination and that’s why the shorter fighters always could neutralize that size advantage because they were much faster and better coordinated. But Lennox became a fairly good coordinated fighter. His good left jab, he had a very good variety of punches—he was pretty decent with his left hook, he developed a good right uppercut, and as we all know he had a very good strong right hand always—and Lennox could be very physical when he wanted to. That was the one thing that made him a little different. Maybe not like Muhammad Ali running around the ring and a lot of times he fought a little technical but still, even with me and the rest of the camp, we didn’t know what he would do sometimes.
Sometimes he would come out and be overly aggressive and knock out a guy like Michael Grant, (Francois) Botha, and even (Andrew) Golota—and then sometimes he would fight a technical fight, very safety like he did with David Tua—and then you have the fights where he would just totally come to life in the first round with Mike Tyson. He said I’m going to make Mike respect me, and he went out and went toe-to-toe with Mike the first round instead of fighting a technical fight and once he had gotten respect from Mike, then he settled down and worked his boxing plan, but Lennox had a good variety of punches. He could do it with any and everything and if he had to be in a tough fight and had to dig down deep to come and pull it out, then he did that, and I remember him doing it with Frank Bruno.
I remember going back to the Olympics in ’84, no ’88, when he was fighting and realizing that he had waited four years for the Olympics and was about to lose again after getting to the finals, and he just stormed out against Riddikk Bowe after losing the first round and physically just crushed Bowe with really just strength. He just overpowered him, and I saw him do that in fights where he was losing, or maybe on the verge of losing. With Ray Mercer, when I told him the last two rounds were going to determine the fight, he looks down, and he goes out and he pulls it out even though he thought he was ahead on points already. The first fight with Evander Holyfield, even though the crowd was going crazy, I told him that I felt the fight was going to be closer. There was one particular judge I was very suspicious of and as it turned out, after winning the last round big, he got a draw. But the point is, when you told him to do something he would do it and he could be very physical and that’s what separated him from a lot of the big guys that I’ve worked with.
I would say a perfect example would really be the fight with Vitali Klitschko, his last fight. After being behind in the first three rounds, I realized that he was used to being the taller fighter and he was pulling back and relaxing and still getting hit with long punches because he was thinking he was out of range because he didn’t realize he was the shorter fighter. After I think the fourth round, I said, “Look, we got to change strategies. We got to take it to the streets.” I said, “When you out there and with your jab this time, don’t just jab—push all the way through where you push him off balance and if you miss with a left hook, bump him with your shoulders. When you get inside, start ripping uppercuts—just make it an alley fight.” He went out and he won the next two rounds, and at the end of the sixth round I think when I was talking to him, he said, “I got him now.” But he could resort to just being a brutal physical fighter if he had to and that’s one of the great attributes that I liked about him.
Look at the generation after him and the Klitschkos, which are dominating, it’s just unfortunate they really don’t have any name fighters to fight. He was fortunate, even though he was criticized earlier for being too technical and he was complaining to me that, “I don’t have a big name to fighter to fight since Riddikk Bowe” who he was really looking forward to fighting, refused to fight him—and later on, I was with Eddie Futch and Eddie Futch said that was a decision that he made. He felt that as good as Bowe was, he still felt that Lennox was still mentally and physically too strong and if they had fought, that what happened in the ’88 Olympics would have happened in the professional fight—that Lennox would have still just overpowered Bowe at a certain point. So it was his recommendation that Bowe give up the (WBC) title rather than fight Lennox.
So Lennox then had no one to fight he thought, and all of a sudden—BOOM. Here comes the fight with Evander Holyfield and then the fight with Mike Tyson—even though both had been past their primes as far as I’m concerned and most of the boxing public. They still were big marquee value name fighters and the Tyson thing was attractive because he was like the street guy, the thug, the tough guy, you know the American guy from Brooklyn, the gangster type—and so Tyson appealed so much to the urban type mindset. Lennox was still the big Brit, the ‘Momma’s Boy’, the easy going guy and so Mike was too much of a street guy for Lennox and all of that more so than make decisions about who was going to win or lose on the talent level. It was more on the idea of two different lifestyles clashing, but what people didn’t know was that Lennox himself as he was raised up in Kitchener, Ontario.
They use that Brit thing but he came from England when he was twelve years and started boxing when he was in Kitchener, Ontario which is about maybe forty-five minutes south of Toronto and that’s where he learned to box and he represented Canada in the Olympics and only after realizing he wins the Gold Medal in ’88 that, hey it’s more money with the British Pound than the Canadian Dollar. They decided then to try and relocate him and label him out of England. That’s why they never really accepted him because it wasn’t like he won the Olympics for England and he was fighting international matches—he had never did any amateur boxing in England. So he was never really accepted as a Brit completely. I mean, he was there but it wasn’t like (Frank) Bruno and the rest of the guys. So he was a man that was really like caught in between, you know, Canada, Jamaica which is the place that was the ancestry of both of his parents, and then the Brit thing, and then the fact that he did nearly all of his training in the latter part of his career in America and all of his fighting in America and he had an American staff. So he was really a guy that was tied up with like four countries that he was identified with.
I think the fact that since he retired the Klitschkos are dominating but they just don’t have any fighter that the public thinks is a good marquee value fighter so you basically get credibility by your performance against top notch opposition, and it’s unfortunate. He did get to fight some of those things, even the Shannon Briggs which was an exciting fight, the Ray Mercer fight—and none of these guys have a chance to fight any fighters right now after, so he is considered by most as being the last top heavyweight and he’s more appreciated now because of the comparison thing—of what he fought compared to what the modern fighters or champions are fighting.
Exclusive Interview by Geoffrey Ciani – Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward knows a thing or two about heavyweight history. Not only does he train reigning heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko (who became champ and had eight successful title defenses since teaming up with Steward), but he also worked with former undisputed heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis. Steward also trained many other notable heavyweights, including Evander Holyfield who defeated Riddikk Bowe to regain the heavyweight throne and Oliver McCall who Steward trained in his second round knockout victory over Lewis.
I was recently afforded the opportunity to have a lengthy discussion with the legendary trainer that focused on the rich history of the heavyweight division. During the hour long conversation, we discussed some of the most decorated personalities the sport has known and touched on some of the more memorable moments. This is part one of a three part series that explores heavyweight history with Emanuel Steward..
Q: A lot of Mike Tyson supporters tend to believe that he was unbeatable during his prime and many maintain he would never have lost a fight if Cus D’Amato had not passed away and some even argue that Tyson was ruined when he parted ways with Kevin Rooney. On the other hand, many of his detractors say he is overrated because he presided over a weak division. In your view, Emanuel, what is the truth about Mike Tyson and his legacy?
A: Well I think there’s definitely a legacy to begin with. I think that Mike Tyson, after Muhammad Ali, has had more of an impact on boxing—in particular heavyweights—than any other fighter I would say in the last twenty years. Tyson came up with the all black stuff on and no socks and that affected so many boxers, really in all weight divisions, where traditionally everybody wore the white stuff because that’s what the Ray Robinsons and Muhammad Ali (were wearing). He just had that much of an impact to the point where, sometimes I’ve trained guys who were 6’3”-6’4” and they start off they’re trying to do the Mike Tyson move, bob and the weave. So he has had a definitely strong impact on boxing—stronger than any other heavyweight I think other than Ali in the recent twenty years.
I think as a fighter he came along at the right time with a lot of guys who were really intimidated—I hate to say it, a lot of them, by him—because most heavyweights have big bodies but very small hearts and that’s why the strong minded guys such as he, Larry Holmes, George Foreman—they dominated the division because they’re strong-minded and strong-willed individuals. But I thought Mike came along at the right time with the speed, the intensity, and he made up for his lack of size by incorporating speed, and that’s what’s always effective, but when he fought the bigger guys who were like 6’4” guys or 6’3 ½” who were not afraid of him, he had problems. So I still have to respect him for what he did to be a little guy, only about 5’10 ½” It’s truly phenomenal. I think he still had his limitations. When he fought the guys like James “Quick” Tillis, my fighter Tony Tucker, I think even “Bonecrusher” (Smith)—these big guys who were not afraid of him and not intimidated, they were effective because he was still a small heavyweight, but all he could do is do what he did. He knocked out people but he did it in such a vicious, cruel manner and the way he came out with the destruct and destroy type attitude, it was just something that people thrived on.
I know, myself, I was up one time on a Friday night having a good time and I said, “Well, I got to leave, go home and watch Mike Tyson on HBO”—it must have been around about ’88 or ’89, and I know the HBO fights were on Friday nights and the guy asked me, he said, “Well who’s Mike Tyson fighting?” I said, “I don’t know, I don’t even care” because that’s how exciting you got to be about Mike. He was going to knock out somebody with their head snapping up in some cruel manner, but he brought that intensity and animal instincts out that I don’t think I saw any fighter in my lifetime, still, be able to do. It was just exciting to watch and totally transformed the image of boxing, as far as I’m concerned, in the heavyweight division to the degree that no one still after him has still captivated and had that impact on the audience and other fans the way that Mike Tyson has.
But as a great fighter? Eh, maybe he wouldn’t have held up with some of the bigger guys because he was still a small heavyweight and when he fought guys like figure Lennox Lewis and then the Klitschkos and them, he may have had problems but he did what was requested of him at his time—he knocked out everybody that they put in front of him and therefore, I have to say he definitely should be considered still a great fighter. He should be in the Hall of Fame because of the tremendous impact that he had on boxing.
Q: Now Emanuel, you trained Lennox Lewis and as I’m sure you know, a lot of fans were critical of him when he reigned as champion, however, since his retirement a lot of fans seem to have grown a deeper appreciation for Lennox and many now view him as the last great heavyweight champion. You had the unique perspective of working with Lennox—exactly how good was he?
A: Lennox was good enough that he would have been a problem with any heavyweight in history. You still have size and usually the biggest disadvantage of big fighters, I always say when they hit over 6’4”, is they lose coordination and that’s why the shorter fighters always could neutralize that size advantage because they were much faster and better coordinated. But Lennox became a fairly good coordinated fighter. His good left jab, he had a very good variety of punches—he was pretty decent with his left hook, he developed a good right uppercut, and as we all know he had a very good strong right hand always—and Lennox could be very physical when he wanted to. That was the one thing that made him a little different. Maybe not like Muhammad Ali running around the ring and a lot of times he fought a little technical but still, even with me and the rest of the camp, we didn’t know what he would do sometimes.
Sometimes he would come out and be overly aggressive and knock out a guy like Michael Grant, (Francois) Botha, and even (Andrew) Golota—and then sometimes he would fight a technical fight, very safety like he did with David Tua—and then you have the fights where he would just totally come to life in the first round with Mike Tyson. He said I’m going to make Mike respect me, and he went out and went toe-to-toe with Mike the first round instead of fighting a technical fight and once he had gotten respect from Mike, then he settled down and worked his boxing plan, but Lennox had a good variety of punches. He could do it with any and everything and if he had to be in a tough fight and had to dig down deep to come and pull it out, then he did that, and I remember him doing it with Frank Bruno.
I remember going back to the Olympics in ’84, no ’88, when he was fighting and realizing that he had waited four years for the Olympics and was about to lose again after getting to the finals, and he just stormed out against Riddikk Bowe after losing the first round and physically just crushed Bowe with really just strength. He just overpowered him, and I saw him do that in fights where he was losing, or maybe on the verge of losing. With Ray Mercer, when I told him the last two rounds were going to determine the fight, he looks down, and he goes out and he pulls it out even though he thought he was ahead on points already. The first fight with Evander Holyfield, even though the crowd was going crazy, I told him that I felt the fight was going to be closer. There was one particular judge I was very suspicious of and as it turned out, after winning the last round big, he got a draw. But the point is, when you told him to do something he would do it and he could be very physical and that’s what separated him from a lot of the big guys that I’ve worked with.
I would say a perfect example would really be the fight with Vitali Klitschko, his last fight. After being behind in the first three rounds, I realized that he was used to being the taller fighter and he was pulling back and relaxing and still getting hit with long punches because he was thinking he was out of range because he didn’t realize he was the shorter fighter. After I think the fourth round, I said, “Look, we got to change strategies. We got to take it to the streets.” I said, “When you out there and with your jab this time, don’t just jab—push all the way through where you push him off balance and if you miss with a left hook, bump him with your shoulders. When you get inside, start ripping uppercuts—just make it an alley fight.” He went out and he won the next two rounds, and at the end of the sixth round I think when I was talking to him, he said, “I got him now.” But he could resort to just being a brutal physical fighter if he had to and that’s one of the great attributes that I liked about him.
Look at the generation after him and the Klitschkos, which are dominating, it’s just unfortunate they really don’t have any name fighters to fight. He was fortunate, even though he was criticized earlier for being too technical and he was complaining to me that, “I don’t have a big name to fighter to fight since Riddikk Bowe” who he was really looking forward to fighting, refused to fight him—and later on, I was with Eddie Futch and Eddie Futch said that was a decision that he made. He felt that as good as Bowe was, he still felt that Lennox was still mentally and physically too strong and if they had fought, that what happened in the ’88 Olympics would have happened in the professional fight—that Lennox would have still just overpowered Bowe at a certain point. So it was his recommendation that Bowe give up the (WBC) title rather than fight Lennox.
So Lennox then had no one to fight he thought, and all of a sudden—BOOM. Here comes the fight with Evander Holyfield and then the fight with Mike Tyson—even though both had been past their primes as far as I’m concerned and most of the boxing public. They still were big marquee value name fighters and the Tyson thing was attractive because he was like the street guy, the thug, the tough guy, you know the American guy from Brooklyn, the gangster type—and so Tyson appealed so much to the urban type mindset. Lennox was still the big Brit, the ‘Momma’s Boy’, the easy going guy and so Mike was too much of a street guy for Lennox and all of that more so than make decisions about who was going to win or lose on the talent level. It was more on the idea of two different lifestyles clashing, but what people didn’t know was that Lennox himself as he was raised up in Kitchener, Ontario.
They use that Brit thing but he came from England when he was twelve years and started boxing when he was in Kitchener, Ontario which is about maybe forty-five minutes south of Toronto and that’s where he learned to box and he represented Canada in the Olympics and only after realizing he wins the Gold Medal in ’88 that, hey it’s more money with the British Pound than the Canadian Dollar. They decided then to try and relocate him and label him out of England. That’s why they never really accepted him because it wasn’t like he won the Olympics for England and he was fighting international matches—he had never did any amateur boxing in England. So he was never really accepted as a Brit completely. I mean, he was there but it wasn’t like (Frank) Bruno and the rest of the guys. So he was a man that was really like caught in between, you know, Canada, Jamaica which is the place that was the ancestry of both of his parents, and then the Brit thing, and then the fact that he did nearly all of his training in the latter part of his career in America and all of his fighting in America and he had an American staff. So he was really a guy that was tied up with like four countries that he was identified with.
I think the fact that since he retired the Klitschkos are dominating but they just don’t have any fighter that the public thinks is a good marquee value fighter so you basically get credibility by your performance against top notch opposition, and it’s unfortunate. He did get to fight some of those things, even the Shannon Briggs which was an exciting fight, the Ray Mercer fight—and none of these guys have a chance to fight any fighters right now after, so he is considered by most as being the last top heavyweight and he’s more appreciated now because of the comparison thing—of what he fought compared to what the modern fighters or champions are fighting.
Axum Ezana
Driving in the fast lane
Q: How would you rate a young George Foreman versus an older George Foreman, and when you take those two chapters of his career and put them together, how does that reflect on Foreman’s overall legacy?
A: George Foreman may be the most amazing, definitely heavyweight, that I ever saw in my lifetime. He had a whole career as one fighter with a personality and a style, and then ten years after a rest period so to say, a different fighter he had a different mindset and a different style to some degree—but the one thing that was really prevalent in both was a strong, strong will-minded person, and his unbelievable determination and mental strength as well as physical strength was just amazing. I think that what a lot of people don’t realize is George Foreman was an extremely smart fighter in the ring, too. The first George Foreman right after the Olympics was very aggressive, threw punches relentlessly, had tremendous knockout power in both hands, but still was such a smart fighter that he gradually burnt guys out. All of a sudden he decided to come back and not be such a mean guy, to be a pleasant jollier type of guy, but still, that meanness was still there in the ring and he changed his style a little bit to be adjusted to his age and not burn up too much energy. He developed the old Archie Moore type of crossbow defense type, but the one thing that was very consistent with him still was that he always had a thunderous jab and his jab was more like a ramrod. He would always throw a very good jab—not so technically beautiful, but it was very stiff and very hard.
He also would throw wide punches and then he would change up and throw a short punch. He analyzed his opponents very well. If you look at the knockout of Joe Frazier, you’ll see him like swishing a wide shot and Joe Frazier bobs under it and he swishes another wide shot and then he changes and throws a short right uppercut. I looked at him years later when he was fighting with, I think Michael Moorer—I saw him purposefully throw a couple of wide left hooks and he threw it again and Michael Moorer was getting into a mode of looking for wide punches, and then he stepped in and threw a short one two, then he did it again and—Bingo! You look at his fight with Gerry c00ney, same way—short left uppercut. He was very smart. He would throw wide punches, figure out where you were going to put your head in your defense, and then he would change up with a short punch, but I think he was very underappreciated. He would have been a big threat to any heavyweight of any era because of his size and his unbelievable tough mental attitude.
Q: Many fans view Evander Holyfield as one of the best heavyweights of all time, but at the same time, a lot of them believe he has hung around too long and that this is hurting his standing. Has Evander hurt his legacy by fighting on too long?
A: If history serves me right, I would say yes, we’ll say that now because we’re around while he’s still fighting too long, but after he retires as always, I think these last five years or maybe in his case maybe it’s almost ten years—I think the public will forget that, and they will go back to remembering him in his exciting fights. He hasn’t really, I think, hurt his legacy still. I think it is just today but as time goes on, it’s like Ali and so many great fighters were. I look at Ali’s last fights with Ernie Shavers, and even the (Trevor) Berbick and them and the Larry Holmes—but it’s funny, we don’t talk or remember them. The fans gradually after a certain period of time, those fights for whatever reason seem to like fade away and you remember a fighter from back in his prime. I think that it’s not going to hurt him in the long run. I would like to see him retire, but I don’t think in the long run it’s going to hurt him, though.
Q: Muhammad Ali always said he was the greatest. Was he the greatest, or does Joe Louis have something to say about that?
A: Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali both were the two greatest but in different ways. Joe Louis was the greatest champion because of the fact that what he did at the time. I thought having those record defenses and it’s just hard to be a guy who over eleven years had twenty-five defenses. He was a perfect image for what he did for the country and the fight that he had with Max Schmeling was probably the most epic event that I still have known of in my mind in, not just in sports, but in any event of the history of the world because that night was like the night that the world stood still, and this mean German machine that was like trying to take over the whole world, Hitler, that it was strange that these two men in a little small limited little space in America here, half naked with just something on their fists, were going to almost determine the fate of mankind so to say. And I learned as I’ve traveled, it wasn’t just in America. It was all over the world everybody was on pins and needles waiting on that, and the fact that Joe Louis came out and had such an unbelievable great knockout—especially in view of the fact that it was the same man who had knocked him out—and that was like trying almost to stop that whole Hitler reign. It was just that night, he became bigger than a boxer and no man is ever probably going to be in that position to do what he did. He was a world, when you say “champion”—I thought the epitome of the word “champion” was Joe Louis..
If they fought, I think Ali would have definitely, I feel in my mind, beat him because Ali was the computer printout of everything that was a problem for Joe Louis. The movement which Joe had problems with, even in a little small light heavyweight Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott, those guys Joe always had problems with. I was fortunate enough to get to know one of his best friends who came from Detroit like I did, and he said Joe’s management always had to keep him away from boxers, people who could move, because Joe had problems with movers. But you know, he did what he had to do. He beat everybody of his era and held the title for so long and was a perfect gentleman when it comes down to what was required and necessary at that time.
So I think he was the greatest champion when it comes to the word “champion” but as far as who would have beat who, I think Ali would have beat him, and then I have a lot of respect for Ali because Ali was the only champion that I know of that fought anybody, everybody. It was nothing about styles. He fought guys who were terrible for him style wise, but Ali would just tell Angelo Dundee, “Let’s fight”—and he put him with a guy like Kenny Norton who was always going to be a problem because of the way Kenny kept his elbows, he blocked jabs and right hands and that’s all Ali basically had and then he fought him I think three times; Joe Frazier; he went to London to fight Brian London and Henry Cooper; and he went I think to Canada to fight (George) Chuvalo; he fought Karl Mildenberger to fight the German in Germany. He didn’t care whose style that he had to fight so in that way, Ali was the greatest because fought anybody, everybody, in their country, if it was a style that was bad for him he didn’t care, fight him in a rematch he’d do that, whatever.
In their own ways they both were the two greatest, I think, heavyweight champions, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they could have still beaten a prime Larry Holmes or maybe even a George Foreman.
\
Q: Who do you think represents the toughest style match-up for Ali when he was at his very best?
A: You know, it’s hard to really say that because Ali fought every style there was and I think as rough as it was, would have been the guy he had so much trouble with—a little guy like Joe Frazier. If Joe Frazier would have been about I would say three inches taller and ten pounds more he would have really been a nightmare—but I think Joe Frazier because of the way Joe would go down, bob and weave, come out with a punch, but more than that Joe Frazier’s mental mindset. Joe had that same tough attitude that when Ali would try to do his psych stuff it didn’t bother Joe because Joe had the same type of a tough street attitude, too, and that was what made him such a big challenge to Ali. It’s just fortunate enough for Ali that Joe was not bigger, but Joe was the biggest threat to him I still think just because of just the style.
Ali could never just beat Joe with his jab and the right hand and that’s what made Ali I think great, also. At a certain point in the fights, in particular like the third and final fight, when he realized that his boxing skills were not going to take him to victory because he just couldn’t his rhythm together with Joe. He just said, “Oh I just have to fight, so every time I get hit with two punches I’ll try to throw four punches” and he did what he had to do to find a way to win and that was one of the unique things about Ali. When he found out that something wasn’t working he would just abandon the boxing skills, the pretty boy, and all of that stuff and just have to sit down and just outfight a guy and he had to do that really with Kenny Norton, I would say, the same thing, too. Norton’s style gave him problems but Norton wasn’t mentally, even though he was bigger, he didn’t have the mental meanness and toughness of a Joe Frazier.
A: George Foreman may be the most amazing, definitely heavyweight, that I ever saw in my lifetime. He had a whole career as one fighter with a personality and a style, and then ten years after a rest period so to say, a different fighter he had a different mindset and a different style to some degree—but the one thing that was really prevalent in both was a strong, strong will-minded person, and his unbelievable determination and mental strength as well as physical strength was just amazing. I think that what a lot of people don’t realize is George Foreman was an extremely smart fighter in the ring, too. The first George Foreman right after the Olympics was very aggressive, threw punches relentlessly, had tremendous knockout power in both hands, but still was such a smart fighter that he gradually burnt guys out. All of a sudden he decided to come back and not be such a mean guy, to be a pleasant jollier type of guy, but still, that meanness was still there in the ring and he changed his style a little bit to be adjusted to his age and not burn up too much energy. He developed the old Archie Moore type of crossbow defense type, but the one thing that was very consistent with him still was that he always had a thunderous jab and his jab was more like a ramrod. He would always throw a very good jab—not so technically beautiful, but it was very stiff and very hard.
He also would throw wide punches and then he would change up and throw a short punch. He analyzed his opponents very well. If you look at the knockout of Joe Frazier, you’ll see him like swishing a wide shot and Joe Frazier bobs under it and he swishes another wide shot and then he changes and throws a short right uppercut. I looked at him years later when he was fighting with, I think Michael Moorer—I saw him purposefully throw a couple of wide left hooks and he threw it again and Michael Moorer was getting into a mode of looking for wide punches, and then he stepped in and threw a short one two, then he did it again and—Bingo! You look at his fight with Gerry c00ney, same way—short left uppercut. He was very smart. He would throw wide punches, figure out where you were going to put your head in your defense, and then he would change up with a short punch, but I think he was very underappreciated. He would have been a big threat to any heavyweight of any era because of his size and his unbelievable tough mental attitude.
Q: Many fans view Evander Holyfield as one of the best heavyweights of all time, but at the same time, a lot of them believe he has hung around too long and that this is hurting his standing. Has Evander hurt his legacy by fighting on too long?
A: If history serves me right, I would say yes, we’ll say that now because we’re around while he’s still fighting too long, but after he retires as always, I think these last five years or maybe in his case maybe it’s almost ten years—I think the public will forget that, and they will go back to remembering him in his exciting fights. He hasn’t really, I think, hurt his legacy still. I think it is just today but as time goes on, it’s like Ali and so many great fighters were. I look at Ali’s last fights with Ernie Shavers, and even the (Trevor) Berbick and them and the Larry Holmes—but it’s funny, we don’t talk or remember them. The fans gradually after a certain period of time, those fights for whatever reason seem to like fade away and you remember a fighter from back in his prime. I think that it’s not going to hurt him in the long run. I would like to see him retire, but I don’t think in the long run it’s going to hurt him, though.
Q: Muhammad Ali always said he was the greatest. Was he the greatest, or does Joe Louis have something to say about that?
A: Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali both were the two greatest but in different ways. Joe Louis was the greatest champion because of the fact that what he did at the time. I thought having those record defenses and it’s just hard to be a guy who over eleven years had twenty-five defenses. He was a perfect image for what he did for the country and the fight that he had with Max Schmeling was probably the most epic event that I still have known of in my mind in, not just in sports, but in any event of the history of the world because that night was like the night that the world stood still, and this mean German machine that was like trying to take over the whole world, Hitler, that it was strange that these two men in a little small limited little space in America here, half naked with just something on their fists, were going to almost determine the fate of mankind so to say. And I learned as I’ve traveled, it wasn’t just in America. It was all over the world everybody was on pins and needles waiting on that, and the fact that Joe Louis came out and had such an unbelievable great knockout—especially in view of the fact that it was the same man who had knocked him out—and that was like trying almost to stop that whole Hitler reign. It was just that night, he became bigger than a boxer and no man is ever probably going to be in that position to do what he did. He was a world, when you say “champion”—I thought the epitome of the word “champion” was Joe Louis..
If they fought, I think Ali would have definitely, I feel in my mind, beat him because Ali was the computer printout of everything that was a problem for Joe Louis. The movement which Joe had problems with, even in a little small light heavyweight Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott, those guys Joe always had problems with. I was fortunate enough to get to know one of his best friends who came from Detroit like I did, and he said Joe’s management always had to keep him away from boxers, people who could move, because Joe had problems with movers. But you know, he did what he had to do. He beat everybody of his era and held the title for so long and was a perfect gentleman when it comes down to what was required and necessary at that time.
So I think he was the greatest champion when it comes to the word “champion” but as far as who would have beat who, I think Ali would have beat him, and then I have a lot of respect for Ali because Ali was the only champion that I know of that fought anybody, everybody. It was nothing about styles. He fought guys who were terrible for him style wise, but Ali would just tell Angelo Dundee, “Let’s fight”—and he put him with a guy like Kenny Norton who was always going to be a problem because of the way Kenny kept his elbows, he blocked jabs and right hands and that’s all Ali basically had and then he fought him I think three times; Joe Frazier; he went to London to fight Brian London and Henry Cooper; and he went I think to Canada to fight (George) Chuvalo; he fought Karl Mildenberger to fight the German in Germany. He didn’t care whose style that he had to fight so in that way, Ali was the greatest because fought anybody, everybody, in their country, if it was a style that was bad for him he didn’t care, fight him in a rematch he’d do that, whatever.
In their own ways they both were the two greatest, I think, heavyweight champions, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they could have still beaten a prime Larry Holmes or maybe even a George Foreman.
\
Q: Who do you think represents the toughest style match-up for Ali when he was at his very best?
A: You know, it’s hard to really say that because Ali fought every style there was and I think as rough as it was, would have been the guy he had so much trouble with—a little guy like Joe Frazier. If Joe Frazier would have been about I would say three inches taller and ten pounds more he would have really been a nightmare—but I think Joe Frazier because of the way Joe would go down, bob and weave, come out with a punch, but more than that Joe Frazier’s mental mindset. Joe had that same tough attitude that when Ali would try to do his psych stuff it didn’t bother Joe because Joe had the same type of a tough street attitude, too, and that was what made him such a big challenge to Ali. It’s just fortunate enough for Ali that Joe was not bigger, but Joe was the biggest threat to him I still think just because of just the style.
Ali could never just beat Joe with his jab and the right hand and that’s what made Ali I think great, also. At a certain point in the fights, in particular like the third and final fight, when he realized that his boxing skills were not going to take him to victory because he just couldn’t his rhythm together with Joe. He just said, “Oh I just have to fight, so every time I get hit with two punches I’ll try to throw four punches” and he did what he had to do to find a way to win and that was one of the unique things about Ali. When he found out that something wasn’t working he would just abandon the boxing skills, the pretty boy, and all of that stuff and just have to sit down and just outfight a guy and he had to do that really with Kenny Norton, I would say, the same thing, too. Norton’s style gave him problems but Norton wasn’t mentally, even though he was bigger, he didn’t have the mental meanness and toughness of a Joe Frazier.
Axum Ezana
Driving in the fast lane
Q: Rocky Marciano was the only heavyweight champion to retire undefeated. A lot of people do not rate him highly, however, because he is considered too small by today’s heavyweight standard. How should Marciano be judged, by his size or by what he did in his era? Also, do you believe Marciano’s size would be an impediment for him today from being as dominant as he was?
A: Marciano’s style definitely, he wouldn’t have made it today because when you don’t have size you make up for it with speed and he didn’t have the best speed, either. He came along at a time when there were still good heavyweights. I don’t think he gets the credit for what he should have gotten for fighting the guys like, even though Marciano was fighting (Ezzard) Charles when Charles was a little past his prime he was still a good tough fighter. I look at Archie Moore, when he knocked out Archie, I think Archie came back and went on another winning streak and really he had never even lost the light heavyweight title.
I think he was the epitome of what we call just an “overachiever”. When I was at the Kronk Gym, we had big posters pictures of Marciano and no one could figure out why because he wasn’t considered a great, but when you looked at his record and you looked at his accomplishments regardless of what, all you can do is be the best of your era. I think of his era, he fought and he beat the best but the fact that he was a small guy, not that well coordinated, short arms, had so many different physical handicaps and went on to do what he did through just unbelievable training and conditioning and great one punch punching power. So you have to respect him for that, and there was nobody of his era that he dodged. He just couldn’t find anybody who was a great fast fighter so he did what he could do for his era—beat everybody who was out there.
I think he was a much smarter fighter than people realize, too, in his own little short of way. I studied films of him, I would see him like get into a move and look like he’s going to move into a little clinch and just when he’s about to touch each other he changes in there with a short left hook, and he would sometimes look at your body like he was going to throw his right hand or jab to the body and then throw the right hand right over the top, but he was very cute and smart in his own ways because he knew he was handicapped in other areas.
I think his punching power and conditioning were phenomenal. You look at the knockouts of (Jersey Joe) Walcott—one punch in the thirteenth round after losing and being knocked down, and then to come back with Archie Moore after being on the deck with Moore, who was still a good fighter, and came back and knocked him out, and then the cut, nose torn completely apart with Ezzard Charles and they told him they were about to stop the fight and he just comes storming out and scores a knockout over that. So you had to have a lot of respect for that. And he created the word “Rocky”. He made it have a lot of value because for particularly the Italian fighters the kid coming up, even today, a lot of them feel he’s still their hero because he had more impact I think as a champion, in particular for the Italian kids and the white fighters, than any fighter probably maybe that I know of in history because of that unbelievable one punch punching power and his image for being in unbelievable condition.
Q: What are your views on the Super Fight computer match-up between Ali and Marciano that had Marciano winning by thirteenth round knockout, and how do you see this fight going down if Marciano and Ali squared off at their best?
A: If Ali and Marciano fought I see Ali winning. Ali was just too big and too fast and the fact that Ali had that great chin. Computers are programmed by men so to me, I don’t think if that was the case we wouldn’t even have to have any of the fights we have today—we could just have the fights on a computer to tell who won and who lost. You couldn’t do that. I think that Ali would have just been too big and too fast for Rocky, because Rocky was in an era when he was what heavyweights were—188-190 pounds. A 200 pound heavyweight was a big, big man then. A 200 pound heavyweight today is not even a heavyweight it’s a cruiserweight and really, a small cruiserweight compared to how some of them come in. At the time he was a heavyweight and he beat everybody around but I don’t think he would have beaten Ali, by no means. I think Ali was just too big and too fast, and in particular with Ali’s great chin and Ali’s great stamina in the late rounds.
Q: Jack Johnson is an interesting man in the rich history of the heavyweight division. Some fans tend to overrate him, others tend to underrate him—how do you rate him?
A: I think he was a totally amazing man more so than just as a fighter. I think that he was a good fighter. He brought a whole new era of control in a fight that I don’t think anyone ever controlled a fight with so much ease and was so relaxed during the course of the fight. When I look at his accomplishments in the ring, I think they’re amazing and good but I think he was more known for his, really, his character beyond boxing. His total going against going against the system and his total really just mission he had of just really like embarrassing the white male race and doing things that no one had ever done and probably today I don’t think anyone would do the things he did—that is what to me is more of his character than the actual boxing attributes.
I think he was a good fighter, but when we break it down, beating Tommy Burns a 5’7” guy in Australia, Stanley Ketchel another middleweight 5’7”, Jim Jeffries who was brought out of retirement to redeem the dignity of the white race—a man who had no business fighting a fighter in his prime, especially considering the fact that Jeffries was 36 years old I guess or something. He still didn’t fight the black fighters of his era that were good fighters and then I guess he loses to Jess Willard which he said he threw the fight.
It wasn’t where he fought and beat that many dominant heavyweights himself, but I think his character and arrogance is what really made him bigger than life. I mean, he was phenomenal businessman, he used to travel all over the world and negotiate his own deals, dressing up and changing clothes sometimes two or three times a day, talking with the top presidents of countries. He was just a truly amazing man I think, more so, than even just when you really break down the boxing part.
Q: Joe Frazier was the first man to beat Muhammad Ali, but according to some, his all time standing suffers because of the two knockout losses he suffered against George Foreman. Is Frazier still worthy of top ten consideration?
A: Well being the first man to beat Ali was really his biggest thing and it’s like as we’ve often said, a lot of times you’re only remembered by your big fights and his big fights are when Foreman knocked him out and with Ali was his biggest notarized fights. I think the fights that he had won with the (Oscar) Bonavena’s and all that and the Jimmy Ellis’s are just overshadowed and that’s unfortunate. I think Joe was a good fighter. I watched him come up we were in the amateurs together. Anyway, that’s another story.
I think the intensity that he had when he turned professional was really much on a kind of level very similar to a Mike Tyson. Joe might have been even a little bit more, in some ways, better than Mike to some degree. That’s a question, Mike was more of a devastating one punch guy, but anyway, I think that his image is always going to be tremendously tarnished because of his biggest fights he lost and he never will get the recognition he should. His whole legacy is all tied up with the one word “Ali” more so than even Foreman. It’s Ali and Joe Frazier. I mean, I have a friend of mine in Germany who has two cats—one of them is named “Frazier” and “Ali”, but those two became together just like Joe Louis and Max Schmeling.
Q: Riddikk Bowe’s physical prime, most people agree, happened during his first fight with Evander Holyfield. If Bowe had taken better care of his body and took training more seriously, how good could Bowe have been?
A: Bowe would have been a very good fighter, and I would say he could have been right in that top ten all time greats the way he was moving. I thought that was the epitome of the great craftsmanship of Eddie Futch. Eddie said that was because that was the one kid that he took from the beginning and developed him into a complete fighter. I remember very distinctively the night that he knocked out Jesse Ferguson because I was there in the arena because his next fight was going to be against a guy who I had just made a deal to start training named Evander Holyfield, who he already beat. He looked so good that night that in the post fight press conference I mentioned to Eddie and to at the time Rock Newman his manager and I said he looked like he became a complete perfect fighter and I didn’t even know how the hell I was going to even train Evander to beat him. I mean he looked so good, he was doing everything—the jabs, the uppercuts, combinations, he was just doing everything.
I think right after that fight, if I’m correct according to what Eddie Futch told me, that’s when Eddie said he lost control. For the first time then when he was the one laying down all of the strategies, that’s when the rest of the people in the camp and management took over and they decided he was going to be the next Ali, he’s got to go meet the Pope, and he said from there he lost all of his focus and discipline and the next fight was with, as you know, with Evander Holyfield and I had Evander in good shape so Evander beat him and that really tarnished his image, and then the fights with Golota and whatever. But he was on his way to becoming an all time great and I think the Jesse Ferguson fight was like the last of that trend when he was moving in that direction.
Q: How disappointed were you both as a fan and a trainer that Bowe and Lewis never fought as professionals?
A: I was very disappointed in the fight because I think it would have been a big good fight for boxing. It would have been almost like an Ali-Frazier type of situation, because both of them having the good pedigree background, and then the fight that they had had in the ’88 Olympics. You know, it was just all of the elements. Two super big goods and it was the match-up in that new modern era of guys who were 6’5” who had caught the nation, and I was very excited about the fight. I thought it was a good fight because Bowe turned out to be a complete polished fighter as compared to when he fought Lennox, and Lennox had become a much better fighter so it would have been a great match-up. I think it would have been great for boxing.
Q: Who do you think would have won?
A: I think Lennox would have beaten him at the time because the talent was there, but I just thought Lennox was still mentally and physically very strong. Bowe had a little slight edge maybe in the skill area a little bit, but I think in the course of a long twelve round fight having known Lennox very closely and still being fairly close with Bowe to some degree, going to camps and watching Eddie train him a little bit, that Lennox would have done pretty much what he did in the Olympics in ’88 and that’s what Eddie Futch felt the same thing. That Lennox was still a physically and mentally very strong guy and as much talent as Bowe had, there was always still a little kid inside of him, and Lennox was still a mean tough man inside of him and I think that would have made the difference coming down the stretch.
for audio.
http://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/127858
http://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/127951
A: Marciano’s style definitely, he wouldn’t have made it today because when you don’t have size you make up for it with speed and he didn’t have the best speed, either. He came along at a time when there were still good heavyweights. I don’t think he gets the credit for what he should have gotten for fighting the guys like, even though Marciano was fighting (Ezzard) Charles when Charles was a little past his prime he was still a good tough fighter. I look at Archie Moore, when he knocked out Archie, I think Archie came back and went on another winning streak and really he had never even lost the light heavyweight title.
I think he was the epitome of what we call just an “overachiever”. When I was at the Kronk Gym, we had big posters pictures of Marciano and no one could figure out why because he wasn’t considered a great, but when you looked at his record and you looked at his accomplishments regardless of what, all you can do is be the best of your era. I think of his era, he fought and he beat the best but the fact that he was a small guy, not that well coordinated, short arms, had so many different physical handicaps and went on to do what he did through just unbelievable training and conditioning and great one punch punching power. So you have to respect him for that, and there was nobody of his era that he dodged. He just couldn’t find anybody who was a great fast fighter so he did what he could do for his era—beat everybody who was out there.
I think he was a much smarter fighter than people realize, too, in his own little short of way. I studied films of him, I would see him like get into a move and look like he’s going to move into a little clinch and just when he’s about to touch each other he changes in there with a short left hook, and he would sometimes look at your body like he was going to throw his right hand or jab to the body and then throw the right hand right over the top, but he was very cute and smart in his own ways because he knew he was handicapped in other areas.
I think his punching power and conditioning were phenomenal. You look at the knockouts of (Jersey Joe) Walcott—one punch in the thirteenth round after losing and being knocked down, and then to come back with Archie Moore after being on the deck with Moore, who was still a good fighter, and came back and knocked him out, and then the cut, nose torn completely apart with Ezzard Charles and they told him they were about to stop the fight and he just comes storming out and scores a knockout over that. So you had to have a lot of respect for that. And he created the word “Rocky”. He made it have a lot of value because for particularly the Italian fighters the kid coming up, even today, a lot of them feel he’s still their hero because he had more impact I think as a champion, in particular for the Italian kids and the white fighters, than any fighter probably maybe that I know of in history because of that unbelievable one punch punching power and his image for being in unbelievable condition.
Q: What are your views on the Super Fight computer match-up between Ali and Marciano that had Marciano winning by thirteenth round knockout, and how do you see this fight going down if Marciano and Ali squared off at their best?
A: If Ali and Marciano fought I see Ali winning. Ali was just too big and too fast and the fact that Ali had that great chin. Computers are programmed by men so to me, I don’t think if that was the case we wouldn’t even have to have any of the fights we have today—we could just have the fights on a computer to tell who won and who lost. You couldn’t do that. I think that Ali would have just been too big and too fast for Rocky, because Rocky was in an era when he was what heavyweights were—188-190 pounds. A 200 pound heavyweight was a big, big man then. A 200 pound heavyweight today is not even a heavyweight it’s a cruiserweight and really, a small cruiserweight compared to how some of them come in. At the time he was a heavyweight and he beat everybody around but I don’t think he would have beaten Ali, by no means. I think Ali was just too big and too fast, and in particular with Ali’s great chin and Ali’s great stamina in the late rounds.
Q: Jack Johnson is an interesting man in the rich history of the heavyweight division. Some fans tend to overrate him, others tend to underrate him—how do you rate him?
A: I think he was a totally amazing man more so than just as a fighter. I think that he was a good fighter. He brought a whole new era of control in a fight that I don’t think anyone ever controlled a fight with so much ease and was so relaxed during the course of the fight. When I look at his accomplishments in the ring, I think they’re amazing and good but I think he was more known for his, really, his character beyond boxing. His total going against going against the system and his total really just mission he had of just really like embarrassing the white male race and doing things that no one had ever done and probably today I don’t think anyone would do the things he did—that is what to me is more of his character than the actual boxing attributes.
I think he was a good fighter, but when we break it down, beating Tommy Burns a 5’7” guy in Australia, Stanley Ketchel another middleweight 5’7”, Jim Jeffries who was brought out of retirement to redeem the dignity of the white race—a man who had no business fighting a fighter in his prime, especially considering the fact that Jeffries was 36 years old I guess or something. He still didn’t fight the black fighters of his era that were good fighters and then I guess he loses to Jess Willard which he said he threw the fight.
It wasn’t where he fought and beat that many dominant heavyweights himself, but I think his character and arrogance is what really made him bigger than life. I mean, he was phenomenal businessman, he used to travel all over the world and negotiate his own deals, dressing up and changing clothes sometimes two or three times a day, talking with the top presidents of countries. He was just a truly amazing man I think, more so, than even just when you really break down the boxing part.
Q: Joe Frazier was the first man to beat Muhammad Ali, but according to some, his all time standing suffers because of the two knockout losses he suffered against George Foreman. Is Frazier still worthy of top ten consideration?
A: Well being the first man to beat Ali was really his biggest thing and it’s like as we’ve often said, a lot of times you’re only remembered by your big fights and his big fights are when Foreman knocked him out and with Ali was his biggest notarized fights. I think the fights that he had won with the (Oscar) Bonavena’s and all that and the Jimmy Ellis’s are just overshadowed and that’s unfortunate. I think Joe was a good fighter. I watched him come up we were in the amateurs together. Anyway, that’s another story.
I think the intensity that he had when he turned professional was really much on a kind of level very similar to a Mike Tyson. Joe might have been even a little bit more, in some ways, better than Mike to some degree. That’s a question, Mike was more of a devastating one punch guy, but anyway, I think that his image is always going to be tremendously tarnished because of his biggest fights he lost and he never will get the recognition he should. His whole legacy is all tied up with the one word “Ali” more so than even Foreman. It’s Ali and Joe Frazier. I mean, I have a friend of mine in Germany who has two cats—one of them is named “Frazier” and “Ali”, but those two became together just like Joe Louis and Max Schmeling.
Q: Riddikk Bowe’s physical prime, most people agree, happened during his first fight with Evander Holyfield. If Bowe had taken better care of his body and took training more seriously, how good could Bowe have been?
A: Bowe would have been a very good fighter, and I would say he could have been right in that top ten all time greats the way he was moving. I thought that was the epitome of the great craftsmanship of Eddie Futch. Eddie said that was because that was the one kid that he took from the beginning and developed him into a complete fighter. I remember very distinctively the night that he knocked out Jesse Ferguson because I was there in the arena because his next fight was going to be against a guy who I had just made a deal to start training named Evander Holyfield, who he already beat. He looked so good that night that in the post fight press conference I mentioned to Eddie and to at the time Rock Newman his manager and I said he looked like he became a complete perfect fighter and I didn’t even know how the hell I was going to even train Evander to beat him. I mean he looked so good, he was doing everything—the jabs, the uppercuts, combinations, he was just doing everything.
I think right after that fight, if I’m correct according to what Eddie Futch told me, that’s when Eddie said he lost control. For the first time then when he was the one laying down all of the strategies, that’s when the rest of the people in the camp and management took over and they decided he was going to be the next Ali, he’s got to go meet the Pope, and he said from there he lost all of his focus and discipline and the next fight was with, as you know, with Evander Holyfield and I had Evander in good shape so Evander beat him and that really tarnished his image, and then the fights with Golota and whatever. But he was on his way to becoming an all time great and I think the Jesse Ferguson fight was like the last of that trend when he was moving in that direction.
Q: How disappointed were you both as a fan and a trainer that Bowe and Lewis never fought as professionals?
A: I was very disappointed in the fight because I think it would have been a big good fight for boxing. It would have been almost like an Ali-Frazier type of situation, because both of them having the good pedigree background, and then the fight that they had had in the ’88 Olympics. You know, it was just all of the elements. Two super big goods and it was the match-up in that new modern era of guys who were 6’5” who had caught the nation, and I was very excited about the fight. I thought it was a good fight because Bowe turned out to be a complete polished fighter as compared to when he fought Lennox, and Lennox had become a much better fighter so it would have been a great match-up. I think it would have been great for boxing.
Q: Who do you think would have won?
A: I think Lennox would have beaten him at the time because the talent was there, but I just thought Lennox was still mentally and physically very strong. Bowe had a little slight edge maybe in the skill area a little bit, but I think in the course of a long twelve round fight having known Lennox very closely and still being fairly close with Bowe to some degree, going to camps and watching Eddie train him a little bit, that Lennox would have done pretty much what he did in the Olympics in ’88 and that’s what Eddie Futch felt the same thing. That Lennox was still a physically and mentally very strong guy and as much talent as Bowe had, there was always still a little kid inside of him, and Lennox was still a mean tough man inside of him and I think that would have made the difference coming down the stretch.
for audio.
http://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/127858
http://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/127951
so much knowledge steward had 
..what a loss 
..what a loss 
mr heyzel
All Star
Keith Thurman willing to wait for big fights
July 1st, 2015 | Post FB Comment - 19 Comments
Share the post "Keith Thurman willing to wait for big fights"
By Allan Fox: WBA welterweight champion Keith Thurman (25-0, 21 KOs) isn’t in any kind of rush to get the huge mega-fights that are out there awaiting him in the future. While he’d like to get the big match-ups against the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao, he realizes that he’s the new generation of fighter and he’ll be getting the big fights once those guys walk away from the sport within a year or two.
The 26-year-old Thurman sees the welterweight division running through him in the future, as he takes over the 147lb class and becomes the big king of the division. It’s unfortunate that he can’t get a baton-passing fight against the likes of Mayweather or Pacquiao before they retire from boxing, but he’s not worried about it.
In the worst case scenario, Thurman could find himself locked in the same position as WBA middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin or WBA super middleweight champ Andre Ward, where he’s the best fighter at 147 but is unable to get the other top fighters to face him.
That’s where those two guys are, and it’s unclear if either of them is going to be able to land a big money fight while they’re still in their prime. If Thurman does become a big star on his own, then he won’t need to worry about being avoided because he’ll have fans flocking to see his fights regardless of whether the other top welterweights want to fight him or not.
“A lot of people, they’re just impatient in this sport. They want to talk a little bit now but they want to talk about more later,” Thurman said via Skysports.com. “It takes time for big fights to blow up. It happens. Me and my team, we take one fight at a time. We’re looking forward to July 11, we’ve trained for July 11. We’re not training for anything else.”
Thurman will be fighting Luis Collazo (36-6, 19 KOs) in a week and a half from now on July 11th on ESPN from the USF Sundome, in Tampa, Florida, USA. It likely doesn’t matter how good Thurman looks in the fight. Even if he impresses in a major way, he’s likely going to be ignored by Mayweather and Pacquiao, because he’s too young and dangerous at this point in his career for either of those guys to fight him.
Thurman would like to beat Collazo and then face Amir Khan, but that’s a fight that Khan has shown no interest in. Khan wants the mega-fight against Mayweather without having to take a risky bout against the likes of Thurman first because it’s simply too dangerous of a fight for Khan to take it. But Thurman can definitely help himself if he looks really great against Collazo and is able to obliterate him quickly.
Collazo hasn’t been stopped in ages, and it’ll be a nice feather in Thurman’s cap if he can get him out of there quickly rather than having to labor through 12 rounds to get the win.
“It’s an industry, it’s a business. It takes time. I’ve learned that. I’ve been on the scene for three years now,” Thurman said. “Just earlier this year, I got my first fighter in the top 10 [Robert Guerrero].”
Thurman has picked up some nice wins lately with victories over Robert Guerrero, Leonard Bundu, Jesus Soto Karass and Diego Chaves. Adding Collazo’s scalp to his resume would look really good right now, and might open some doors for him.
Share the post "Keith Thurman willing to wait for big fights"
The 26-year-old Thurman sees the welterweight division running through him in the future, as he takes over the 147lb class and becomes the big king of the division. It’s unfortunate that he can’t get a baton-passing fight against the likes of Mayweather or Pacquiao before they retire from boxing, but he’s not worried about it.
In the worst case scenario, Thurman could find himself locked in the same position as WBA middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin or WBA super middleweight champ Andre Ward, where he’s the best fighter at 147 but is unable to get the other top fighters to face him.
That’s where those two guys are, and it’s unclear if either of them is going to be able to land a big money fight while they’re still in their prime. If Thurman does become a big star on his own, then he won’t need to worry about being avoided because he’ll have fans flocking to see his fights regardless of whether the other top welterweights want to fight him or not.
“A lot of people, they’re just impatient in this sport. They want to talk a little bit now but they want to talk about more later,” Thurman said via Skysports.com. “It takes time for big fights to blow up. It happens. Me and my team, we take one fight at a time. We’re looking forward to July 11, we’ve trained for July 11. We’re not training for anything else.”
Thurman will be fighting Luis Collazo (36-6, 19 KOs) in a week and a half from now on July 11th on ESPN from the USF Sundome, in Tampa, Florida, USA. It likely doesn’t matter how good Thurman looks in the fight. Even if he impresses in a major way, he’s likely going to be ignored by Mayweather and Pacquiao, because he’s too young and dangerous at this point in his career for either of those guys to fight him.
Thurman would like to beat Collazo and then face Amir Khan, but that’s a fight that Khan has shown no interest in. Khan wants the mega-fight against Mayweather without having to take a risky bout against the likes of Thurman first because it’s simply too dangerous of a fight for Khan to take it. But Thurman can definitely help himself if he looks really great against Collazo and is able to obliterate him quickly.
Collazo hasn’t been stopped in ages, and it’ll be a nice feather in Thurman’s cap if he can get him out of there quickly rather than having to labor through 12 rounds to get the win.
“It’s an industry, it’s a business. It takes time. I’ve learned that. I’ve been on the scene for three years now,” Thurman said. “Just earlier this year, I got my first fighter in the top 10 [Robert Guerrero].”
Thurman has picked up some nice wins lately with victories over Robert Guerrero, Leonard Bundu, Jesus Soto Karass and Diego Chaves. Adding Collazo’s scalp to his resume would look really good right now, and might open some doors for him.
mr heyzel
All Star
Khan: Brook needs to prove himself; Rios is really just a lightweight
July 1st, 2015 | Post FB Comment - 15 Comments
Share the post "Khan: Brook needs to prove himself; Rios is really just a lightweight"
(Photo credit: Sumio Yamada) By Scott Gilfoid: If IBF welterweight champion Kell Brook (35-0, 24 KOs) wants to get a fight against Amir Khan (31-3, 19 KOs) he’s seemingly going in the wrong direction. Khan doesn’t approve of Brook fighting Brandon Rios in his next fight on September 12th at the O2 Arena in London, UK. That’s an opponent that Khan doesn’t rate because Rios found most of his success in his career at lightweight, where he held down briefly the WBA title until he ate himself out of the division.
Brook’s choice of Rios for his next fight is not the right move, as far as Khan is concerned. But if Khan is waiting for Brook to one day start fighting high quality fighters like Marcos Maidana, Keith Thurman, Shawn Porter [the new Porter], Danny Garcia and Adrien Broner, I think he might be waiting for a long, long time.
For some reason, Brook’s promoter Eddie Hearn isn’t making those fights for Brook. Instead of those guys for Brook, we’re seeing him fight the likes of Jo Jo Dan, Alvaro Morales, Frankie Gavin, Carson, Jones and Vyacheslav Senchenko.
“It’d be a big fight in the UK and I know the fans want it but this is all about timing,” Khan said to Ringcast.net. “He needs to prove himself at world level. Even Brandon Rios is a lightweight really.”
With the Khan is waiting and waiting on the Brook fight, I see him eventually waiting too long to the point where both guys are getting beaten. Khan and Brook are too flawed to wait much longer for their fight because they’re both going to get whipped once they stop fighting soft opposition. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Rios ends up destroying Brook and giving him his first official loss.
I think Brook deserved a loss in his fight against Shawn Porter last year, a fight in which Brook clinched like mad at a clip of 10 times per round. While some boxing fans thought it was genius for Brook to hold Porter each time he got close to him, I wasn’t one of them. I didn’t like the clinching Brook did against Porter, and I definitely didn’t like the clinching Adrien Broner did against Porter as well. Brook created the clinching blueprint for Broner to follow, but he didn’t get away with it like Brook did. Broner was docked a point by the referee, and Brook should have lost points as well for all the holding he did in that fight.
“Let him build his name, let him prove himself and let people say he’s untouchable and then I’ll come beat him,” Khan said.
Khan is in the same boat as Brook as far as needing to build up his name with quality wins. Khan has gone soft for the past three years after his loss to Danny Garcia. Khan’s popularity basically hit bottom with that fight, and he’s not taken on the right opposition to raise himself out of the mud that he put himself in. I mean, it’s nice that Khan is lecturing Brook and sounding like he’s coming from high, but the reality is he’s not different than Brook.
Both guys have fought softies pretty much the entire careers, and when they’ve faced the best, they’ve both held a ton in ugly, ugly fights. I wish they would stand in the pocket and fight in an exciting manner when stepping it up, but that’s not what they’ve done when fighting good opponents.
Share the post "Khan: Brook needs to prove himself; Rios is really just a lightweight"
Brook’s choice of Rios for his next fight is not the right move, as far as Khan is concerned. But if Khan is waiting for Brook to one day start fighting high quality fighters like Marcos Maidana, Keith Thurman, Shawn Porter [the new Porter], Danny Garcia and Adrien Broner, I think he might be waiting for a long, long time.
For some reason, Brook’s promoter Eddie Hearn isn’t making those fights for Brook. Instead of those guys for Brook, we’re seeing him fight the likes of Jo Jo Dan, Alvaro Morales, Frankie Gavin, Carson, Jones and Vyacheslav Senchenko.
“It’d be a big fight in the UK and I know the fans want it but this is all about timing,” Khan said to Ringcast.net. “He needs to prove himself at world level. Even Brandon Rios is a lightweight really.”
With the Khan is waiting and waiting on the Brook fight, I see him eventually waiting too long to the point where both guys are getting beaten. Khan and Brook are too flawed to wait much longer for their fight because they’re both going to get whipped once they stop fighting soft opposition. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Rios ends up destroying Brook and giving him his first official loss.
I think Brook deserved a loss in his fight against Shawn Porter last year, a fight in which Brook clinched like mad at a clip of 10 times per round. While some boxing fans thought it was genius for Brook to hold Porter each time he got close to him, I wasn’t one of them. I didn’t like the clinching Brook did against Porter, and I definitely didn’t like the clinching Adrien Broner did against Porter as well. Brook created the clinching blueprint for Broner to follow, but he didn’t get away with it like Brook did. Broner was docked a point by the referee, and Brook should have lost points as well for all the holding he did in that fight.
“Let him build his name, let him prove himself and let people say he’s untouchable and then I’ll come beat him,” Khan said.
Khan is in the same boat as Brook as far as needing to build up his name with quality wins. Khan has gone soft for the past three years after his loss to Danny Garcia. Khan’s popularity basically hit bottom with that fight, and he’s not taken on the right opposition to raise himself out of the mud that he put himself in. I mean, it’s nice that Khan is lecturing Brook and sounding like he’s coming from high, but the reality is he’s not different than Brook.
Both guys have fought softies pretty much the entire careers, and when they’ve faced the best, they’ve both held a ton in ugly, ugly fights. I wish they would stand in the pocket and fight in an exciting manner when stepping it up, but that’s not what they’ve done when fighting good opponents.
krackdagawd
Inspire.
No thread for Herrera vs Lundy 
If only Herrera stans put that energy they have for hating on the Son of God into their boy . :cmsas2:
If only Herrera stans put that energy they have for hating on the Son of God into their boy . :cmsas2:
mr heyzel
All Star
damn uncle Al must be treating these boys right
Boxing Legion @BoxingLegion 5h5 hours ago
"If anything was to happen to Al Haymon, I would retire from the sport of boxing."
-Peter Quillin
Boxing Legion @BoxingLegion 5h5 hours ago
"If anything was to happen to Al Haymon, I would retire from the sport of boxing."
-Peter Quillin
"Thurman has picked up some nice wins lately with victories over Robert Guerrero, Leonard Bundu, Jesus Soto Karass and Diego Chaves. Adding Collazo’s scalp to his resume would look really good right now, and might open some doors for him."
