Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[surv2syn]

He rarely out-jabbed fighters that were on or near his level
- James Quick Tillis out-jabbed him
- Buster Douglas out-jabbed him
- Holyfield out-jabbed-him
- Lewis out-jabbed him

Tyson IMO was fortunate to grab his titles when the aging champions were on the downside (Larry Holmes and Spinx) and his peers didn't rise up the ranks yet. He was fed alot of sub-par opponents early in his career to make him a superstar. I get it, his personality/aura was box office, but still. What I didn't like the most was when people would always find SOME excuse to pull out of their ass whenever he lost. The thing with Lennox Lewis is that he never "played the game" with the media, and the media hated him for it

Spinks definitely was not on downside. He was 32 and had a lot left if he wanted. He just went on Vlad and said he was afraid of Mike.

 

[UpAndComing]

The sub par opponents argument doesnt work considering the fact he became heavyweight champion at 20 years old ..he's not Wilder. Mike was 27-0 in his first 2 years of the sport when he beat Berbick. That is called a fast track. Tillis was a slick veteran who gave a developing Tyson a hard fight which Tyson did win and he even dropped him. shyt happens like that in boxing sometimes. Spinks was not on the downside. I despise when ppl say this. That man was undefeated and beat Holmes twice. Lewis wasn't that great pre McCall KO and fate threw a monkey wrench into Tyson-Holyfield fight not taking place in 91 when it was signed in their primes. Tyson cleaned up his division in his prime and beat a good amount of ex champions/contenders doing it.

Lewis dispatched of Razor Rudduck in 2 rounds, the same dude that Tyson went life and death with in 2 fights, that Tyson fans consider "a great win". Get real . The same "not great" Lewis who Bowe was willing to throw his world title in the trash for so he could not face him

Tyson never faced Bowe, Lewis (in his prime), Tua, Mercer, Moorer, Foreman, etc and people somehow give him the benefit of the doubt that he was a top guy in the 90s. Beating (aging) Holmes, Spinks, and Berbick is not some hall of fame run.


There ya'll go with another excuse. "If only Tyson fought Holyfield pre-prison time, he would have beat Holyfield". Right on time lol

 

[patscorpio]

Lewis dispatched of Razor Rudduck in 2 rounds, the same dude that Tyson went life and death with in 2 fights, that Tyson fans consider "a great win". Get real . The same "not great" Lewis who Bowe was willing to throw his world title in the trash for so he could not face him

Tyson never faced Bowe, Lewis (in his prime), Tua, Mercer, Moorer, Foreman, etc and people somehow give him the benefit of the doubt that he was a top guy in the 90s. Beating (aging) Holmes, Spinks, and Berbick is not some hall of fame run.


There ya'll go with another excuse. "If only Tyson fought Holyfield pre-prison time, he would have beat Holyfield". Right on time lol

Same argument goes for Lewis because Lewis had to Wilder himself out of that Bruno fight where as Tyson brutally got rid of Bruno in and out of his prime faster than Lewis did. in the case of Razor, Mike softened him up in those 2 fights. Similar to how Derevyanchenko got softened up by GGG. Lewis was a beneficiary of that lol.

 

[UpAndComing]

Same argument goes for Lewis because Lewis had to Wilder himself out of that Bruno fight where as Tyson brutally got rid of Bruno in and out of his prime faster than Lewis did. in the case of Razor, Mike softened him up in those 2 fights. Similar to how Derevyanchenko got softened up by GGG. Lewis was a beneficiary of that lol.

Tyson TKO'd Bruno in 5 in their first fight, Lennox TKO'd Bruno in 7. What are we even talking about here lol

The bolded. I definitely heard this one before. Tyson fans I swear

 

[patscorpio]

Tyson TKO'd Bruno in 5 in their first fight, Lennox TKO'd Bruno in 7. What are we even talking about here lol

The bolded. I definitely heard this one before. Tyson fans swear

what are you talking about? Tyson brutalized Razor..you only hearing it now is not really surprising to me

Tyson ko'ed Bruno twice faster than Lewis in and out of his prime and wasn't losing or being outboxed when he did it

 

[surv2syn]

Lewis dispatched of Razor Rudduck in 2 rounds, the same dude that Tyson went life and death with in 2 fights, that Tyson fans consider "a great win". Get real . The same "not great" Lewis who Bowe was willing to throw his world title in the trash for so he could not face him

Tyson never faced Bowe, Lewis (in his prime), Tua, Mercer, Moorer, Foreman, etc and people somehow give him the benefit of the doubt that he was a top guy in the 90s. Beating (aging) Holmes, Spinks, and Berbick is not some hall of fame run.


There ya'll go with another excuse. "If only Tyson fought Holyfield pre-prison time, he would have beat Holyfield". Right on time lol

It is what it is. I don’t give him credit or status for what he didn’t do but although they fought at the same time nearly all their primes were different. Mike’s prime was the earliest. Lennox was the latest. Their primes were years apart, Lennox even said this himself recently when reminiscing sparring Mike in the Catskills. Lennox is a few months older yet they didn’t fight until 15 years after Mike won the title, basically 20 years after they first sparred.

 

[patscorpio]

90s HWs if you think of top dogs..its always either going to be Holyfield or Tyson before Lewis is mentioned and Lewis really only became top dog at the end very end of the 90s

 

[UpAndComing]

It is what it is. I don’t give him credit or status for what he didn’t do but although they fought at the same time nearly all their primes were different. Mike’s prime was the earliest. Lennox was the latest. Their primes were years apart, Lennox even said this himself recently when reminiscing sparring Mike in the Catskills. Lennox is a few months older yet they didn’t fight until 15 years after Mike won the title, basically 20 years after they first sparred.

They didn't have different "primes", Tyson just stepped up in competition to face his peers and couldn't hang. Imagine someone saying you are not in your prime anymore WHEN YOU TURN 23 YEARS OLD lol, the age he lost to Buster Douglas. Sorry breh, can't rock with that. It's too convenient to say someone is out of their prime once they start losing more frequently

On top of that Lewis had a pretty good career/resume pre 1994 before he got with Steward... Gary Mason, Mike Weaver, Bruno, Tyrell Biggs, Razor Rudduck. And was already a British/European Heavyweight champ in 1991. It's just that the American public was slow to notice him. The HBO broadcast in the Rudduck fight, they sounded so shocked Lewis demolished Rudduck like that

 

[surv2syn]

If you don’t think Mike who wasn’t the same by the time he first fought Evander and gave a good go would not be super difficult for him during his first reign when Holy struggled with Dokes and Cooper idk what to tell you. Dokes, Cooper, and Qawi were good but none were considered better than Mike in his prime. Qawi was a great fighter but Holy got him after Spinks and split with him then.

 

[surv2syn]

They didn't have different "primes", Tyson just stepped up in competition to face his peers and couldn't hang. Imagine someone saying you are not in your prime anymore WHEN YOU TURN 23 YEARS OLD lol, the age he lost to Buster Douglas. Sorry breh, can't rock with that. It's too convenient to say someone is out of their prime once they start losing more frequently

On top of that Lewis had a pretty good career/resume pre 1994 before he got with Steward... Gary Mason, Mike Weaver, Bruno, Tyrell Biggs, Razor Rudduck. And was already a British/European Heavyweight champ in 1991. It's just that the American public was slow to notice him. The HBO broadcast in the Rudduck fight, they sounded so shocked Lewis demolished Rudduck like that

Prime isn’t age. Post prison Mike was past prime. He was in his prime when he fought Buster but Buster was in the best shape ever, did you see him against Tony Tucker? Remember Douglas would have met Mike sooner had he won that fight. Mike beat the guy who just stopped Buster so Buster wasn’t no damn step up you conveniently left that part out. He was a waste of talent and only fulfilled it on one fateful night. I remember weeks before the Holyfield fight and this nikka was on tv with his belly hanging over his pants.

 

[surv2syn]

They didn't have different "primes", Tyson just stepped up in competition to face his peers and couldn't hang. Imagine someone saying you are not in your prime anymore WHEN YOU TURN 23 YEARS OLD lol, the age he lost to Buster Douglas. Sorry breh, can't rock with that. It's too convenient to say someone is out of their prime once they start losing more frequently

On top of that Lewis had a pretty good career/resume pre 1994 before he got with Steward... Gary Mason, Mike Weaver, Bruno, Tyrell Biggs, Razor Rudduck. And was already a British/European Heavyweight champ in 1991. It's just that the American public was slow to notice him. The HBO broadcast in the Rudduck fight, they sounded so shocked Lewis demolished Rudduck like that

This is where Mike’s career gets minimized. He snatched every title. You can say what you want but he can’t be minimized in that regard I don’t care how weak you think the comp was. HE did it. Not Evander, not Riddikk, not Lennox. He took the WBA, WBC, IBF, all in a row and individually and cleaned it out with Spinks who was the lineal champ. Yet it was so easy. Mf’s today can’t do that shyt. This was his prime, not after 4 years of being in prison from since 25 years old. Lennox and Evander rank higher than Mike but Lennox virtually off of facing Evander. You starting to get in to hater territory breh.

 

[Knicksman20]

Same argument goes for Lewis because Lewis had to Wilder himself out of that Bruno fight where as Tyson brutally got rid of Bruno in and out of his prime faster than Lewis did. in the case of Razor, Mike softened him up in those 2 fights. Similar to how Derevyanchenko got softened up by GGG. Lewis was a beneficiary of that lol.

I'd argue & say Mike beat whatever prime Razor had in those 2 fights the hell out of him. They were brutal big punches landed in both fights. Razor I think had cracked ribs & a broken jaw in the 2nd fight

 

[theflyest]

Lewis was a great fighter but he just wasn't that popular or engaging...not like his compatriot Frank Bruno. Lewis had an issue with looking lackadaisical and going through the motions even in his wins. He gets his respect these days but fighters like Mike or Evander will overshadow him always even though he beat both of them.

Say what you want about Mike's career but his skillset was not one dimensional. He was 5'10/5'11 out jabbing taller nikkas with longer reach and was a legit high level 2 way fighter in his prime. Mike's skillset does not exist in HW boxing today.

Tyson is a small guy. It’s amazing he accomplished what he did.

I had more appreciation for his accomplishments once I saw him in person.

 

[morris]