Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.
- Thread starter Jesus Is Lord
- Start date
ill say Paul Williams wins that but itll be close.
I agree but It doesn’t really matter though, that’s MY POINT.
it’s all part of the game
no point in playing the “what if” game.
there is something incredibly emasculating about this...
I agree that PAC should beat a guy like Nate. Nate was still a little too good for Team Pacquiao to take that type of fight at the time though. It’s just a case of a guy that’s a little too good that doesn’t bring a big name to the table. However, he should beat him.
It’s interesting to look at how differently PAC’s career was managed at 147 vs the PAC at the lower weights. PAC at the lower weights was viewed as a great fighter, but as a guy susceptible to being outboxed. Therefore, he was managed more cautiously.
He gets to 147, and this mufukka fights bigger guys (Oscar/Hatton/Cotto/Clottey/Margarito) all back to back. That’s when I knew that dude was on another level.
The funny thing is although those guys are better then Nate in a p4p sense, I think Nate would have put up a better fight. Those guys at 147 just weren’t able to deal with PAC’s handspeed at all, and Nate being a LW, was more accustomed to dealing with faster guys. Regardless of the outcome, PAC never really lost to big WW’s, except Horn, who moved up.
Knicksman20
Superstar
I'm not saying it's not so I don't know where you going. Inactivity should always factor in someone's win when looking at it; especially historically.
That's been MY POINT that you don't get
Errol Spence going roy Jones in round 7...lol
you hate to read things like this
Frankie Randall toiled away in the lightweight and junior welterweight divisions for over a decade and his hard work was finally rewarded when he defeated the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on January 29, 1994.
That unforgettable triumph brought Randall the WBC junior welterweight title and recognition as the first man to defeat the Mexican icon in 91 fights.
However, time hasn’t been kind to Randall, who went on to lose the rematch to Chavez in contentious fashion. The now 58-year-old, who would also win the WBA 140-pound title twice, is being looked after in a care facility.
“My dad has pugilistic dementia and Parkinson’s,” Marcus Randall, the former three-time titleholder’s only child, told The Ring. “A frontal lobe brain injury that affects his speech, motor skills, and mental stability.
“Due to his condition, my family and I made the decision to place my dad in a nursing home in Tennessee. We wish to keep the location private at this time.”
Randall’s son has watched his father deteriorate over the last several years.
Randall flanked by his ex-wife and their son, Marcus. Photo courtesy of Marcus Randall
“I’m sure his condition progressed over time,” Marcus said. “He was a boxer; he gave his whole life to boxing, he loved his job. But my family and I have been dealing with his condition for almost 10 years.
“It has been hard to watch my father become a shell of what he used to be. It almost seems like he is stuck in time. I feel like he will wake up and be his normal self again, but that is not the case – this is a new fight. People will remember Frankie Randall the boxer, but it’s my dad, my hero, just sitting there, slowing down. It’s been a challenge, and the challenge has become my fight.”
Marcus doesn’t hold any bitterness toward boxing and the hand it has dealt his father.
“How could I hold ill will towards my father’s profession that provided for me,” he said. “His favorite quote was ‘I love my job’ and he made damn sure the world knew it. He worked hard to accomplish his achievements. He overcame hardships, personal struggles and many other challenges in his life. Boxing gave my father a lot, but what it took from me I will never get back, no matter how frustrated I get, no matter how hard it gets, no matter how much I wish I could snap my fingers and bring him out of this bad dream.”
He concedes that his father didn’t know any other way and fought on when, in hindsight, he should have looked at different career choices.
“My dad fought well past his prime,” Marcus acknowledged. “He gave every last ounce of his life to boxing. I do not know any professional athlete that wants to walk away from their identity. Boxing was his life; the way he made a living. Boxing was what he was known for, it gave him purpose.
“I’m sure if my dad was able, he would be in boxing, training fighters, sharing tips with his two grandsons. He would be sharing knowledge about the art of boxing – ‘The Surgeon’ doing what he loved. But our life is a different journey.”
Randall and his youngest grandson. Photo courtesy of Marcus Randall
Marcus’ two favorite memories of his father are him saying “I love my job” and the post-fight interview after he upset Chavez as a 15-1 underdog.
“I wanna say hello to my little boy back in Tennessee. Marcus, I love you, buddy!'” the new champion told Showtime that night.
The magnitude of the Chavez win isn’t lost on his former trainer Aaron Snowell, who has also worked with Tim Witherspoon, Mike Tyson, Julian Jackson and Tim Austin, among others.
“Just to knock down Julio Cesar Chavez, who had never been off of his feet before, was one great accomplishment, but to beat him, it’s part of boxing history,” said Snowell. “Plus, that was the opening of the MGM Grand, which is a great boxing oasis now.”
Snowell vividly remembers Randall speaking to his young son after Chavez regained the title.
“Frankie Randall loved his job,” said the trainer. “After the fight, Frankie’s son was riding in the van with us and crying because his father was feeling something from the fight. Frankie replied, ‘Stop crying, stop crying, you have always been my lucky charm…'”
Prior to scoring one of the more shocking upsets of the 1990s, Oliver McCall was known in boxing circles for sparring countless rounds with a prime Mike Tyson. According to gym folklore, Tyson was never able to hurt, much less drop the granite-chinned gatekeeper.
However, McCall proved to be much more than a sparring partner when he traveled to England and upset Lennox Lewis for the WBC heavyweight title in 1994. The former fringe contender didn’t hold the belt very long but went on to have a solid career that spanned four decades.
McCall was born in Chicago on April 21, 1965. He was the youngest of nine children, and his family lived on welfare in a tough part of town.
“I would say it was definitely tough for me and my family,” McCall told The Ring. “It wasn’t as tough for me, looking up at a lot of brothers and sisters. Those early days I was glad to have a big family.”
His parents split up and eventually McCall, never far from trouble, was sent to live in foster care as a teen. During this time he first encountered boxing and fought briefly as an amateur, compiling a record of 31-2 (28 knockouts).
It was in his early years as a pro that McCall was employed by a rising Mike Tyson as a sparring partner.
As McCall built his own career in the ring, he lost to the likes of Buster Douglas (UD 10), Orlin Norris (SD 10) and Tony Tucker (SD 12). After the Tucker loss in June 1992, McCall put together five wins to become the WBC mandatory challenger.
In September 1994, McCall traveled to London with trainer Emanuel Steward in his corner to face Lewis. The underdog stopped the Brit in the second round.
After successfully outpointing Larry Holmes in his first defense, McCall returned to London and was outboxed by Frank Bruno. He came back with two wins to set up a rematch with Lewis in February 1997.
The fight came to a bizarre conclusion in the fifth round after “The Atomic Bull” had a mental breakdown, crying at times and not engaging Lewis until referee Mills Lane stepped in and ended the spectacle. McCall was fined $250,000 from his reported $3 million purse.
McCall was able to piece his career back together, and despite ongoing trouble with drugs and the law, he fought on until 2014. He was never again able to fight for the world title, however, and retired with a record of 57-14 (37 KOs). Incredibly, the only stoppage loss on his record came against Lewis despite fighting well into his 40s during a career that lasted nearly 30 years.
Now 53, McCall lives in Texas, is married to childhood sweetheart Alethia and has seven children. He remains connected to boxing as a trainer for various fighters.
McCall graciously took time to speak to The Ring about the best he faced in 10 key categories.
BEST JAB
LARRY HOLMES: Larry Holmes definitely had the best jab. In the fight, (he) gave me a lot of problems by having such a quick, long right hand that made the jab more effective. He had a stiff jab. The jab I experienced from Larry Holmes was the jab that I seen him use as a young kid and he was heavyweight champion. I actually caught on to it a bit coming up and it helped me use my jab more. As a matter of fact, I think my jab is more like a Larry Holmes jab now than when I fought him, so I’ve learned some things.
BEST DEFENSE
MIKE HUNTER: When I fought Orlin Norris in Florida, he had that peek-a-boo style – he was pretty crafty. He had good movement and timing. Because he was short, it was more difficult to hit (him). When I fought Mike “The Bounty” Hunter, he was so unorthodox (that it was) difficult to hit (him). (Hunter) had unorthodox movement. He’d put his right foot in front of his left foot, overstep and still make you miss and keep his balance. Mike Hunter made Mike Tyson look real bad in sparring. This guy was something to see. I’d pick Mike Hunter.
FASTEST HANDS
BUSTER DOUGLAS: He had nice handspeed for a heavyweight. A Buster Douglas in shape is a dangerous Buster Douglas for any heavyweight champion in the history of boxing. The Buster Douglas that beat Tyson would have given any heavyweight in the history of boxing trouble that day.
BEST FOOTWORK
BRUCE SELDON: When I fought Tony Tucker in Cleveland, his footwork was a little better than I thought it was going to be. Tony “TNT” Tucker, for him being 6-foot-5 and the way he had his footwork and boxing skills at that size, (was impressive). I fought Bruce Seldon and he’d have to be up there too. He kept his balance pretty good. Between the two, it would have to be Bruce Seldon.
BEST CHIN
HOLMES: Wow! That is a difficult one. That would have to go Larry Holmes. I cracked Larry Holmes with some shots.
SMARTEST
HOLMES: I learned more from Larry Holmes (than any other fighter); he taught me a lot. Hands down. As far as craftiness, definitely Larry Holmes. Him winning that fight with Ray Mercer, that’s what made the fight with me that much harder, because I believe Larry Holmes thought, “I just whooped an Army sergeant.” So he thought he could do the same with me.
STRONGEST
FRANK BRUNO: Out of all my fights, Bruno was able to wrap me up, tie me up, wear me down, lean on me, hold me, elbow me. Look at the fight. I admire him, but it was a stretch as far as the refereeing of that fight.
BEST PUNCHER
LENNOX LEWIS: There was two; both come from London. The first one was with Bruno. I got hit with a right hand (in the first round) … and it made my eye swell. It made me timid coming in because if you hit it again, it’s gonna split, and I never had my eye cut in a fight. The second one would have to be in the third round of the second fight with Lennox Lewis. The punch I got hit with – and I remember that punch – it was a wallop. I looked over his shoulder and saw his momma rooting for him to knock me out, and I thought of my momma not being there. When that man hit me I was going to retaliate, and I broke down. The overhand right that hit me sent me reeling into the ropes, and as I came back I could have just held him if I hadn’t broken down. I thought, “Wow.” I just shut down. I’d pick Lennox. I’m just going off what went through my mind. Bruno hit me dead in the eye, but it wasn’t as brutal as far as the shock to my body or pain as that right hand was. When Lennox hit me with that right hand in the third round, that was a crunching right hand. It makes me think I don’t know how I could take the punches that came after it with my hands down.
BOXING SKILLS
HOLMES: I would have to say Larry Holmes as far as pure boxing skills. Me at my best and him at 25 percent (when we fought) and (him) being champion when I was a kid. He’s my dude as far as skills.
BEST OVERALL
HOLMES: Larry Holmes. It has to be Larry Holmes. As well as boxing skills, he could do the other things. He had an awesome jab. He learned how to box well. He learned not to make the same mistake twice. He learned when he got knocked down how to get up and still beat you down. Stuff like that. He had to put up with a lot of criticism. He was a great champion and it was a trip for me to face him.
LOL no it shouldn’t. I get your point and it’s silly. You aren’t saying anything complex or over my head. I just don’t agree with it.
Inactivity is apart of the sport. Fighters going into a fight under circumstances that aren’t ideal has always been apart of the sport. No one forced Keith to take that fight. He did it for the opportunity. There’s simply no excuses.
Most of these guys go into these fights with injuries we may not even be aware of or inactivity. It is what is it you really gonna nitpick every win, because someone wasn’t 100%? That’s on them
you think he gets the stoppage on some Hurd shyt or just a one sided beat down like the winky n phillips fight.
and Pac was like 2 fights removed from having bad heart problems going into the Thurman bout. Doctors didn't even want him taking that Mattysse fight.
Thurman's bad habit of blowing up in weight during his inactivity stretches came back to haunt him. He was never gonna have a bunch of tune ups for Pac. Dude already had the best resume at the weight. No need to risk it.
He's my dude but he lost to Pac because he didn't stay focused enough during his off season.
Bigblackted4
Superstar
When the fought would have happened I’d go Trout because of the trickiness and natural size. Williams had most trouble verse tricky guys.
This is a real good question right here. With a guy like Paul Williams, I can see him win in any kind of scenario.
I can see him knocking him out on some Quitana 2 shyt. I can see Trout being so exhausted after receiving numerous punches, that he just can’t continue on some Verno Phillips shyt. Or he may last the whole 12, which is probably the worst outcome. This is how you get your career ended.
Regardless, I just think Paul is too much for Trout.
Now Trout is a south paw, which are mainly the guys that gave Paul trouble, but he didn’t necessarily have the style or was he on the level of guys like Lara and Martinez. He may be better then Quintana, but Carlos had the right style.
Knicksman20
Superstar
Your continuing to argue, nitpick to drive home your agenda, & trying to have the last word is silly. Of course inactivity plays a big role in a win/loss. Saying it doesn't is very silly & I'm done with you so you can have the last word