we always knew he was right, hes just too pompousI'm shocked at all the hatred for Chuck
He knew Jimmy was dangerous, and he was right the whole time
The Official "Better Call Saul" Season 3 Thread
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I guess being pomp is a worse sin than being disingenuous to the average BB viewer
Walter was damn near just as stuck up as Chuck and definitely way more arrogant. I'm not complaining though, I like to see how everyone reacts differently to characters.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
These shows both do a great job of making you love the people you should be hating (Walt, Saul) and hating the good characters that actually try to prevent the entire thing from happening (Skylar, Chuck)I guess being pomp is a worse sin than being disingenuous to the average BB viewer
Walter was damn near just as stuck up as Chuck and definitely way more arrogant. I'm not complaining though, I like to see how everyone reacts differently to characters.
I'm watching with this chick and she HATES Chuck.. She loved their relationship all first season until you find out Chuck is the one who been blocking Jimmy.. Then she just hated Chuck. I asked her the same thing.....
"Why you hate Chuck when he was exactly right."
"I don't know.. He's just an a$$hole."
Most people are preprogrammed to root for the protagonist regardless of the consequences of their actions. I mean look at Tony Soprano, pretty much one of the most selfish, malcontented protagonists in television but is beloved by many.
Vince Gilligan himself even said there's no Walter without Tony.
Not in the beginning he wasn’t, he was loser Walter then Heisenberg took overI guess being pomp is a worse sin than being disingenuous to the average BB viewer
Walter was damn near just as stuck up as Chuck and definitely way more arrogant. I'm not complaining though, I like to see how everyone reacts differently to characters.
KalKal
Superstar
I guess being pomp is a worse sin than being disingenuous to the average BB viewer
Walter was damn near just as stuck up as Chuck and definitely way more arrogant. I'm not complaining though, I like to see how everyone reacts differently to characters.
I mean, we watch TV shows to be entertained.
Chuck is morally superior to Jimmy, but nobody wants to watch the "crazy guy locked up in a dark house with no electricity" show. So it turns into hatred of the character itself...because he's an obstacle in the way of the far more entertaining (but corrupt) Jimmy.
KalKal
Superstar
It's kind of interesting how the fans sort of turned around and came to actually like Howard by the end
I'm shocked at all the hatred for Chuck
I don't see Chuck as a good person. He's a societal conformist. He prefers that everyone else also conform because, as a powerful lawyer, he's in an advantageous position in it. But other than following the rules and having a vague sense of family responsibilty, how is Chuck actually "good"? He seems like an a$$hole and a dirtbag to me.
* Didn't tell Jimmy their mother's last words, out of pure spite
* Acts as an elitist, treats pretty much anyone "below him" dismissively (like Ernesto) and shyts on Jimmy's law degree
* Is jealous when Jimmy gets a laugh out of his wife, like he can't even handle his wife laughing at his brother's joke
* Wants Jimmy to fail in every way and gloats when he does
* Lies to Jimmy at several points in order to manipulate him, including lying about his role in Jimmy not getting the HHM job
* Threatened others (even Howard) when they didn't want to do things his way
* Most of all, Chuck continuously sabatogued Jimmy and wanted to see him fail. Claiming that Jimmy as a lawyer was "giving a chimp a machine gun" or whatever bullshyt line he used was full of crap, because Jimmy proved on multiple occasions that he was redeemable and could do good things, but Chuck's attempts to block him from actually using his talents is societally redeemable ways are a huge factor in why he ended up down the path he did. With Chuck's respect, under Chuck's wing, in a more positive environment, he could have been better. But Chuck was too bitter and jealous and committed to wanting Jimmy to fail, so he never saw that.
And pretty much all the actors/creators of the show involved have said at some point that Chuck is an a$$hole and that Jimmy's ability to do the right thing in the end did prove Chuck was wrong.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
This isn’t the end. We have BB to show, he was definitely a chimp with a machine gun. The very next episode after he said it, Jimmy goes to the old folks bud to solicit clients (illegal). He cut corners in cases. He lied for Mike to steal the cops notepad. He lied for the guy and the baseball cards.
It’s just like Walt. He’s doing juuuuuust enough to seem like a good guy and not enough harm to be considered bad…. But if you step back in eyes of a cop or a lawyer, they are clearly breaking laws and cutting corners. Just cause you go 60 doesn’t mean you’re better than the person going 70. When the speed limit is 50. Y’all both breaking the damn law
I feel like there was not enough talk on that ether that Howard laid down on Chuck.
Going into the meeting, he had already written the check and gathered the entire company downstairs for Chuck's farewell speech. Masterful chess move
Going into the meeting, he had already written the check and gathered the entire company downstairs for Chuck's farewell speech. Masterful chess move
Devilinurear
Veteran
best season so far
You just completely ignored all the shytty things Chuck did because, "Well Jimmy was a bad guy so Chuck gets a pass." There's a ton of evidence that Chuck was an a$$hole even outside of his blocking of Jimmy's career, and that's something Jimmy had dealt with his entire life. You can't just assume that Jimmy was completely irredeemable from the jump if he had been treated differently by the people most important in his life.
I'm still not seeing how Chuck is a "good person". He's a social conformist with power. He follows the rules because the rules are to his advantage, that alone does not make him a good person.
I guess being pomp is a worse sin than being disingenuous to the average BB viewer
Walter was damn near just as stuck up as Chuck and definitely way more arrogant. I'm not complaining though, I like to see how everyone reacts differently to characters.
Walt was a terrible fukking person from the jump. Anyone who doesn't see that is fooling themselves.
It would be interesting to try and list, "Who were the actual good people on this show?"
- Howard seemed like a good person in some ways, though I don't trust rich corporate lawyers very much so there's that.
- Nacho seems like he could have been a good person in different circumstances but why the fukk was he a gangster in the first place?
- Even though I hated Hank at first, hard now to think of anything wrong he did other than coming off as a blowhard
- Jr. is too much of a non-entity to really count
- Andrea is nice, Marie isn't bad outside of being a klepto, but both of them are hardly developed
Who did I miss? Coming back to it, I'd probably have to say Kim....because the good things she did for others seem to genuinely come from a good place, while the shytty things she did were either to people who sort of deserved it or weren't really gonna take that big an L (making a rich a$$hole slightly less rich isn't a huge loss). What happened to Howard looms very large, but it feels like the consequences were much greater than the "evil intentions".
Seemed like he had identity issues. Plus drugs didn't help. Probably didn't wanna be a mechanic or something like that.
Nacho's story is old as time itself.
Young guy that wants fast money. He was never a gangster, he was a hustler which seems like a minor distinction but he was never a violent guy. He didn't even want to discipline Krazy 8 until Hector made him.
Unfortunately as the series went on it became impossible to be a hustler without being a gangster which is when shyt went off the rails for him.
Fred.
Young guy that wants fast money. He was never a gangster, he was a hustler which seems like a minor distinction but he was never a violent guy. He didn't even want to discipline Krazy 8 until Hector made him.
Unfortunately as the series went on it became impossible to be a hustler without being a gangster which is when shyt went off the rails for him.
Fred.