The Official "Better Call Saul" Season 3 Thread

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Nacho's story is old as time itself.

Young guy that wants fast money. He was never a gangster, he was a hustler which seems like a minor distinction but he was never a violent guy. He didn't even want to discipline Krazy 8 until Hector made him.

Unfortunately as the series went on it became impossible to be a hustler without being a gangster which is when shyt went off the rails for him.

Fred.


Yeah, I was thinking of the Krazy 8 scene in particular when I thought of him being a good guy. Even a gangster might be willing to give everything for his father, but Nacho didn't even really want to hurt other gangsters either. He seemed to be chill towards his women too.

Pointing out that he's in it for the money/hustle does look like a viable line. That's in line with one of the most "immoral" things he did when his hand wasn't forced - stealing from Daniel Wormold. So far as I can remember, he basically did it just because he could.
 
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The Devil's Advocate

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You just completely ignored all the shytty things Chuck did because, "Well Jimmy was a bad guy so Chuck gets a pass." There's a ton of evidence that Chuck was an a$$hole even outside of his blocking of Jimmy's career, and that's something Jimmy had dealt with his entire life. You can't just assume that Jimmy was completely irredeemable from the jump if he had been treated differently by the people most important in his life.

I'm still not seeing how Chuck is a "good person". He's a social conformist with power. He follows the rules because the rules are to his advantage, that alone does not make him a good person.
I didn't say he was perfect. It was slipping Jimmy as a kid, Slipping Jimmy getting caught up time after time as an adult, Slipping Jimmy who went the easy route to get a degree, Slipping Jimmy cheating his way from day one to jail sentence...

Now we can imagine that Chuck takes him in and then he never ever cuts corners or commits crime... But again, we watched the show. Every single time he needed a way out, he'd cheat the system. Good cause or not, he was breaking laws to do so. He was another Walt. "I'm just doing it for good reasons" but no.. The "good" character is showing you a way out, on the up and up, and you refuse to take it, because "it's for a good reason"

No I'm not absolving Chuck of the fukk shyt he did. Skylar neither. But if Jimmy and Walt would have put the bullshyt down and REALLY changed their lives, the other two characters wouldn't have said shyt
 

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I didn't say he was perfect. It was slipping Jimmy as a kid, Slipping Jimmy getting caught up time after time as an adult, Slipping Jimmy who went the easy route to get a degree, Slipping Jimmy cheating his way from day one to jail sentence...

Now we can imagine that Chuck takes him in and then he never ever cuts corners or commits crime... But again, we watched the show. Every single time he needed a way out, he'd cheat the system. Good cause or not, he was breaking laws to do so. He was another Walt. "I'm just doing it for good reasons" but no.. The "good" character is showing you a way out, on the up and up, and you refuse to take it, because "it's for a good reason"

No I'm not absolving Chuck of the fukk shyt he did. Skylar neither. But if Jimmy and Walt would have put the bullshyt down and REALLY changed their lives, the other two characters wouldn't have said shyt


Claiming he took the "easy route" to get a degree is lame. He worked in that mail room for TEN YEARS while doing the correspondence work on the side and taking care of his brother too, and he legitimately learned the law. Who cares if it was a shytty by-mail school, he still did the work and earned the degree and clearly learned a lot in the process. At least in the show's universe, there's no indication that he cheated the system to earn the degree or become a lawyer.

I just don't see Jimmy and Walt as great analogies. Walt almost always held the power, and when he didn't have it, he figured out a way to get it back. Jimmy for most of the show was always subject to someone else's power, whether that was his brother or the law firm or the authorities, etc. And Jimmy tried to "break good" at multiple times in the show but was thwarted by circumstances, whereas Walt never really tried to get clean or do anything for others outside of his family/Jesse.

And Walt, to the very end, was still using threats and death to get what he wanted, he never truly accepted responsibility for the fact that the entire thing he did was a massive fukkup. From the laser pointer scheme to the final shootout, he was still the exact same Walt. Even three final scene in the lab, he loved the idea of the whole thing. Whereas Jimmy finally realized where he had gone wrong and accepted the consequences in a way that didn't hurt anyone else.

Skyler and Chuck aren't good analogies either. Skyler helped Walt far more than she hurt him, and honestly he didn't deserve it. Walt put his entire family in mortal danger and ruined his family life for his last two years on Earth solely due to his own pride. Jimmy took care of Chuck at home for years, worked as a peon in Chuck's firm for years, and only hurt Chuck as a reaction when Chuck had fukked him over and he felt he had no choice left.

Going back, I just realize that Jimmy/Chuck are such an obvious parallel to the Prodigal Son parable that that has to be intentional. Jimmy is the younger brother who goes off into the wilderness and gets involved in all sorts of fukk shyt, but comes back and wants to be forgiven. Chuck is the judgmental older brother who will never trust the younger and is pissed off that he might get away with his wins or ever have a "good" result. Chuck knows that God (or the firm in place of God) might want to forgive Jimmy and give him another chance, but he never will.
 
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The Devil's Advocate

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Claiming he took the "easy route" to get a degree is lame. He worked in that mail room for TEN YEARS while doing the correspondence work on the side and taking care of his brother too, and he legitimately learned the law. Who cares if it was a shytty by-mail school, he still did the work and earned the degree and clearly learned a lot in the process. At least in the show's universe, there's no indication that he cheated the system to earn the degree or become a lawyer.

I just don't see Jimmy and Walt as great analogies. Walt almost always held the power, and when he didn't have it, he figured out a way to get it back. Jimmy for most of the show was always subject to someone else's power, whether that was his brother or the law firm or the authorities, etc. And Jimmy tried to "break good" at multiple times in the show but was thwarted by circumstances, whereas Walt never really tried to get clean or do anything for others outside of his family/Jesse.

And Walt, to the very end, was still using threats and death to get what he wanted, he never truly accepted responsibility for the fact that the entire thing he did was a massive fukkup. From the laser pointer scheme to the final shootout, he was still the exact same Walt. Whereas Jimmy finally realized where he had gone wrong and accepted the consequences in a way that didn't hurt anyone else.

Skyler and Chuck aren't good analogies either. Skyler helped Walt far more than she hurt him, and honestly he didn't deserve it. Walt put his entire family in mortal danger and ruined his family life for his last two years on Earth solely due to his own pride. Jimmy took care of Chuck at home for years, worked as a peon in Chuck's firm for years, and only hurt Chuck as a reaction when Chuck had fukked him over and he felt he had no choice left.

Going back, I just realize that Jimmy/Chuck are such an obvious parallel to the Prodigal Son parable that that has to be intentional. Jimmy is the younger brother who goes off into the wilderness and gets involved in all sorts of fukk shyt, but comes back and wants to be forgiven. Chuck is the judgmental older brother who will never trust the younger and is pissed off that he might get away with his wins or ever have a "good" result. Chuck knows that God (or the firm in place of God) might want to forgive Jimmy and give him another chance, but he never will.
Maybe you need to hear Jimmy's monologue in court at the end... He definitely admitted to 90% of what I was talking about. Even killing Chuck through taking away his insurance on purpose

That's why I love this world they built though. Nothing is black and white. But for some reason, people love Walt and Saul, like those two didn't work hand in hand to destroy everything they touched. Kim knew it too. She even admitted the reason she kept doing the dumb shyt was because she knew if she didn't, he would leave her so he could be Slipping Jimmy alone. He knew it too

He admitted to all this along the way
 
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