The Lost Story of Islam in Jamaica
- Thread starter lini...
- Start date
How is what I said c00nish?
Virtuous_Brotha
Superstar
get off ya high horse,jesus was just as arab as mohammed
im an atheist so no cape but it confuses me how christian nikkas be like islam is for arabs blah blah as if Christianity is any less arab,you a notorious troll anyway so im posting this in vain 
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IT's not.... They don't understand the meaning of the word.
Some how your personal spiritual beliefs makes you against your own people regardless of what you actually do or think. .
Why do you feel that you have to make two contradictory statements just to make 1 valid point? you do this a lot...
But Anyway.....
Do you even realize how much of an understatement this is ? : The Muslim presence among slaves both in the Caribbean and America is under-researched and deserves scholarship.
You're assuming that she's not being objective. I don't know if she is or not... but if she isn't .... WHAT does it matter when most ideas and research on the subject have been GROSSLY crakkerfied or misguided, or fell victim to the results of Atlantic christian slavery?
And she's not black so her viewpoint shouldn't be taken or expected to be a viewpoint of a black Muslim. White and Asian atheist don't have the same viewpoints and worldview of Black Atheist. Same with Christians..... BUT somehow it's acceptable to generalize the views of all Muslims.... Especially black Muslims.
And this lady is Indian or something.. I don't know what she is..... but it's not like she is telling blatant lies in regards to African history. Of course she's doing the Islamic spin... .BUT it is true that many of those lands where black African kingdoms.... Some of the greatest in History, and happen to be Islamic empires. It's not a lie that Africans had some of those universities in the Muslim African lands. It's not a lie that some of the most prominent places in Africa's history and some the main kingdoms people like to point to.... just so happen to be Muslim.
So basically shes not black so her opinion can be whatever she wants it to be... but I know first hand that not all african Muslims threw out their traditional African beliefs. Some combined beliefs. And Only the Muslims traders and conquers allowed for that. The Jews, Pagan, Christian, Roman, etc..... groups didn't allow for that. Later on the CAC colonizers didn't allow for that. Only in one point of history were Africans allowed to still BE African.
And why are we trying to separate some of the African groups from their Muslim identities anyway?? So if a black person is a Buddhist he's a c00n? Considering all brown people on Earth for most of history were NOT atheist... does being a black Athiest make you a c00n?? Is Marcus Garvey a c00n cuz he was a Christian??? There is hardly anything that dates further back (that we can actually identify with and have knowledge of ) for some african groups than Islam. My own family line... I can trace it back further than anyone I know... and my people were never atheist and were muslim basically forever. And they still practice traditional African belief... I do as well. What would that look like someone like me simply dissing all of my Muslim ancestors in Africa just because I don't like Islam?
What are you so mad about? Half the things you said are just restatements of things I said, like Africans combining Islam with their native beliefs, something that woman is too fanatical to accept.
And why are you defending historical inaccuracy? You say that one problem is the Eurocentric hijacking of history, which is fine, I agree, but the non-African Islamicization of history this woman promotes isn't any better. Calling Africans savages and primitive people who were civilized by Islam is the precise mirror of Europeans saying Africans were savages who were civilized by Christianity, slavery and colonialism. Both are deeply racist and anti-African. I'm not going to defend shytting on native African cultures just because the person who does it is anti-European, and I don't see why you feel the need to do so.
I'm not mad... was just saying stop trying to diss Islam - on the back of some non-black lady's viewpoints on Africa.
And I only skimmed the link...cause I saw that her picture wasn't black (so basically irrelevant) .. but did she say Africans were savages?
And What really "deeply racist and anti-Afican" is the notion from all of you athiest (maybe not u in particular) and the Christians assuming that Islam spread in African because the 'backwards' africans were too weak to fight off the Arabs so they were forced to be Muslim.
Look at an area like the Sudan.... The spritual rules and customs weren't That much different pre-Islam. There were closer to Islam than they were to other African groups and Islam was closer to their beliefs than Muslims were to other Arab and asian views. The fusion of cultures wasn't some miraculous thing - It made sense at the time especially for trade.
And there was a military and cultural advancement... post Islam in African.... Not because the Islam made them great but because it unified groups that would normally not be unified. People hate on the Islam precense in African as if African has ever had ANY unity at all. From tribe to tribe Africans were Never unified until the Islamic empires created groups that could allow african to trade ideas, sail the seas, and take over other continents.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
No one is trying to diss Islam.
Why don't you read the the little blurb in the link digest it and get to back to us and tell us what you took away from it.
I think it's an interesting idea. I'm not really seeing the basis for it at all.
A lot of things from Africa carried over to the Caribbean. There are West African religions, songs, customs, words, foods, and more that I probably couldn't even begin to list
I'm not trying to be funny but Islam was not one of them. You really have to ask yourself why it didn't continue to be followed/passed on? Was Islam not important enough to these people? Was Islam present in numbers great enough to sustain it in the first place?
I'm really not trying to be a prick but this is the logical way I see things.
@The Real whats your best guess?
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i read the post in the thread... and you should read up on history..
aren't you Jamaican?
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
What should I be reading?
Yes I am.
What does the fall of Granada have to do with Islam in the Americas in this case?
Were there Muslims among the Conquistadors/mercenaries? More than likely. We're talking about black slaves from West Africa...
I added more on to my post above.
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"Islam prevailed over obeah (witchcraft)... in influencing the actions, behavior, and attitude of the enslaved Africans."
Notice how all the diverse, native African belief systems are lumped into one category, "obeah," which she specifically makes synonymous with "witchcraft." Replace Islam with Christianity, and that sentence sounds exactly like something a white racist would write about Africans.
Page 161:
"Cedric Robinson... calls the slave resistance in the Americas... influenced by African traditions embedded in obeah, voodoo, and hoodoo. These analyses only strengthen traditional Eurocentric views that Africans were uncivilized polytheists, steeped in witchcraft and ancestor worship."
Here she takes Black scholar Cedric Robinson to task for underestimating the Muslim influence on slave rebellions. Notice that her only comment about connecting native African religions to slaves is that they feed into "Eurocentric" views that Africans were uncivilized and did witchcraft. There's no room in her narrative for African beliefs that aren't "uncivilized." That's literally the only way she is capable of seeing pre-Islamic ideas.
Page 162:
"Cedric Robinson's work, instead of upholding the greatness of West African cultural and moral traditions based on monotheistic Islamic belief... falls into the trap of Western scholarship of damnation of the Africans into the world of evil darkness and brutal savagery."
Again, notice how she manages to twist a pro-Black writer's work praising the way that native African beliefs allowed slaves to develop pride and resist oppression and turn it into a "damnation" of Africans into "evil darkness and brutal savagery." The reason she doesn't agree with Robinson's pride in African religion and sees his work as spreading negative ideas about Africans is that in her world, savagery is all that pre-Islamic African culture is. Does that sound like a pro-Black writer talking?
Page 162:
"The promotion of African indulgence in obeah only strengthens the images of Africans as devoid of science and intellectual enlightenment but an Africa based on superstition and falsehood."
So now ANY reference to the presence of native African beliefs is somehow racist AGAINST Africans! If this woman were Black, at this point I'd have no choice but to accuse her of rampant c00nery.
Page 162:
"Since obeah or the practice of witchcraft symbolizes evil and stands against goodness and the creation of the Supreme Creator, it is prohibited in Islam. The pursuit of obeah or magic leads to the establishment of falsehood based on superstitious beliefs with the help of evil spirits called Jinn in Islam. Islam offers special protection against witchcraft to its followers. Exorcism is also a common practice among Muslims to free people or places from such evil spirits."
And there's the religious ranting I mentioned.
Bottom line, any Black man supporting this kind of racist filth is either wildly ignorant or a self-loathing tapdancer themselves.
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