The Levant an Extension of Africa? Let's take a look shall we?

[Bawon Samedi]

This is a great thread but I just wanted to make one observation too, I don't think we should be so caught up in trying to prove the African identity of ancient Hebrews and the like. I feel that while interesting, important to explore, and (at least partly) true, it is more in the interest of diasporic Africans to learn more about traditional West African culture and spirituality. Pan-Africanism is cool but if you're descended from West Africans, you have at best a tangential and distant relationship to Northeast Africa/the Levant, and there's really no reason to identify so much with that region given the rich culture of West Africa.

I just think our overemphasis on Abrahamic stuff is a carryover from the imposition of Western ideas and forced conversion.

But this thread isnt about West Africa or trying to prove a relationship with the Hebrews or Northeast Africans, so I don't understand?

 

[Poitier]

"you have at best a tangential and distant relationship"

This is true for everyone......we are talking 1000s of years ago.

 

[JahFocus CS]

But this thread isnt about West Africa or trying to prove a relationship with the Hebrews or Northeast Africans, so I don't understand?

I was speaking in general about African-Americans and this forum and not about your posts in particular. But it seemed to me that pages 2 and 3 were going in that direction a bit

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I was speaking in general about African-Americans and this forum and not about your posts in particular. But it seemed to me that pages 2 and 3 were going in that direction a bit

I understand. But I must state that people(including Eurocentrics) talk about Egypt and Northeast Africa because like I said in the OP they had a big influence in not only the bible but in history in general. Egypt alone indirectly gave the west their writing script. This is why Eurocentrcis want to take NE Africa out of Africa. And this is why many AA's mostly talk about NE Africa because Eurocentrics in the past have tried their hardest to remove NE Africa from Africa.

Indeed we should give West Africa its attention(I know I have here), since WA civilizations like Mali also had a big impact on the world. But unlike NE civilization we don't have to fight for WA civilizations. Its not about finding a relationship, but placing NE Africa back in Africa(at least from my viewpoint). People who say we shouldnt focus too much on Egypt should note this imo.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Just found something interesting.

The discovery of an Egyptian-style tomb at Tel Halif in the Negev Desert suggests an Egyptian colonial presence in southern Israel ca. 3000 B.C. Most burials in the region are in caves or shaft tombs attributed to the Canaanites, but this one, built during the Early Bronze 1B period (3300-3000 B.C.), is typical of contemporary tombs in Egypt, according to excavators Thomas Levy of the University of California, San Diego, and David Alon of the Joe Alon Regional Research Center in Israel. A 30-foot-long passageway descends to the burial chamber, which is about 26 feet long, 16 feet wide, and nine and one-half feet high. Within the dome-shaped chamber is a plastered stone platform on which the skeleton of a woman was found. About 25 years old when she died, she was found in a fetal position facing east, characteristic of Egyptian burials.

That an Egyptian was buried at Tel Halif "gives us evidence of a full-blown Egyptian colony in Israel right after the crystallization of the first Egyptian state," says Levy. "Egyptians were known to have very profound and elaborate belief systems about the afterlife and what was required to get there. One of these requirements was to die and be properly entombed on Egyptian soil. I think it's very likely that this part of southern Israel was considered part of greater Egypt during this period."

Egyptian ceramics, seal impressions, and bread molds found at Tel Halif support an Egyptian occupation. Among these artifacts is a potsherd engraved with the serekh, or sign, of King Narmer, who is believed to have united Upper and Lower Egypt between 3050 and 3000 B.C.

Source:
http://archive.archaeology.org/9701/newsbriefs/negev.html

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Found some genetic stuff on the Phoenicians but don't know how accurate it is but note it is a European based site.

• E-V22 is found primarily in western Ethiopia, northern Egypt and in the southern Levant. In Europe it is therefore associated with the Phoenicians and the Jews, in addition to the propagation of agriculture. The Phoenicians could have disseminated E-V22 to Sicily, Sardinia, southern Spain and the Maghreb, and the Jews to Greece and mainland Italy and Spain. However, the Mediterranean route for the diffusion of agriculture (see map above) went through the exact same regions. It is therefore impossible to know at present which of the two periods (Neolithic or Classical Antiquity) played the stronger role in the spread of V22 around the Mediterranean.

E-M123 is most commonly found in Ethiopia (5-20%), where it appears to have originated. Its main subclade E-M34 probably emerged in the southern Levant, where it reaches its maximum frequency (10-12% among the Palestinians and the Jews, 8% among the Bedouins, 5% in Lebanon), then expanded in every direction across North Africa (3-5%), the Middle East and South Asia, Anatolia (3-6%) and southern Europe, particularly Italy (1 to 8%). The distribution of E-M123 matches almost exactly the early expansion of farming in the Middle East (see map above) during the Neolithic period, but not so much in Europe, where the only possible association with a Neolithic culture is as a minor haplogroup of the Cardium Pottery culture. E-M123 is conspicuously absent from the part of the Balkans where E-V13 reaches its maximum (Thessaly, Albania, Kosovo) as well as from most Slavic countries, which is strong evidence that M123 wa not associated with the Thessalian Neolithic and its offshoots, like the Linear Pottery culture.

In Europe E-M123 is only observed at frequencies over 2.5% in southern Italy, in the Spanish region Extremadura (4%), and the Balearic islands of Ibiza and Minorca (average 10%). E-M123 could have been brought to the Mediterranean coasts of Europe by the Phoenicians, and to Italy by the Etruscans (from Anatolia). The Romans might have contributed to spreading it around their empire at low frequencies.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@Czar

Can you post the stuff you have on the Phoenicians when you're ready?

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

thread is

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Some good Phoenician pictures someone posted to me on Egyptsearch:

 

[Bawon Samedi]

A Semitic slave. Ancient Egyptian figurine. Hecht Museum

 

[Malik]

When white people talk about "The Great Aryan Race", are they talking about all of Europe and any and everyone who has white skin....or just the Nordics from the farthest northern reaches of Europe. Just a question

 

[Bawon Samedi]

When white people talk about "The Great Aryan Race", are they talking about all of Europe and any and everyone who has white skin....or just the Nordics from the farthest northern reaches of Europe. Just a question

All of Europe, but sometimes extending outside of Europe like Iran, North Africa, South Asia,etc.

 

[Malik]

All of Europe, but sometimes extending outside of Europe like Iran, North Africa, South Asia,etc.

So why do they turn around and tell us we can't have all of Africa

 

[Bawon Samedi]

So why do they turn around and tell us we can't have all of Africa

Because their Eurocentrics/Racists. Read the OP.

 

[Trajan]

@Marvel cannot breathe when @Czar is around

Hilarious

He's on his neck ASAP