The Legacies Of The Cavs,Warriors And...Gil Scott Herion

[CHICAGO]

The Cavs would have been a 64-68 win team this year if Kyrie hadn't missed 29 games, I think perception of them changes next year if they stay healthy, they should win mid to upper 60s.

THEY WENT 20-8 WITHOUT KYRIE.
(NOT COUNTING LAST GAME OF SEASON
BECAUSE NONE OF THE STARTERS PLAYED)

THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO 28-0 IN THOSE GAMES
TO REACH 65 WINS....

NOT BUYING IT.





​

 

[G-Zeus]

THEY WENT 20-8 WITHOUT KYRIE.
(NOT COUNTING LAST GAME OF SEASON
BECAUSE NONE OF THE STARTERS PLAYED)

THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO 28-0 IN THOSE GAMES
TO REACH 65 WINS....

NOT BUYING IT.





​

I think they mean kyrie wouldn't have come back so awkward and then playing so selfishly from missing ASG

At the end of the season they came together but for a while they played like shyt... I do think though they might have gone 23-5 in the first 28 game with kyrie.. some losses where just because of stagnant offense

 

[Malta]

THEY WENT 20-8 WITHOUT KYRIE.
(NOT COUNTING LAST GAME OF SEASON
BECAUSE NONE OF THE STARTERS PLAYED)

THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO GO 28-0 IN THOSE GAMES
TO REACH 65 WINS....

NOT BUYING IT.





​

They were 37-16 in the games he played, he was on minutes restriction and not very good for most of the season.


So, with a full training camp (which they've yet to have) a team that went 57-25 wouldn't be 5-9 games better with their all-star PG from the start? They were 34-9 last season after the trade that got them Shumpert/Mozgov/JR Smith, that's a 60+ win pace.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

ahhhh something like that happened last season to the Cavs. Love out injured then Kyrie injured in the finals.

And this has relevance to my posts how?

 

[FTBS]

When did I say LeBron lobbied to get him suspended....

If you're gonna make stuff up I don't see the point in having a discussion. We aren't even talking about basketball now and you're ignoring what I say.

I mean, it also would have been avoided if LeBron doesn't step over him and speak about the incident candidly in the post game press conference. He played an active role in that as did the Cavs FO putting pressure on the league to do something about it.

but the suns never won a title. Had they ever done so they would have gotten acknowledgement for being an all time great team just as the KG Celtics are (added more about them in my previous post, but they are absolutely ATG status even though they have just one ring). The '11 Mavericks aren't that because they don't really have anything about them that's historically significant or dominant outside of Dirk going wild. And they couldn't even sustain that team for longer than one season

I can't really subscribe to completely eliminating the regular season or the quality of basketball a team plays over an entire campaign just to focus on their ring count. What you do that's historically significant over a stretch of time matters. Every single era in this leagues history spans multiple ATG squads and for the Warriors to not be one of them from this era would be crazy talk. 25 years from now it won't even be a discussion but now I guess it'll take some time for people to really get on board with how ridiculous this team has been these past two years

What is playing an active role and putting pressure if it ain't lobbying?

 

[Consumed]

What is playing an active role and putting pressure if it ain't lobbying?

What I said. Stepping over Green as he's on the ground, speaking about the incident after the game saying that he's a father of three children and was disrespected.

Lobbying is what the Cavs front office did literally pushing the league to take action against Green. I did not put that on LeBron.

 

[FTBS]

What I said. Stepping over Green as he's on the ground, speaking about the incident after the game saying that he's a father of three children and was disrespected.

Lobbying is what the Cavs front office did literally pushing the league to take action against Green. I did not put that on LeBron.

Semantics. Just to be clear you are saying that he played an active and intentional role in getting him suspended correct?

 

[CHICAGO]

They were 37-16 in the games he played, he was on minutes restriction and not very good for most of the season.


So, with a full training camp (which they've yet to have) a team that went 57-25 wouldn't be 5-9 games better with their all-star PG from the start? They were 34-9 last season after the trade that got them Shumpert/Mozgov/JR Smith, that's a 60+ win pace.

THE TEAM GOES AS BRON GOES...
HE DONT REALLY TURN UP UNTIL THE 2ND HALF.
KYRIE PLAYING WOULDNT HAVE CHANGED THAT.

IF HE WANTED TO GO HARD
AND GET 60+ WINS
HE COULD HAVE DID THAT WITHOUT KYRIE PLAYING A SINGLE GAME.





​

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

How exactly did they get complacent?.

You're not being serious are you?

For the series the teams were about even on open looks. GSW was slightly better.

GSW

NBA.com/Stats


NBA.com/Stats

I don't see how this is relevant to my argument, considering I was speaking about the amount of open shots they received and didn't make, specifically over the last three games (I already stated that the Warriors defense couldn't stop the Cavs - bringing up their open looks doesn't hold any weight here).

That's quite clearly a significant drop from the playoffs as a whole (47% on 24.5 open shots - second most in playoffs - only behind T'Blazers) and the regular season (50% on 25.3 open shots - third most in regular season - only behind Wizards and Clippers). They got relatively the same amount of open looks during those last three games as they've been getting all season/playoffs long but were just missing more than they usually do.

The Cavs weren't shutting them down for long stretches at all. Warriors were shytting the bed on offense by not capitalizing on open shots like they normally do.

BTW notice the Warriors shot just about the same on open shots in this year's Finals as they did last year (slightly better in some areas ex. wide open 3s).

That was until the last three games when they started making their open shots in the '15 Finals:

First three games - 41% on 24 open shots per game
Last three games - 49% on 21 open shots per game

The Cavs were actually giving them less open looks (contrary to popular belief) during those last three games when GS went 3-0.

They missed more as the series wore on, you don't think that had anything to do with the Cavs strategy, extremely physical on defense, attacking Steph on the other end, closing off the paint etc.? Granted something like is just about impossible to quantify. Could just be they ran extremely hot early in the series and regressed to the mean as the series grew longer.

Less that and more the playoffs taking a toll on them physically and mentally (most certainly in Barnes' case), going through a cold run and complacency (they've been guilt of this all season long - it just so happened it came back to bite them at the worst time) because they executed when they needed to against a more physical and better defense during the WCF.

 

[Consumed]

Semantics. Just to be clear you are saying that he played an active and intentional role in getting him suspended correct?

For the altercation itself. I place blame with both LeBron and Green for that

I don't think it's fair to assume LeBron pushed for or intentionally tried to get Green suspended. His post game comments drew attention to the situation, but he's a candid guy in interviews and said the same thing last year when Noah called him a bytch so I won't say he did that to force the leagues hand. Cavs FO on the other hand.....

 

[Sccit]

Neither is an all time great team atm .. But gs is def much closer

 

[Malta]

THE TEAM GOES AS BRON GOES...
HE DONT REALLY TURN UP UNTIL THE 2ND HALF.
KYRIE PLAYING WOULDNT HAVE CHANGED THAT.

IF HE WANTED TO GO HARD
AND GET 60+ WINS
HE COULD HAVE DID THAT WITHOUT KYRIE PLAYING A SINGLE GAME.





​

Kyrie playing would have changed that because he can carry the offensive load while Bron coasts. They had a 60 win pace last year after the trade, with a full training camp they would have been a 60+ win team this season.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Why are we even talking about "the Cavs" as if they're the dynasty to measure.


Like Bill Simmons predicted 4 years ago, this is "Lebron's Lebrons" we're talking about here. Six straight NBA Finals appearances, three titles in five years. The greatest dynasty of the 2010s. Who cares that the team's name and city changed at some point?

 

[HoopLife]

It hurts my stance how? Why would the Cavs be looked at differently? I saw you say some shyt about the Cavs winning between 64-68 games had Kyrie not missed 29 games which makes no sense seeing how Cleveland had a better record during the first 41 games(30-11) which Kyrie missed the majority than they did in the last 41 games(27-14) which Kyrie played the majority of. They were never on a 60 win pace with Kyrie so what did you even base that dumb shyt on?

Don't you think the reason the Cavs struggled once Kyrie came back was because he was recovering from a broken knee cap that caused him to miss all of training camp and preseason? He had to use half the season to work himself back into game shape and regain his shooting touch. He was shooting 21% from 3 in his first 2months back from injury, compared to the 43% he typically shoots from 3. 65 wins is definitely atainable if they had a healthy Kyrie that didn't need half the season to regain his quickness/shooting and rhythm

 

[JameisNewton]

I mean, it's on you if you ignore LeBron's role in that. And if you just acknowledged that the Warriors would have won the title if he were not suspended, then they aren't an all time great team because of an incident that has nothing to do with basketball? What kind of logic.......

A great year and a nice run includes the Boston Celtics establishing themselves as one of the best defenses in all time in that stretch. You win a championship with that type of historical billing, you are in the long list of all time great squads. If multiple rings is your classification for considering a team such no matter the level of play a team records in a span of time you're way oversimplifying it and ignoring other factors.

If you chose to remember the Warriors only for having one title and a historical collapse, I definitely question yours.

32-1