The Last of Us Part II | PS4 | June 19th (NO OPEN SPOILERS)

Hostile

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In Neil's original draft before Haley Gross influenced him

Ellie kills Abby and therefore either directly or indirectly kills Lev
This is the only change from the original draft and honestly I think the game wouldn't be as controversial if players got what they wanted by getting revenge
The random forgiveness towards the object of your greatest hate didn't make sense and I had to reframe everything and pay attention to detail for it to make sense and therefore not reduce the quality of the story for me. I was okay with everything going on until that blatant cop out ending. Without the necessary work, I agree the ending is trash and a huge cop out. Otherwise, it makes sense but the game would have been more powerful showing revenge can be just as satisfying as forgiveness, hence the costant cycles of violence we always see. That fukked up ending would would unbelievably dark and complete Ellie's character arc for Part 2, showing the darkest depths of her character, for a redemption in Part 3 having lost her humanity like Joel, curse of kids becoming their parents. Commercially, we'll see what the long term sales of this game are especially after the HBO show because even though I enjoyed the game, I also understand why people hate the game and I almost hated the game because of that dumb ass ending that is stupid from the perspective of revenge and forgiveness. I It only makes sense in terms of Ellie saving her own humanity, showing forgiveness can be just as satisfying as revenge
But showing revenge is just as satisfying as forgiveness would also be a nice twist and make more sense given the theme, even if predictable, because of the EFFECT of playing as the person you kill as well a child, which is huge as Ellie already killed a pregnant woman. So the ending both does and does not make sense based on how you frame it or how much you hate the game. I think Neil should have stuck with the original ending as we never had the perspective of killing someone that you had a chance to play as as well as child.
The only way I'd be okay with that ending is if they took out the part where
Abby beat the shyt out of Ellie AND her team at the theater. Ellie was outclassed after that and winning the final battle against a weakened Abby wasn't going to even the score.
 
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The only way I'd be okay with that ending is if they took out the part where
Abby beat the shyt out of Ellie AND her team at the theater. Ellie was outclassed after that and winning the final battle against a weakened Abby wasn't going to even the score.
That's the point, hate that leads to revenge leads to satisfaction of revenge dominating everything until it is fulfilled
That also comes with playing as someone with a child and understanding their motives, which would have made Neil's original dark ending more powerful.
No one cares about the honor of their revenge did Abby care about hers?
Did Abby care when Joel saved her? Nope REVENGE comes first and she made sure his death wasn't easy. Yet with the immense satisfaction came with further loss of her humanity, and therefore new enemies that fukked up her life as consequence, even though she as well of all of her friends most likely dying on Scar Island during the climatic fight in the end, the irony.
It's about revenge and nothing else

The honor of it has nothing to do with it notice how you don't care about all the pawns who got fukked up in between like a pregnant Mel, Owen who isn't innocent but tried to see humanity in others but lost his life for it, Jessie, Tommy getting fukked, etc.

Her having a random flashback out of nowhere makes a lot less sense and is honestly a more of a cop out move. Why have Abby and Lev live if they weren't in the original draft other than to maybe use them again in Part 3? If that's the case it's a cop out even if with the required work it works as an ending. Of course Ellie's unconscious conveniently has a moral epiphany that love for your humanity can be just as satisfying as the satisfaction of revenge, as she is choking the cause of her revenge in the first place, and makes an alternate choice. Never seen a movie, show, or story where this occurs so conveniently ever.

Haley Gross was the influence and I find it odd why she wanted Neil to change that ending so bad, when it is logically consistent with the character's actions, dark theme of the game, and the classic patterns of revenge. In fact, killing Abby and therefore Lev by association, a child who spared my life by making Abby stop (who wouldn't care if Ellie and Dina were WLF let's be honest) in that weakened state would have been more of a powerful message showing revenge down to the nasty gritty details. You want revenge? This is what it looks like. Would have been a more powerful message showing us exactly why these cycles can't stop and why Abby turned into what she did to Joel coming full circle, instead of cliched forgiveness and stopping cycles.
By the end of it, it could show Ellie not really being healed but instead having experienced incredible satisfaction while being left with almost non-existent humanity to enjoy her life, be happy, and give herself meaning, losing an opportunity to enjoy life as a human being by only defining herself in terms of revenge for Joel like she only defined herself as the cure in Part 1, this time it was her choice vs. Joel making the choice for her in Part 1
But with the required work and reframing the change they made also works even though I think Neil should have stuck to his dark theme staying true to the dark nature of TLOU series.
 
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I think they needed to show Abby suffer at the hands of those California demons.
The rattlers/fat gerald was a huge missed opportunity in terms of
further humanizing Abby even if you hate her to make Neil's original dark ending more impactful where you still feel some type of way even if you hate her and finding a clever way of letting Abby live
Imagine Ellie and Abby being enslaved together, stuck in the same prison?
Or like you mentioned showing Abby's suffering where even if you hate her you have to feel some type of empathy as a human being even for your enemies because of slavery
A lot of ways they could have went
 

Hostile

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That's the point, hate that leads to revenge leads to satisfaction of revenge dominating everything until it is fulfilled
That also comes with playing as someone with a child and understanding their motives, which would have made Neil's original dark ending more powerful.
No one cares about the honor of their revenge did Abby care about hers?
Did Abby care when Joel saved her? Nope REVENGE comes first and she made sure his death wasn't easy. Yet with the immense satisfaction came with further loss of her humanity, and therefore new enemies that fukked up her life as consequence, even though she as well of all of her friends most likely dying on Scar Island during the climatic fight in the end, the irony.
It's about revenge and nothing else

The honor of it has nothing to do with it notice how you don't care about all the pawns who got fukked up in between like a pregnant Mel, Owen who isn't innocent but tried to see humanity in others but lost his life for it, Jessie, Tommy getting fukked, etc.

Her having a random flashback out of nowhere makes a lot less sense and is honestly a more of a cop out move. Why have Abby and Lev live if they weren't in the original draft other than to maybe use them again in Part 3? If that's the case it's a cop out even if with the required work it works as an ending. Of course Ellie's unconscious conveniently has a moral epiphany that love for your humanity can be just as satisfying as the satisfaction of revenge, as she is choking the cause of her revenge in the first place, and makes an alternate choice. Never seen a movie, show, or story where this occurs so conveniently ever.

Haley Gross was the influence and I find it odd why she wanted Neil to change that ending so bad, when it is logically consistent with the character's actions, dark theme of the game, and the classic patterns of revenge. In fact, killing Abby and therefore Lev by association, a child who spared my life by making Abby stop (who wouldn't care if Ellie and Dina were WLF let's be honest) in that weakened state would have been more of a powerful message showing revenge down to the nasty gritty details. You want revenge? This is what it looks like. Would have been a more powerful message showing us exactly why these cycles can't stop and why Abby turned into what she did to Joel coming full circle, instead of cliched forgiveness and stopping cycles.
By the end of it, it could show Ellie not really being healed but instead having experienced incredible satisfaction while being left with almost non-existent humanity to enjoy her life, be happy, and give herself meaning, losing an opportunity to enjoy life as a human being by only defining herself in terms of revenge for Joel like she only defined herself as the cure in Part 1, this time it was her choice vs. Joel making the choice for her in Part 1
But with the required work and reframing the change they made also works even though I think Neil should have stuck to his dark theme staying true to the dark nature of TLOU series.
Ellie was copping pleas in the theater. She looked like a bytch. She may have been satisfied but as a player I wouldn't have. It's like if Troy was a video game and we had to play as Paris.
 

Dorian Breh

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That shyt pissed me off :hhh:
I think Neil trolled us :hhh:
Her combat arrow is TRASH compared to Ellie's I never use it I've died so many times trying to use that piece of shyt :hhh:
At least Abby's sections were GOAT, no matter how the player feels about her :yeshrug:

naw that thing with the scope was :wow: against humans
I don't know what the homie @Deep_Black_Conscious is talkin about, that crossbow Abbey finds on the ghost ship is GOATED. Much more accurate than Ellie's, one shot one kill from any distance, the arrows fly straight and don't drop with gravity at all. The only way Ellie's might be better is because of explosive arrows. Btw, did you guys turn on the gameplay modifiers for your second playthrough? Game is AMAZING with unlimited ammo and melee and crafting :wow:
 
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I don't know what the homie @Deep_Black_Conscious is talkin about, that crossbow Abbey finds on the ghost ship is GOATED. Much more accurate than Ellie's, one shot one kill from any distance, the arrows fly straight and don't drop with gravity at all. The only way Ellie's might be better is because of explosive arrows. Btw, did you guys turn on the gameplay modifiers for your second playthrough? Game is AMAZING with unlimited ammo and melee and crafting :wow:
fukk that arrow :pachaha:
 

Soymuscle Mike

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The rattlers/fat gerald was a huge missed opportunity in terms of
further humanizing Abby even if you hate her to make Neil's original dark ending more impactful where you still feel some type of way even if you hate her and finding a clever way of letting Abby live
Imagine Ellie and Abby being enslaved together, stuck in the same prison?
Or like you mentioned showing Abby's suffering where even if you hate her you have to feel some type of empathy as a human being even for your enemies because of slavery
A lot of ways they could have went

Agree plus it would've given some life to the gameplay. When we got to the final stretch of the game, which I still love, I was kind of done with it all but this would've been a dope change.
 
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Ellie was copping pleas in the theater. She looked like a bytch. She may have been satisfied but as a player I wouldn't have. It's like if Troy was a video game and we had to play as Paris.
that's what I like about the story even your favorites can get fukked up, but of course in life we don't brag about the L's like Abby beating the living shyt out of us we would just tell our children and friends we got it in :duck:
I think that would be an interesting twist, the player is not satisfied and whatever satisfaction Ellie feels is ambiguous and might not seem worth it from the player's perspective. This is at least one of the effects I think Neil was going for with his original dark ending. I think Neil wanted us to experience revenge down to the nitty gritty details. The process of revenge on the realest level in terms of a video game without actually going out there and hurting people
Imagine a player starting off with the game with complete hatred towards Abby, only to do the deed, and feel what at the end? Would have been an interesting transformation as you are getting revenge from beginning to end.
 
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Agree plus it would've given some life to the gameplay. When we got to the final stretch of the game, which I still love, I was kind of done with it all but this would've been a dope change.
I think they might save that for Part 3 actually maybe that's why they didn't go with that angle when they could have
Ellie's immunity getting exposed seems like the next logical step in terms of consequence for a Part 3 where else would they go?
The rattlers and the idea of a slave, the final stage of removing humanity from others, were introduced because I believe these will be major themes in Part 3, especially towards immune people
I wouldn't be surprised if one arc of the story is Ellie getting kidnapped, smuggled, and ending up in another part of North or South America, or another part of the world like Europe they keep teasing
Her enslavement/imprisonment and her escape, along with the long time jump this will cause, will be parts of the major story in Part 3 I predict
 

Gizmo_Duck

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Beat this masterpiece today

All I gotta say is Ellie a fukkin monster :wow:

It's Ellie all day now, sonys best mascot :blessed:


Ellie >>>> Lara croft, Samus, master chief, solid snake

She taking out all yall :bustback::bustback:

It's the trespasser!! :damn:

5d820bb06a2943ff3b7076e8fe5d157225902ef4.gif
 

Hostile

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Beat this masterpiece today

All I gotta say is Ellie a fukkin monster :wow:

It's Ellie all day now, sonys best mascot :blessed:


Ellie >>>> Lara croft, Samus, master chief, solid snake

She taking out all yall :bustback::bustback:

It's the trespasser!! :damn:

Not sure what game you played because in mine she had a hard time with a :flabbynsick: Abby in the final fight and left without fingers.
 
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