The irony of all this is that Triple Haitch is actually a B+ player

[Silkk]

The Undertaker streak has been the biggest draw for WM about 4 times out of the last 6 years. That's huge.

These dudes tripping

 

[Pinyapplesuckas]

How is Edge considered that high up? Dude had a handful of good-great main event matches and a midcard run..... Thats it! Dont count that # of world titles held shyt

i HATE Edge...but i cant deny how much fans fukked with him...same with Jeff Hardy...i may detest them and think they are trash but they fans sure as hell seemed to like them and what they did. that has to count for something. i'd agree with Edge as a B to B+. Def not the GUY, but he could share a spotlight with one.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

Are you on crack bro? Lmao. seriously. I've never seen someone who has no idea what they're talking about be so vocal. No offense, but anyone who follows the business of wrestling would laugh uproariously at the notion Warrior was even in the same ballpark as Savage as a draw. Vince would laugh at you.

Warrior as champion did very poor business for the time. Very poor. His first 2 months house show attendance was solid, then it went down the drain. He was considered a bust within 5 months of his reign.

Savage reign as WWE champion was wildly successful. His house show attendance was right there with Hogans, just slightly below, depending on the market they were in. And back then attendance was the biggest factor, because that's where a lot of their money came from. Savage reign was so successful they actually considered Savage beating Hogan at WM 5 because they thought they could continue the feud for another year because it was the best business WWE ever did at that time.

Since you came at me talking so sideways with that disrespectful ass tone, I took the liberty of actually taking the time out of my day and introducing some COLD HARD FACTS into this discussion. I went back on the history of WWE website and looked at live attendance figures for the shows Savage headlined during his 89-90 run, versus shows Warrior headlined during his 89-90 run. These are only shows that DID NOT INCLUDE HULK HOGAN on the card.

Spoiler

WINNPIEG:

SAVAGE:

WWF @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - Arena - January 21, 1988 (2,500)
WWF @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - Arena - May 12, 1988 (4,000)
WWF @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - Arena - February 27, 1989 (4,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - Arena - August 17, 1990 (4,000)

Advantage: Randy Savage


SPRINGFIELD, MA
SAVAGE:
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - April 22, 1988 (9,000)**
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - August 5, 1988 (2,700)
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - November 6, 1988 (3,100)
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - December 4, 1988 (2,700)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - March 17, 1990 (matinee) (4,800)
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - August 7, 1990 (300 shy of a sell out)**
WWF @ Springfield, MA - Civic Center - December 26, 1990 (matinee) (4,200)

Advantage: Warrior

PROVIDENCE, RI

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - April 23, 1988 (6,700)
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - May 28, 1988 (5,400)
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - August 23, 1988 (13,800; sell out)**
King of the Ring 88 - Providence, RI - Civic Center - October 16, 1988 (6,700)
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - December 2, 1988 (5,000)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - April 21, 1990 (4,700)
WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - November 21, 1990 (4,500)

Advantage: Savage

LANDOVER, MD

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - April 24, 1988 (4,500)
WWF @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - July 16, 1988 (9,000)
WWF @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - October 15, 1988 (2,800)
WWF @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - November 20, 1988 (2,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - September 14, 1990 (6,500)

Advantage: Savage

MADISON SQUARE GARDEN

SAVAGE:
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 25, 1988 (17,000)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 27, 1988 (16,000)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 25, 1988 (18,300)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 29, 1988 (13,500)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 24, 1988 (12,500)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 30, 1988 (16,000)**

WARRIOR:
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 30, 1989 (20,000; sell out)
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 28, 1989 (16,000)**
WWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 21, 1990 (11,000+)

Advantage: Warrior


LOS ANGELES, CA

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - May 1, 1988 (13,000)
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - June 4, 1988 (10,000)
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - September 17, 1988 (12,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - January 26, 1990 (12,000)
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - July 27, 1990 (11,700)
WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Sports Arena - March 25, 1990 (matinee) (11,000)

Advantage: Savage barely


OMAHA, NE

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Omaha, NE - Civic Auditorium - May 13, 1988 (7,280)
WWF @ Omaha, NE - Civic Auditorium - October 2, 1988 (8,484)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Omaha, NE - Civic Auditorium - February 27, 1990 (5,998)
WWF @ Omaha, NE - Civic Auditorium - July 16, 1990 (10,303; sell out)**
WWF @ Omaha, NE - Civic Auditorium - October 6, 1990 (4,500)

Advantage: Warrior

CHICAGO

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - May 15, 1988 (8,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - June 23, 1990 (7,100)
WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - September 16, 1990 (6,400)
WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - December 29, 1990 (10,600)

Advantage: Warrior


ST. LOUIS

SAVAGE:
WWF @ St. Louis, MO - Kiel Auditorium - May 20, 1988 (3,700)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - June 22, 1990 (4,700)
WWF @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - October 5, 1990 (5,000)

Advantage: Warrior

DENVER

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Denver, CO - Auditorium - May 22, 1988 (8,500)
WWF @ Denver, CO - Auditorium - September 30, 1988 (6,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Denver, CO - Coliseum - June 28, 1990 (6,400)
WWF @ Denver, CO - Coliseum - September 1, 1990 (5,800)

Advantage: Savage


FRESNO

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Fresno, CA - Convention Center - May 31, 1988 (7,000)**

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Fresno, CA - Selland Arena - July 18, 1990 (4,500)

Advantage: Savage


OAKLAND

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Oakland, CA - Coliseum - June 1, 1988 (12,120; 9,000 paid)**
WWF @ Oakland, CA - Coliseum - August 12, 1988 (10,500 paid)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Oakland, CA - Coliseum - July 28, 1990 (12,000)

Advantage: Savage

TACOMA

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Tacoma, WA - Tacoma Dome - June 3, 1988 (11,000)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Tacoma, WA - Tacoma Dome - July 9, 1990 (4,000)

Advantage: Savage


PITTSBURGH

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - June 10, 1988 (4,734)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - June 9, 1990 (about 11,000 paid)
Advantage: Warrior

UTICA, NY

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Utica, NY - Memorial Auditorium - June 23, 1988 (3,453)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Utica, NY - Memorial Auditorium - August 15, 1990 (5,000; sell out)**

Advantage: Warrior


Richmond, VA

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - June 24, 1988 (7,000)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - June 29, 1990 (4,600)

Advantage: Savage

TOLEDO

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Toledo, OH - Sports Arena - July 7, 1988 (3,500)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Toledo, OH - Sports Arena - June 10, 1990 (4,500)

Advantage: Warrior

BOSTON

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - October 10, 1988 (5,000)**
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - November 5, 1988 (6,500)**
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - July 9, 1988 (5,000)**
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - August 6, 1988 (8,000)**

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - January 13, 1990 (announced at 9,200)
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - March 17, 1990 (7,500)
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - June 2, 1990 (6,000)
WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - September 15, 1990 (6,000)

Advantage: Warrior


PHILADELPHIA

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - July 23, 1988 (9,115)**
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - August 27, 1988 (4,418)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - September 24, 1988 (3,952)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - December 17, 1988 (matinee) (5,723)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - January 14, 1989 (matinee) (6,018)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - January 20, 1990 (matinee) (8,216)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - April 28, 1990 (6,549)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - October 20, 1990 (5,500)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - November 17, 1990 (9,400)
WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - December 15, 1990 (6,012)

Advantage: Warrior

HARTFORD

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Hartford, CT - Civic Center - August 24, 1988 (16,000; sell out)**
WWF @ Hartford, CT - Civic Center - December 31, 1988 (6,700)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Hartford, CT - Civic Center - May 17, 1990 (6,000)

Advantage: Savage


ROCHESTER

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Rochester, NY - War Memorial - November 27, 1988 (4,000)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Rochester, NY - War Memorial Auditorium - June 5, 1990 (8,000)

Advantage: Warrior


SAVAGE:
WWF @ Utica, NY - February 12, 1989 (5,000; sell out)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Utica, NY - Memorial Auditorium - August 15, 1990 (5,000; sell out)
NEW MEXICO

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Albuquerque, NM - March 6, 1989 (3,602)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Albuquerque, NM - May 25, 1990 (5,435; 4,700 paid)

Advantage: Warrior
SACRAMENTO

SAVAGE:
WWF @ Sacramento, CA - Arco Arena - March 9, 1989 (5,000)

WARRIOR:
WWF @ Sacramento, CA - Arco Arena - July 19, 1990 (6,600)
WWF @ Sacramento, CA - Arco Arena - November 11, 1990 (7,450; 5,700 paid)

Advantage: Warrior

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

@FreshAIG

Now you tell me who was the bigger draw? Warrior outdrew Savage in NY, Boston, Philly and many other cities. Savage outdrew him in some too.

They were both very equal, thats why I have them both A-...but Warrior was HUGE in 89-90. And he headlined a lot of shows during 89 and drew great houses (which I didn't include here cause it would take too much time) that Savage and Hogan weren't on, which is why Vince decided to put him over Hogan at WM 6 in the first place.

ONE KEY THING TO REMEMBER - almost every show listed here for Savage, included the Ultimate Warrior on the undercard. He was beginning to be a big attraction at this point. For Warrior -- his undercard was WEAK, and he was not paired with any main event talent for feuds. And he still drew big numbers.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

Huh? Bret and Shawn clearly carried the company from 1994-1997. Numbers were down then, and they would have been lower if not for Bret, Shawn, and possibly Razor.

hmm.. that's one way to look at it. the other way to look at it is, maybe the numbers were down because people didn't view Bret and Shawn as actual Superstars

 

[FreshAIG]

@FreshAIG

Now you tell me who was the bigger draw? Warrior outdrew Savage in NY, Boston, Philly and many other cities. Savage outdrew him in some too.

They were both very equal, thats why I have them both A-...but Warrior was HUGE in 89-90. And he headlined a lot of shows during 89 and drew great houses (which I didn't include here cause it would take too much time) that Savage and Hogan weren't on, which is why Vince decided to put him over Hogan at WM 6 in the first place.

ONE KEY THING TO REMEMBER - almost every show listed here for Savage, included the Ultimate Warrior on the undercard. He was beginning to be a big attraction at this point. For Warrior -- his undercard was WEAK, and he was not paired with any main event talent for feuds. And he still drew big numbers.

LMAO what? Did you see the numbers you put up. You're giving Warrior wins in places Savage clearly had the advantage in. Plus you're completely ignoring PPV buyrates. These are merely house show attendance figures and Savage is winning in nearly every single market. You just proved my point.

For example, you gave Warrior the advantage over Savage in Oakland, even though Savage first show had a higher attendance than Warrior. But are penalizing him for having 9,000 in a second show, when Warrior didn't have a second show in that market. What are you even comparing at that point? .

 

[The Electric Lady]

hmm.. that's one way to look at it. the other way to look at it is, maybe the numbers were down because people didn't view Bret and Shawn as actual Superstars

And yet, Bret is the person who jump started Austin's rise to company babyface with the double turn classic WM13 match and from the ppv numbers thread we know that HBK is a guaranteed draw.

 

[FreshAIG]

nikka is really trying to convince himself that Warrior was a bigger draw than Randy fukking Savage. I'm over here like

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

LMAO what? Did you see the numbers you put up. You're giving Warrior wins in places Savage clearly had the advantage in. Plus you're completely ignoring PPV buyrates. These are merely house show attendance figures and Savage is winning in nearly every single market. You just proved my point.

For example, you gave Warrior the advantage over Savage in Oakland, even though Savage first show had a higher attendance than Warrior. But are penalizing him for having 9,000 in a second show, when Warrior didn't have a second show in that market. What are you even comparing at that point? .

You are right, Oakland should go to Savage. I just fixed that one.

What other cities did I get wrong? Please explain. I just looked through and I don't see anymore errors. What other city should Savage have the advantage in, friend? How do you say Savage is winning in "Every single one" when he's winning 10 of them and Warrior is winning 13, including the big east coast cities like Boston, Philly and NY that were WWE's home base at that time period.

And what PPV buyrates? Did either one of them even headline any PPV's that didn't involve Hulk Hogan? There's not enough data there worth comparing.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

nikka is really trying to convince himself that Warrior was a bigger draw than Randy fukking Savage. I'm over here like

well if you don't want to deal with numbers and reality, I can understand your confusion. You just wanna pop shyt with no factual basis behind it. The numbers show that Warrior was an equal or bigger draw at his peak.

 

[FreshAIG]

You are right, Oakland should go to Savage. I just fixed that one.

What other cities did I get wrong? Please explain. I just looked through and I don't see anymore errors. What other city should Savage have the advantage in, friend? How do you say Savage is winning in "Every single one" when he's winning 10 of them and Warrior is winning 13, including the big east coast cities like Boston, Philly and NY that were WWE's home base at that time period.

And what PPV buyrates? Did either one of them even headline any PPV's that didn't involve Hulk Hogan? There's not enough data there worth comparing.

Taking Hogan out isn't a fair judgment. That's like taking out Austin and The Rock from each other and saying it doesn't count because they mainevented with the other for the event breh.

It's not fair to penalize someone for drawing well with someone.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

And yet, Bret is the person who jump started Austin's rise to company babyface with the double turn classic WM13 match and from the ppv numbers thread we know that HBK is a guaranteed draw.

that doesn't make Bret a major draw. He's not a bum, he's an A-. He's just not A+.

HBK a GUARANTEED draw? Please explain that one

 

[FreshAIG]

well if you don't want to deal with numbers and reality, I can understand your confusion. You just wanna pop shyt with no factual basis behind it. The numbers show that Warrior was an equal or bigger draw at his peak.

Actually, it's the exact opposite. But okay bro.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

Taking Hogan out isn't a fair judgment. That's like taking out Austin and The Rock from each other and saying it doesn't count because they mainevented with the other for the event breh.

It's not fair to penalize someone for drawing well with someone.

OK, what PPV's do you wanna compare?

How about Ultimate Warrior main eventing Summerslam 1990, which drew a bigger buyrate than Randy Savage winning the title at Wrestlemania IV, The Mega Powers teaming up at Summerslam 88, or Savage main eventing with Ric Flair at Wrestlemania 8?

Perhaps we should look at Warrior and Hogan's team headlining Survivor Series 90 and drawing a bigger buyrate than Savage and Hogan's team main eventing Survivor Series 88 did?

Basically the only PPV advantage I can see that Savage has over Warrior is Wrestlemania V, which is well deserving because that is one of the greatest storylines in wrestling history. But lets not act like Savage was some major PPV draw and Warrior wasnt. Once again, the numbers just dont back that up.

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

Actually, it's the exact opposite. But okay bro.

Is it really?

OK, well let's see then -- so I fixed Oakland on my list. Go ahead and tell me which other cities there are wrong. Which ones did Savage draw more people to? I'll wait