The idea of Masculinity: is it harmful or helpful to today's black male youth?

[Matt504]

I feel u but we as people especially folks who are intelligent and well versed should be able to articulate what they are thinking. But again there is a lot of gray area with discussion subjects like this. Even tho generally men want feminine women and women want very masculine men....I seen very butch and aggressive women pull men and effeminate males like Prince pull tons of women. So all y'all who saying a man has to be so strong, masculine and able to fight to get a woman aren't exactly correct.

A conversation about masculinity isn't a conversation if we can't even explain what masculinity means, if we were asked to define what a gay man is, it'd be very simple for most people here and the answers would be pretty consistent, such is not the case with the word "masculinity" and the reason is, "masculinity" doesn't really exist.

 

[Weaver31]

why should the system "favor" men and not the rest of society(women)? Why is it that a women must "need" a man? why does the idea of an women who can support herself a threat to you?

I'm just saying....if society expects men to be the sole provider for his woman and family...then the playing ground should somewhat reflect society's expectations of a man. My ex fiance later told me that men should be a sole provider and she quit her job after I bought a home and she agreed to give me 25% of total expenses and I pay 75%. Society expects a lot out of men but with women working so much and being so successful...she may feel like she shouldn't fulfill her gender roles since she making bread. I just think its unfair how men are still expected to pay for everything but society is set up to help women more.

I never said a woman must "need" a man. I said society is set up where women don't need a man except to reproduce...and there are options like sperm bank so in actuality she doesn't. They kids need a father (and a mother) but a single parent can successfully raise a child. I seen it.

I don't feel a self supporting woman is a threat but I feel her possible mentality and attitude could hurt her man's ego and emasculate or downgrade him. She could be like those types of females who lack respect for a man if she making more or even just as much as him. Also, it can harm the black family where if a woman is so successful...she may have a hard time finding a man who can match her or make more than her. Plus if she becomes so successful...she may start to put men down and feel she too good for them.

 

[Gravity]

People are opportunists and say whatever that will get them what they want. The strong independent black woman thing is a stereotype.

Are you denying that many black woman have bought into what is called the "strong black independent woman" mentality?

The gay agenda is just gay people investing in themselves instead of hiding themselves. Gay people not hiding under rocks and damning themselves isnt an agenda. I get that people aren't used to homosexuality being on front street like that, but the times are changing and no person can stop that. People who were born gay being gay out in the open isn't going to make someone who was born straight, less straight. You're just shifting the blame onto gays because it doesn't require any practical thought.

I haven't shifted the blame on anyone, I've simply asked questions. You're arguing with and contradicting yourself. You've ready admitted that society is influencing people to be more fluid regarding gender roles/identities and whatnot

It's a very fluid moment in time when it comes to gender roles, so no matter how strict the oldheads and parents in the community are, they can't stop the influences of the whole society.

Yet here you are contradicting that by denying that there's an agenda to influence people to accept homosexuality. There's certainly an agenda in place to influence people to accept homosexuality and transgenderism. The agenda goes a lot further than just gays and trannies being open about their alternative lifestyles. The agenda is promoting homosexuality and transgenderism while censuring/attacking anyone who dares to express disagreement with those lifestyles. You can't even speak out against the lbgt lifestyles without being attacked and punished. People are losing their jobs for expressing disagreement with lbgt. An ex athlete was just fired from ESPN for expressing support for the NC law disallowing men to enter spaces reserved for women. You're being quite dishonest in trying to downplay the gay agenda as just being about gays being openly gay. Again, the gay agenda is about promoting homosexuality, silencing those who disagree and normalizing the lifestyle.

I'm not trying to bullshyt my way around your questions, your questions are loaded and I don't agree with their premise. You're asking me if black parents teaching their boys to wear skirts will make them wear skirts, when first

Well the first thing you need to do is check your emotions because they seem to be preventing you from reading/comprehending clearly. That's not what I asked you. I asked you if young boys would think that it's cool to wear girl's clothes if they were raised by parents who taught them that it's ok for boys to wear girl's clothes? The point is that of course males are going to be more likely to effeminize themselves if they're influenced to think that there's nothing wrong with males being effeminized and they see effeminized men being promoted/celebrated. It's common sense.

You're implying that if a parent isn't drilling male children with masculinity training, they're drilling them with femininity training. That doesn't make sense.

Theres no need to do this "so you're saying........" bullshyt. I'm not implying anything, I'm speaking clearly and very direct. Again, I'm saying that it's common sense for people to be more fluid regarding gender roles and sexuality because we live in a society that is pushing agendas to promote homosexuality or sexual fluidity and the blurring of gender lines. If a parent isn't installing traditional values in their kid(s) then they are vulnerable to be influenced by the agendas that our society is pushing.

A lack of masculinity isn't filled in with femininity. Parent's should do what they want, but those who act like their sons are going to turn into queens if their fathers aren't punching them in the chest and making them mow the lawn with tweezers are very strange in my opinion. Your son is male at the end of the day, and there's a limit to how much help they need from their parents to understand that lol. They don't wake up and forget that they are male.[/QUOTE]Here you are arguing with yourself again I don't argue that males are forgetting that they're males. I argue that we live in a society that is influencing people to think that the only differences between males and females are socially constructed and that the rejection of traditional gender roles and sexual orientation is being promoted.

edit; for example, there was a white boy born with a genital deformity and the doctor who was interested in nature vs nurture for transexuals decided to clip him and making him live out life as a female for his research. His parents tried to raise him like a girl 100%, and he was so miserable that he commited suicide. Your parents control what you wear but they can't control what you think. Your nature. So no, I don't think parents can make children enjoy gender bending.

I never argued that parents can make their children enjoy anything. You're going on and on and you don't even have a true understanding of what I'm saying. You're too emotional, set on pushing your agenda.

I'm not saying that parents are forcing their children to be gender-benders. I'm saying that we live in a society that teaches kids that is ok to be gender-benders. I argue that we live in a society that now promotes and celebrates gender-benders. I argue that this push to promote and accept gender benders as "normal" can influence people to be gender benders.

It'd be nice if you could actually address what I'm saying instead of creating your own straw man to argue against.

 

[( ິΦᆺΦ)ິ°˚(✿ *҉ manko｡✧)]

Are you denying that many black woman have bought into what is called the "strong black independent woman" mentality?

No, black women work and live their lives like any other responsible adults. Anything else is you buying into false narratives.

I haven't shifted the blame on anyone, I've simply asked questions. You're arguing with and contradicting yourself. You've ready admitted that society is influencing people to be more fluid regarding gender roles/identities and whatnotYet here you are contradicting that by denying that there's an agenda to influence people to accept homosexuality. There's certainly an agenda in place to influence people to accept homosexuality and transgenderism. The agenda goes a lot further than just gays and trannies being open about their alternative lifestyles. The agenda is promoting homosexuality and transgenderism while censuring/attacking anyone who dares to express disagreement with those lifestyles. You can't even speak out against the lbgt lifestyles without being attacked and punished. People are losing their jobs for expressing disagreement with lbgt. An ex athlete was just fired from ESPN for expressing support for the NC law disallowing men to enter spaces reserved for women. You're being quite dishonest in trying to downplay the gay agenda as just being about gays being openly gay. Again, the gay agenda is about promoting homosexuality, silencing those who disagree and normalizing the lifestyle.
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There is a movement for people who are gay to feel free to live out in the open. What does that have to do with normal heterosexual people?

Well the first thing you need to do is check your emotions because they seem to be preventing you from reading/comprehending clearly. That's not what I asked you. I asked you if young boys would think that it's cool to wear girl's clothes if they were raised by parents who taught them that it's ok for boys to wear girl's clothes? The point is that of course males are going to be more likely to effeminize themselves if they're influenced to think that there's nothing wrong with males being effeminized and they see effeminized men being promoted/celebrated. It's common sense.

Check your tone nikka. I said no because unless that kid like wearing girls clothes themselves, their weirdo parents forcing them to wear womens clothes would make them embarrassed and ashamed. Except in your mind where only an item of clothing is separating regular boys who like booty and titties and being a full blown prancing queen.

Theres no need to do this "so you're saying........" bullshyt. I'm not implying anything, I'm speaking clearly and very direct. Again, I'm saying that it's common sense for people to be more fluid regarding gender roles and sexuality because we live in a society that is pushing agendas to promote homosexuality or sexual fluidity and the blurring of gender lines. If a parent isn't installing traditional values in their kid(s) then they are vulnerable to be influenced by the agendas that our society is pushing.

You make no sense, so I'm trying to decipher what you're saying. A parent just needs to buy their kids appropriate clothing, teach them how to be a good person with integrity and keep it moving. Your obsession with the sexual climate of the world is your problem, not theirs. This is what you don't get. If your kid is into tha gender fluid life, then that's what they like. And if they think it's a confusing crock of shyt, they will reject it, like anyone else.

Here you are arguing with yourself again I don't argue that males are forgetting that they're males. I argue that we live in a society that is influencing people to think that the only differences between males and females are socially constructed and that the rejection of traditional gender roles and sexual orientation is being promoted.

People have agency, why don't you understand that? Why aren't you a feminine man? Is it because your parents brainwashed you, or is it because you're an individual and being masculine suits you best?

I never argued that parents can make their children enjoy anything. You're going on and on and you don't even have a true understanding of what I'm saying. You're too emotional, set on pushing your agenda.

I'm not saying that parents are forcing their children to be gender-benders. I'm saying that we live in a society that teaches kids that is ok to be gender-benders. I argue that we live in a society that now promotes and celebrates gender-benders. I argue that this push to promote and accept gender benders as "normal" can influence people to be gender benders.

It'd be nice if you could actually address what I'm saying instead of creating your own straw man to argue against.

That's just your insecure emotional response to a lifestyle you don't agree with not being publicly shamed or demonized anymore. The "agenda", again, like I said, is gay people pushing for people who are gay to feel okay with being gay. They don't care about you, your life, your opinions, your family, straight people or anyone unless they are doing something to make gay people feel bad about themselves. You can't talk about strawmen when you're doing that "big gay boogeyman" bit. Gay people have nothing to do with this. You can just pull homos out your ass to make an argument about teaching masculinity for normal, non-homosexual boys. If you're gonna keep talking that homo shyt, don't quote me again.[/quote]

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

You learn it from you father or another male equivalent. Unfortunately some of us have learn from peers who also didn't have a positive male figure to raise them. IMO, it leads to a false "hyper" masculinity where it's almost a caricature of it's self

 

[Matt504]

You learn it from you father or another male equivalent. Unfortunately some of us have learn from peers who also didn't have a positive male figure to raise them. IMO, it leads to a false "hyper" masculinity where it's almost a caricature of it's self

What is masculinity in your opinion?

 

[Gravity]

No

More dishonesty. The biggest black female entertainer on earth(Beyoncé) has made a career out of promoting the strong independent black woman mentality. Not only has she made hits promoting the strong black woman mentality(independent women, bills, survivor, ect), others have too. Ne-yo had a hit shouting out all of the "strong independent" black women. Boosie and Webbie even had a hit song shouting all of the "strong independent" black women. Rihanna's career now is basically all about being a "boss bytch". The strong independent black woman has become a stereotype because black women have promoted and celebrated that image for so long. Sure now some realize that it's problematic but to deny that many black women have adopted that mentality is a lie.

​

There is a movement for people who are gay to feel free to live out in the open. What does that have to do with normal heterosexual people?

Did you not read the part where I discussed how there's an agenda to promote and make people accept homosexuality? Did you not read where I talked about how anyone who dares to publicly express disagreement with lbgt is censured/attacked? Did you not see the example that I cited where a guy was fired from ESPN for simply supporting a law that says men can't enter women's spaces?Seems as if you're having a hard time reading and comprehending simple English.

Check your tone nikka.

Motherfukk you fakkit.

I said no because unless that kid like wearing girls clothes themselves, their weirdo parents forcing them to wear womens clothes would make them embarrassed and ashamed. Except in your mind where only an item of clothing is separating regular boys who like booty and titties and being a full blown prancing queen.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. You're not addressing my points you're just babbling incoherently. Stop trying to speak for me or what's in my mind. You're nowhere near smart enough to speak for me or what I think. Just try to deal with what I'm saying directly.

I didn't say anything about parents forcing their kids to wear certain types of clothing. I made the point that kids are more likely to try things that they're taught are ok to try. Why would a boy be embarrassed or ashamed to wear girl's clothes if he's been taught that there's nothing embarrassing or shameful about a boy wearing girl's clothes? Example:

Now that little boy has clearly been raised to think that there's nothing wrong with him dressing like a little girl. I don't think that his mom/dad forces him to dress that way but their refusal to teach him that it's not appropriate for him to dress that way has led to him thinking that it's ok. That's my point.

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You make no sense, so I'm trying to decipher what you're saying.

No, you're trying to word what I'm saying in a way that you can discredit it. I'm speaking in plain simple English, I'm not speaking in some cryptic other language. There's nothing to decipher.

I'm saying that it's common sense for people to be more fluid regarding gender roles and sexuality because we live in a society that is pushing agendas to promote homosexuality or sexual fluidity and the blurring of gender lines. If a parent isn't installing traditional values in their kid(s) then they are vulnerable to be influenced by the agendas that our society is pushing.

Now what part of that don't you understand? Save all that other dumb shyt and just explain which part you don't agree with.

​

People have agency, why don't you understand that? Why aren't you a feminine man? Is it because your parents brainwashed you, or is it because you're an individual and being masculine suits you best?

Where did I say that I didn't understand that people have agency?

I'm not a feminine man because I was raised by parents and others who taught me that femininity isn't a trait that males/men are supposed to be posses. Now if I were raised by parents like those of the little boy in the pic that I posted, I may have gown up as a princess-boy like him. I thank goodness that I wasn't raised by parents who think that it's ok for little boys to be princesses.

​

That's just your insecure emotional response to a lifestyle you don't agree with not being publicly shamed or demonized anymore.

Says the suspectedly closeted homo who's passive aggressively defending the gay agenda.

The "agenda", again, like I said, is gay people pushing for people who are gay to feel okay with being gay. They don't care about you, your life, your opinions, your family, straight people or anyone unless they are doing something to make gay people feel bad about themselves. You can't talk about strawmen when you're doing that "big gay boogeyman" bit. Gay people have nothing to do with this. You can just pull homos out your ass to make an argument about teaching masculinity for normal, non-homosexual boys. If you're gonna keep talking that homo shyt, don't quote me again.

[/QUOTE]Its all related tho genius. How can you talk about boys being effeminized, wearing heels, skirts, and other women's clothes without talking about homosexuality and the homosexual agenda to normalize it? You can't. I haven't said anything about some big bad gay boogeyman. I'm just talking about the undeniable agenda to promote and normalize the lbgt lifestyles. It goes way beyond making those who are lgbt ok with bein lgbt. The lgbt'ers certainly care about other people's opinions and thoughts which is why they police people's opinions/thoughts so heavily. They're quick to pounce on anybody who dares express disagreement. There are no rights that protect you against someone saying something that makes you feel bad. I get it tho. The gays and their supporters and just like white supremacists and they realize that the best way to protect an agenda is to deny that it exists. A white racist will never admit that there's a system of white supremacy even faced with irrefutable proof. They just deny, deny, and deny. That's exactly what gays and their supporters like you do. You'll never get one of you fakkits to admit that there's an agenda to promote this shyt even when faced with irrefutable proof. That's why I can't respect it.

 

[True Blue Moon]

Since we keep asking about the definition of masculinity, does anyone have a definition for femininity? Seems like more of an instinctual, gut thing. Like what's love? What's success? We know it when we feel it, but it's all perspective.

 

[Spatial Paradox]

A conversation about masculinity isn't a conversation if we can't even explain what masculinity means, if we were asked to define what a gay man is, it'd be very simple for most people here and the answers would be pretty consistent, such is not the case with the word "masculinity" and the reason is, "masculinity" doesn't really exist.

Do you have the same opinion on "femininity"?