The disconnect between Nuggets GM Calvin Booth and HC Michael Malone cost Denver’s back to back championship run

[Blackrogue]

I'm just here to comment on Calvin Booth being the GM of the Denver nuggets


Who remembers him in the NBA? I don't even remember what teams he played for but

He at one point was a wizard and he and gilbert arenas used to discuss all the time how they'd build teams and what they thought about specific players. So he was always analyzing stuff on that angle even as a player

 

[Flex Grossman]

My point is you can’t build a team of role players in the draft by drafting guys you intend to be role players. You already capped the talent you are looking for doing that.

Malone is also very culpable, but first and second year guys are rarely reliable as make or break players. Even less so when they aren’t high end talent.

Disagree. There’s guys in every class that are clearly role players at best. They don’t usually go in the lottery because those teams are hoping for more, and when they go late, they know what’s up with what’s going to keep them in the league.

If all you’re looking for is guys to fill the roster out while you contend, it’s better to get those guys that are going to buy in to that role right away than a guy that’s gonna be bad for 3 years until he comes to the realization that he’s not gonna be that guy in the league and then adjust his game to be a role player.

 

[mastermind]

Disagree. There’s guys in every class that are clearly role players at best.

You misunderstood my point.

Of course there are. Most of the draft is role players at best. Those aren’t players contending teams rely on to help them win a title as rookies.

 

[We Ready]

The young bench hurt but Murray was banged up and they took a team specifically designed to beat them to the limit. Way too many dramatic takes about the roster all of a sudden, drop Bruce Brown back on this year's squad and they still might lose in 7 or less.

@ it being spun as a positive that the heavily favored defending champs were able to last 7 games with Minnesota

 

[Flex Grossman]

You misunderstood my point.

Of course there are. Most of the draft is role players at best. Those aren’t players contending teams rely on to help them win a title as rookies.

It’s a rarity, but it just happened last year with Christian Braun. And it’s also a rarity that a vet minimum guy that’s willing to come to Denver will be a guy you can rely on. Neither are good options, but those are the options.

 

[mastermind]

It’s a rarity, but it just happened last year with Christian Braun.

Yes, it’s a rarity. Just like finding a three-time MVP in the second round is a rarity. You shouldn’t base your strategy around a rarity—and Braun played 13 minutes a game last postseason.

 

[tremonthustler1]

Yes, it’s a rarity. Just like finding a three-time MVP in the second round is a rarity. You shouldn’t base your strategy around a rarity—and Braun played 13 minutes a game last postseason.

bench players for the most part tend to.

Denver had vets on the bench. Malone just lost all faith in them by the end.

It's also really tough to have a revolving door of vets on minimums year in year out. That's tough to sustain compared to drafting and developing even though realistically you might get one good year out of that player too.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Btw with the league being so unbelievably skilled the Nugs couldn't find a guy to hit an open 3?

MPJ bum ass was supposed to be that guy...but

 

[threattonature]

The strange thing about the CBA is I am not sure why teams are agreeing to make things so onerous on themselves....

Like who is telling them to put the gun in their own mouths?

Only one team wins the title every year. For the other owners it makes sense to not make it easy to build a dominant team.

 

[threattonature]

Disagree. There’s guys in every class that are clearly role players at best. They don’t usually go in the lottery because those teams are hoping for more, and when they go late, they know what’s up with what’s going to keep them in the league.

If all you’re looking for is guys to fill the roster out while you contend, it’s better to get those guys that are going to buy in to that role right away than a guy that’s gonna be bad for 3 years until he comes to the realization that he’s not gonna be that guy in the league and then adjust his game to be a role player.

I'm with @mastermind on this one. Eventually you need more dynamic players around the expensive core. Not going to get that in free agency having such an expensive core. Best way to find them is by hoping to hit on an upside guy and having him on a cheap rookie contract for multiple years. My only targeting role players it puts too much pressure on the core to carry everything.

 

[mastermind]

I'm with @mastermind on this one. Eventually you need more dynamic players around the expensive core. Not going to get that in free agency having such an expensive core. Best way to find them is by hoping to hit on an upside guy and having him on a cheap rookie contract for multiple years. My only targeting role players it puts too much pressure on the core to carry everything.

exactly

I am not saying the concept of using the draft to fill your team out is bad, but you better target high talent guys over role players if you are going to do that. These guys have to challenge the starters for minutes, not be another guy.

 

[FTBS]

You cant get cute when you have a chip caliber squad. Anything can happen. You might not even have 5 or 6 years. Matter fact in this day and age its unlikely. The cheatcode Warriors were only together for 3 years. The Heatles only lasted 4. If you got it you better do all you can to maximize it while you can. The difference between a championship squad and an also ran can be razor thin. Could Denver be the Duncan Spurs? Yeah. They could also be the Big 3 Cs, Goin to Work Pistons, Flabby Avengers and Flash Heat.

This all comes down to owners being cheap. People always focus on the players (which is by design). But these owners be on some bullshyt both individually and as a collective. Folks talk about all the money the players get...the owners are getting waaaaay more and they aint spending the summer training or playing through injury. Most would take a bigger profit over a chip or competing for one. Especially when yall just gonna flame the players when they lose.

 

[FTBS]

The strange thing about the CBA is I am not sure why teams are agreeing to make things so onerous on themselves....

Like who is telling them to put the gun in their own mouths?

Its actually the opposite. This makes it easier to bullshyt players and fans.

"We wanted to sign him but we wouldve gone over the 2nd apron. Nothing we could do "

No different from the cap or the max salary or the rookie wage scale or the luxury tax. Every CBA comes with a new measure of protection/excuse for them.

 

[Flex Grossman]

exactly

I am not saying the concept of using the draft to fill your team out is bad, but you better target high talent guys over role players if you are going to do that. These guys have to challenge the starters for minutes, not be another guy.

I mean Denver has targeted those types of guys as well in RJ Hampton, Bol Bol, bones and Watson. The problem with that is that they are going to be really raw and unable to contribute much of anything the first couple of years if they do have upside but last until the 20s.

And if they do get a chance and show some flashes, are they gonna be satisfied with sitting behind a starter that’s under contract for a few years, when they are trying to showcase what they can do for their second contract? Bones wasn’t. Bol wasn’t. And Peyton Watson may have called Malone a hoe and a bytch because he got cut out of the playoff rotation.

 

[FAH1223]