The Cavs Andrew Wiggins/Kevin Love Dilemma*Update* Deal is finalized

[Verbal Kint]

Highest usage rate doesn't necessarily translate to who the offense runs through. Kat is more versatile and talented off-the-ball while he's shown to be the most consistent offensive player on the squad.

KAT's versatility matters because he has to be accounted for every inch of the floor because he has range, great post moves, a mod-range, good passing ability, and the ability to create for himself. Not only that but KAT is constantly used as a screener because of his versatility and the sheer danger he presents opens up lanes for Wiggin's but KAT plays on slightly less minutes but shyts on him almost all advance offensive stats.

I mean, you brought up usage but you're gonna ignore the OWS that show KAT is easily the best offensive player?

Tell me where I argued that Wiggins is better than KAT. I'll wait. That's not the point of this thread or my point. The point was that Wiggins put up decent shooting numbers while having the ball in his hands a lot and shouldering a much bigger load than he'd be asked to in Cleveland where he'd theoretically be the 3rd option on offense instead of the guy he is in MN who's asked to create offense. I don't need a breakdown about why KAT is a good player but the point remains that he in no way shape or form provides Wiggins with the type of space and quality looks he'd get playing alongside Bron and Kyrie which means it stands to reason that he'd improve on his already decent shooting numbers. Its stupid that you can't simply concede that point

 

[Verbal Kint]

Wiggins will never be the "main" scoring threat on any team with KAT

You Wiggins stans are pathetic. You care more about this trade than Cavs fans.

Memo... we don't care about Wiggins.

I'm a Wolves fan. I don't care who's better between the 2. I hope both are all time greats. And again, if you think Towns was the main option last year you simply weren't watching. And you're arguing against yourself since I haven't once talked at all about what the future will look like since all I'm talking about was if it was a good trade for the Cavs to this point. Yall ADD nikkas need to focus. And if you don't care about Wiggins stop commenting in a thread with his name in the title ol 'I don't care but I care' nikka

 

[Verbal Kint]

That is exactly what it means.

So Detroit made a good choice taken Darko over Melo cuz they won a title?

 

[street heat]

So Detroit made a good choice taken Darko over Melo cuz they won a title?

thats not the same thing. the cavs traded for a proven player vs one with just potential, and won a title.....also we could be calling them back to back champs had they been healthy in 2015, but thats another discussion. plus wiggins is really a 3, like lebron, and they probably werent thinking the league would fall in love with small ball.

pistons drafted darko over melo based on what they thought they needed more. obviously neither one had played in the league and there is guarantee melo would be a star. they thought darko could be special as well. im not saying it was a good move just that its a different situation.

 

[Art Barr]

So Detroit made a good choice taken Darko over Melo cuz they won a title?

This.


Art Barr

 

[SchoolboyC]

So Detroit made a good choice taken Darko over Melo cuz they won a title?

Apples to oranges

 

[Lord Beasley]

niccas using one play to justify that atrocious trade.

 

[Verbal Kint]

thats not the same thing. the cavs traded for a proven player vs one with just potential, and won a title.....also we could be calling them back to back champs had they been healthy in 2015, but thats another discussion. plus wiggins is really a 3, like lebron, and they probably werent thinking the league would fall in love with small ball.

pistons drafted darko over melo based on what they thought they needed more. obviously neither one had played in the league and there is guarantee melo would be a star. they thought darko could be special as well. im not saying it was a good move just that its a different situation.

Apples to oranges

No, its the same thing. You're saying that because a title was won the move was validated, even though the player the was made for was the 4th or 5th best player in that series while the guy they sent away could have arguably been a bigger contributer AND at a spot they needed more. All the player comparisons are being ignored in favor of 'well they won so it worked' which is just silly. A lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, Bron and Thompson would have been a more effective lineup against GSW in almost every way than the Kyrie, JR, Bron, Love and Thompson lineup. Love was an out of place role player in that series and only made an impact by being a hustle guy in that game 7. No knock on him, its just that GSW is the one team in the league he just can't deal with. Wiggins would've been a bigger help in every way but maybe pure shooting. Bron plays the 4, more ball handling, fewer defensive matchup issues, more athleticism and more slashing

 

[SchoolboyC]

No, its the same thing. You're saying that because a title was won the move was validated, even though the player the was made for was the 4th or 5th best player in that series while the guy they sent away could have arguably been a bigger contributer AND at a spot they needed more. All the player comparisons are being ignored in favor of 'well they won so it worked' which is just silly. A lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, Bron and Thompson would have been a more effective lineup against GSW in almost every way than the Kyrie, JR, Bron, Love and Thompson lineup. Love was an out of place role player in that series and only made an impact by being a hustle guy in that game 7. No knock on him, its just that GSW is the one team in the league he just can't deal with. Wiggins would've been a bigger help in every way but maybe pure shooting. Bron plays the 4, more ball handling, fewer defensive matchup issues, more athleticism and more slashing

No it's not the same thing at all. To try to equate them is obtuse as hell.

Maybe if the Cavs took Dante Exum over Wiggins it would've been comparable, or if the Pistons say traded a rookie Melo for Rasheed Wallace. But until then it's asinine.

The Pistons were coming off a season where they had the best record in their conference when they drafted Darko. They weren't expecting him to come in and carry them to a title immediately. Hell, he was barely 18 at the time and he played the same position as their star player.

And people are saying the Cavs got what they wanted out of the deal because well...the Cavs got what they wanted out of the deal. They made the move because they felt it put them in a better position to win a title in the near future, and they won said title with Love playing a part. Could you argue that they matchup better with the Warriors with Wiggins, sure. But that doesn't change the fact that they got what they came for and I'm pretty sure knowing what they know how, they're pretty content with how things turned out

 

[tremonthustler1]

No, its the same thing. You're saying that because a title was won the move was validated, even though the player the was made for was the 4th or 5th best player in that series while the guy they sent away could have arguably been a bigger contributer AND at a spot they needed more. All the player comparisons are being ignored in favor of 'well they won so it worked' which is just silly. A lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, Bron and Thompson would have been a more effective lineup against GSW in almost every way than the Kyrie, JR, Bron, Love and Thompson lineup. Love was an out of place role player in that series and only made an impact by being a hustle guy in that game 7. No knock on him, its just that GSW is the one team in the league he just can't deal with. Wiggins would've been a bigger help in every way but maybe pure shooting. Bron plays the 4, more ball handling, fewer defensive matchup issues, more athleticism and more slashing

Not the same thing. As we know now, both Melo and Darko would have been insignificant to their future based off roster construction and who was coaching. Neither would have moved the needle during Detroit's title year and other teams afterward.

If you have Wiggins, you're not trading for Smith and Shumpert, so where is that extra volume outside shooting going to come from? The goal of everything LeBron did was to win a title and expedite the process. They accomplished that. If the thought was "Love didn't contribute much" then you can't argue that Wiggins would have done more when in reality it's a moot point. Cleveland got what they wanted.

And if you think Blatt or anyone was gonna successfully convince LeBron to be a full time 4, good luck.

 

[SadimirPutin]

The trade that ultimately mattered the most was the trade that got Waiters out and netted them Mozgov, Shumpert and Smith

 

[Basaglia]

So Detroit made a good choice taken Darko over Melo cuz they won a title?

That's a draft pick. This was a trade that was pretty much straight-up player for a player.

Wiggins ain't nobody, dogg.

 

[Leonard Washington]

 

[SchoolboyC]

Also there's something that should be acknowledged. People keep bringing up how the Cavs match up better with the Warriors with Wiggins instead of Love and while that may be true, it's not like the Cavs made this deal with the Warriors in mind.

Ignoring revisionist history, the Warriors came from pretty much out of nowhere. The Cavs biggest competition at the time was expected to be the Bulls in the East and the Spurs/Thunder out West. The Warriors were an afterthought. Heading into the season they weren't even top 5 in championship odds. David Lee was expected to still be their starting PF. So if you want to believe the Cavs should've had the foresight to see the Warriors coming, you have every right but I think it'd be a bit ridiculous.

 

[Verbal Kint]

No it's not the same thing at all. To try to equate them is obtuse as hell.

Maybe if the Cavs took Dante Exum over Wiggins it would've been comparable, or if the Pistons say traded a rookie Melo for Rasheed Wallace. But until then it's asinine.

The Pistons were coming off a season where they had the best record in their conference when they drafted Darko. They weren't expecting him to come in and carry them to a title immediately. Hell, he was barely 18 at the time and he played the same position as their star player.

And people are saying the Cavs got what they wanted out of the deal because well...the Cavs got what they wanted out of the deal. They made the move because they felt it put them in a better position to win a title in the near future, and they won said title with Love playing a part. Could you argue that they matchup better with the Warriors with Wiggins, sure. But that doesn't change the fact that they got what they came for and I'm pretty sure knowing what they know how, they're pretty content with how things turned out

Its the same thing not because the circumstances are the same, but because the issue is the reasoning used to come to the faulty conclusion. Say your goal is to climb a wall and you have 2 options available to you to get over that wall. If you pick option A and get over the wall that doesn't prove A was a better choice than B. A could've been a rope and B a ladder. Just because the Cavs achieved their goal doesn't mean they picked the best option to do so. Whether or not they're satisfied or happy with their choice doesn't matter if we're asking the question 'was it the right move?'. Again, by the logic used, even if Love was hurt and out for the year and they won it would've been the right move because the Cavs won the title. That's horrible, flawed logic. The outcome itself does not determine if the method was correct. I can choose to figure out what 100-50 is by counting it out on my fingers. I still get to 50 but that method isn't the best way to find the answer.

Not the same thing. As we know now, both Melo and Darko would have been insignificant to their future based off roster construction and who was coaching. Neither would have moved the needle during Detroit's title year and other teams afterward.

If you have Wiggins, you're not trading for Smith and Shumpert, so where is that extra volume outside shooting going to come from? The goal of everything LeBron did was to win a title and expedite the process. They accomplished that. If the thought was "Love didn't contribute much" then you can't argue that Wiggins would have done more when in reality it's a moot point. Cleveland got what they wanted.

And if you think Blatt or anyone was gonna successfully convince LeBron to be a full time 4, good luck.

I'm not going to argue Melo vs Darko even though you're pretty wrong that Melo wouldn't have moved the needle more than Darko.

Regarding Wiggins that's all hypothetical. There's no real reason to believe that they wouldn't have still traded for Shumpert and Smith, especially since Wiggins was a rookie and they still would've needed veteran help, shooting and perimeter D. And I can certainly argue that Wiggins could've contributed more this year as I already have. How is that a moot point when its the entire premise of this thread? And again, Just because Cle reached their end goal doesn't mean they used the most efficient method to get there. Also with Wiggins they would've had more cap space available than when they took on Love's contract. That means they could've had a guy that contributes just as much if not more, plus more flexibility. To be clear, at the time I thought it was a win win trade and with the info available at the time it was the right move. What changed was GSW and their death lineup which essentially rendered Love a role player against them specifically which is why I believe Wiggins would be a much better fit for them against GSW specifically who has been their only challenger.