Somalia may know peace before the DRC.
Essential The Africa the Media Doesn't Tell You About
- Thread starter TommyHilltrigga
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Frangala
All Star
The situation is alarming but I don't think it's to that point YET. He is under extreme pressure he thought that by getting over the opposition the path was clear but he underestimated the power of the Catholic Church in the country which is putting an extreme amount of pressure on him to organize elections December of this year in addition he didn't count on people being mobilized. The Congolese have had a rep for the past few years of being scared (justified) but I think the tide is changing. They are not as politically mature as West Africans but it's getting there.
Again I cannot emphasize enough the significance of the Catholic Church in the country and the situation has gotten the attention of Pope Francis because one of his counselors (the only African in his inner circle) is the archbishop of Kinshasa Mosengwo (staunch anti-Kabila guy). The Church was able to weaponize religion in the good sense meaning if you ever traveled in Africa. Religious institutions don't dwell into social questions or are not politicized that's not the case in DRC. The era of preaching the Bible or prosperity preaching is over.
He just released a few political prisoners today because he is under pressure. Unlike the neighbors in Rwanda, Uganda and Burundi, the constitution bars referendums on term limits.
I don't quite understand this type of warning in the media... it's not like the RDC was at peace right now. You have sporadic but frequent attacks and killings in the Katanga and in the Northeast (how is it different to a civil war situation?) Rwanda continues to loot the Kivu with the help of the US and the UK. Right now Kabila cannot control the totality of his country ( but is he really governing his own country? Is he even trying?)
I think the real question should be: is there a person who will be able to unify the RDC?
The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
As sad as this may seem, Congo needs a Mao type figure. A general who can unify the country and expel foreigners.
They do... But if such a man was to exist, Americans, Chinese and Rwandese would make sure he ends up like Lumumba.
Congo is just too big and too rich, it needs to be divided in 2 or 3 countries imo.
Frangala
All Star
NO IT DOES NOT. The root of all Congo's problems is not because it is too big. It is because it lacks good governance and leadership. Do you think that if it is divided (i don't even entertain that thought), that the people at the east would be at ease. We are an occupied country and the way to deal with being occupied is NOT balkanization. We are lucky enough not to have an ethnic conflict or "problem" like Nigeria, Kenya, Cameroon,Ivory Coast etc... I literally have 6 different major ethnic groups in my bloodline going back three generations from all over the country. I thought that was normal growing up until I looked at the experiences of other African nationals and saw how ethnic politics was prevalent in other African countries.
Everybody regardless of ethnicity or tribe suffers as wells as every political elite of every ethnic group loots and lacks character and selling his/her country out. The only solution is literally an uprising and change in political class. Do you really think if the country was balkanized or divided, that somehow the killings in Beni, Ituri, Fizi in the east would stop. Congo was rich and big in Mobutu's era but never experienced this type of violence in those hotspots What does that tell you? If the only variable in the contribution to the violence is Kabila since the same country was "too big and too rich" when Mobutu was in power yet never experienced this level of violence. What does that tell you?
The mistake the Congolese made is to accept ANY TYPE of so called liberator into the country because they just wanted change now that change has worsened the country but with the Church and some newfound political maturity (I was there the past couple of weeks) hopefully they will make the right decision.
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The Odum of Ala Igbo
Hail Biafra!
I wouldn't mind there being a good Christian Democrat party in DRC
They already been demanding free cash from the government for years. That's their national slogan.
After years of demanding and demanding and demanding they managed to constitutionally turn Kenya into nearly a federal republic, the central govt has to distribute most of the national reserve to all 47 locally elected governors. Now we've got alot of districts that are just joy-riding on others hard-work while being very vocal about wanting more government assistance.
Their corrupt populist governors and parliamentarians bought campaign billboards and helicopters with the billions and have been flying all over their constituencies for the last 10 years talmbout Central Kenya is to blame for all their problems.
This,this,this! When you tell them that,they go:
Clueless mofos!
What you really need,breh,is too make those Tutsi invaders pay! I swear there's a special place in hell for M7 and Kagame. The problem is even in forums like this with relatively woke people most have NO IDEA the bloodshed Tutsis have inflicted on Congolese.
Why is every solution to an African countries problem is to divide it? Nigeria, Sudan(heck I can barely even use this as an example), and maybe Ethiopia I get... But DRC? I never seen its problem as needing to split up... I doubt the majority of Congolese outside the southern part even wanna split. Congo just needs a competent leader.
Edit: By splitting you're doing what the West, Rwandan and Uganda wants.
Frangala
All Star
People fail to make that distinction. People often think that the solution to the conflict is Balkanization when the motivation for the conflict is to balkanize (don't know if I am making sense) in order to make looting easier. If you want to divide the country, you are essentially giving in to the people who are perpetuating the violence which is often outsiders and not the citizens/residents of that region demanding the right to self determination.
Balkanization would mean easier way for those who are perpetuating the violence to pillage and loot at the expense of those citizens/residents of that region. There is no feeling or desire among the Congolese citizens to split the country why would you want to do it anyways at the expense of outsiders. At least with Nigeria (Biafra) or South Sudan, there were CITIZENS of the country with legitimate grievances who felt marginalized enough to say that they want a right to self-determination and govern their own affairs/lives. If you do it in DRC, you would do it at the benefit of those OUTSIDE of DRC and NON-CITIZENS in a country where citizens for the most part have lived at ease among each other for the majority of the country's history.
It's like consulting the arsonist who burned your house for a solution on what you should do with your land when he/she initially set the fire in order to remove you from your land. I don't know if this analogy makes sense. Are you going to throw up your hands and say "well this fire is unmanageable, I might as well leave my land to the arsonist". This is a microcosm of DRC.
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The Singularity
Pro
Their governors got 7 helicopters for every day of the week and an extra one for the mistress.This,this,this! When you tell them that,they go:
Clueless mofos!
But mercy please, they are marginalized..
The division of Congo cannot be called Balkanisation IMO. This would be the case in CIV for example if you divide it in Akan, Kru etc. because it's a relatively small country. It would just create micro and weak countries and I would agree with you. Congo on the other hand is huge. You can easily create 3 descent size countries.
Nigeria has a big population and quite a high population density in the south combined with gas which naturally create tensions. You don't have this type of situation in the RDC. As for Sudan we all know the creation of the south is an hollywoodian sad joke, the problem being the Chinese influence in Khartoum that the US feared.
You talk about western interests... unlike you I think the current situation of Congo is what americans want and what's worse for Congolese. The country is simply too big to be governed right now, infrastructures barely exist outside of major cities. We don't even know how many people live in the RDC... Yes governance is the major issue, and you know as me that Kabila is a puppet, the congolese army is a joke and barely controls Kinshasa. So right now the country is just looted by everyone. How can it be worse than that?
I'm not saying that division is necessary the solution but it doesn't seem a bad idea for me. Or at least a type of federal country, like the united state of Congo or something like Germany.
What about a strong leader now? Give me a name because I don't see anyone. And even if he existed, is the west going to tolerate him? RDC has unique resources for key economical sectors, especially technologies, with huge growth and prospects. These mines will never be nationalized I can bet on that. Also do you think Congolese are going to accept a Gaddafi or Mobutu type leader? I doubt about this, times have changed and the youth don't think in the submissive way of our parents generation. I just try to keep things pragmatic, but how a Katangese, a guy from Kivu and a Lingala can be united? These are pretty different cultures who live far apart each others, unlike what you have in West Africa.
Frangala
All Star
Go to Kinshasa which is literally a melting pot of all the country's region that's how they co exist. The people from the East (Kivus) are even more nationalist because they are bearing the brunt and often victims of this violence and always insist in not balkanizing. You have people from different parts of the country who co exist with each other. I do not know much of CIV's ehtnic problems DRC is not CIV, Kenya, South Sudan or Nigeria when it comes to ethnic/tribal coexistence or lack thereof. Congolese have been living with each other in harmony since independence (apart for Moise Tshombe's attempt to break away Katanga and this again was influenced by Western powers.
You act as if not knowing the population of one's country due to lack of census or infrastructure is a Congolese problem. No African country except maybe for South Africa and the northern Arab African country do not know their population size. I lived and worked in Nigeria for 2 years. Nigeria is Africa's largest economy does not necessarily know what its population is. Official numbers say 180 million people and some think is over 200 million. Not knowing population size due to lack of infrastructure or census is NOT a Congolese problem but an infrastructure problem and essentially a Sub-Saharan African problem especially if it is a large country.
Again, the solution to being occupied is not to break away countries by ethnic groups or tribes when the country has no ethnic/tribal problems (Congo has a lot of problems but tribalism is not one of them). It surely does not make sense. Frank Diongo is a strong leader right now and has been in prison for 1 year.
I never mentioned that America cared about the Congolese. There are no permanent friends but only permanent interests in geopolitics. We all know that and the Congolese are starting to understand that again I was there two weeks ago, you see a maturation of people politically.
Congo is huge and has a low population density so we should divide it? It does not make sense. You act as if populations are stagnant. It is estimated that the population is 80 million (even after losing 5-8 million in the two wars from 1997-2003) and projected to be 100 million by 2030. Congolese women have a top 5 fertility rate in the world and the second highest in Africa after Niger. Populations are not stagnant especially in the African context (the fastest growing population in the world). To justify breaking up a country TODAY because of low population density TODAY without taking into consideration of demographic trends and its impact in the FUTURE is not a a good argument.
The solution for Congo and I know it sounds cliche is to take matters into their own hands and that comes with political maturity. Kinshasa does not need to be controlled by the army I think you meant some eastern cities in the country.
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