How so?Spence been ducking
Bob Arum is the primary reason this fight hasn't taken place sooner
Terence Crawford vs Errol Spence Posts Super Thread (Uppin 4 ol times sake))
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Bob Arum is the primary reason this fight hasn't taken place sooner
The fighters want the fight that's a given. The Promoters / Showtime are thinking long term. They got fights that they can make in house. It's like the Wilder vs Fury fight. They are probably making sure that they have options on Crawford's next fight (I believe the winner gets the bigger split in the rematch, which is why Crawford has no choice but to take the smaller split since Spence is the proven A-side).
PBC can put up 40 for Canelo cause he is proven on PPV with the right opponent. I think the Plant fight did like 800K, plus you add the gate for the fight and they made a profit. The Benavidez fight would do numbers. No one wanted to see Bivol or GGG. It's hard to promote a fight when none of the fighters involved speak English
.Bud's issue is his numbers haven't been too good, and most of these people crying about the fight are going to stream it anyway. That is why if you look at the PBC purses for their PPV fights the guarantee isn't that much. The fighters get paid based on how well the PPV did.
They need to stop leaking stuff and negotiate. Usually the PBC fights just get made and you don't here anything about the negotiations. Crawford doesn't have a promoter and his advisor is wanted by the FBI.
This is the first fight he is negotiating for himself so of course its going to take time. (Look at Lamar Jackson and the Ravens situation).Crawford needs to tell his team to STFU, or just come out himself and say what the hold up is?
I don't think the thing holding up the fight is this fight but the ones that happen after it. If you were the PBC and Showtime wouldn't you want the rematch to air on your platform exclusively. If Crawford wins wouldn't you want him to face guys like Ennis, Thurman, Garcia, Charlo on PPV? If they don't lock him in it will end up like the Fury situation. He went to ESPN and took other fights before the rematches.
Spences side has more to lose.
They have more belts
Do better on PPV
They are putting up the money
Crawford is about to get his biggest payday, a shot at Undisputed, and is still a free agent (He can sign with DAZN or ESPN if he gets all the belts). Imagine build up your fighter to be a PPV draw to possibly give it all away to someone that doesn't do half of his numbers to go to another network like Fury did. It's a business before anything. We waited years for Mayweather vs Pacquiao we can wait a few more months for this fight.
These same people (ESPN) were the ones that said the fight was basically done a few weeks ago. They had people booking flights and everything
. They don't know what the fukk they are talking about because the PBC side is not even talking to them. They are just getting info from Crawford's family who are not even in the negotiations. If it didn't come from Crawford, Spence, or Espinoza then it is just gossip. These youtubers and writers are just putting this stuff out there to get clicks.Mikey was signed to the PBC for a few fights, Bud resigned with Top Rank. You are right it could have been made a few years ago if Bud signed with them back then. Spence got all the belts one his side to make this fight easier to make. Spence in all this time in between got all the titles, was in a car wreck and had eye surgery. Came back with no tune ups and did what he said he would do.
Crawfords last 4 fights were Porter, Brook, Kavaliauskas, Khan
Spence last 4 Ugas, Garcia, Porter, Garcia.
If this fight doesn't get made who is each guy fighting? Spence can get Ennis or Thurman on PPV. Crawford will fight who? Every decent name is on the PBC, Can't move up cause Charlo got mandatories due, Golden Boy won't give him Ortiz who has been ranked #1 for years. It's like the Charlo vs Mungia fight. Showtime was putting up the money so of course they would dictate the terms. They even offered them the rematch exclusively on DAZN if Mungia won, and they declined the fight even though Mungia wanted it.
For them to do a series of fights Crawford would have to be signed by the PBC or Showtime. That is what the hold up is in my opinion. If he was with either one the fight would be done already, and he probably would have got a better end of the deal. He is betting on himself like Floyd did against De La Hoya. Him signing to the PBC would setup better fights done the line (Charlo, Ennis, Garcia, etc.), but after the Top Rank situation I can see why he would rather be a free agent like what Canelo is doing.
Black_Jesus
Superstar
Yea. Even if everything that's being put out is lies the fact the fight still hasn't been made falls on Spence/Haymon. They are running the show.. There's nothing left to Blame.. Bud has has done everything he's needed asked to do...These same people (ESPN) were the ones that said the fight was basically done a few weeks ago. They had people booking flights and everything
1. get a belt
2. Clean up his imaginary side of the street
3. "You ain't fought nobody" So Bud stops 2 of Spence toughest opponents
4. "Bob Arum is the problem" Crawford leaves TR
Now here we are a year later still no fight... The longer they take to make this fight the worse it makes Spence and Haymon look
Rev Leon Lonnie Love
damned mine eyes, DAMNED mine eyes!!
So i've been duped again, huh?
Black Miller
All Star
The fighters want the fight that's a given. The Promoters / Showtime are thinking long term. They got fights that they can make in house. It's like the Wilder vs Fury fight. They are probably making sure that they have options on Crawford's next fight (I believe the winner gets the bigger split in the rematch, which is why Crawford has no choice but to take the smaller split since Spence is the proven A-side).
PBC can put up 40 for Canelo cause he is proven on PPV with the right opponent. I think the Plant fight did like 800K, plus you add the gate for the fight and they made a profit. The Benavidez fight would do numbers. No one wanted to see Bivol or GGG. It's hard to promote a fight when none of the fighters involved speak English
Bud's issue is his numbers haven't been too good, and most of these people crying about the fight are going to stream it anyway. That is why if you look at the PBC purses for their PPV fights the guarantee isn't that much. The fighters get paid based on how well the PPV did.
They need to stop leaking stuff and negotiate. Usually the PBC fights just get made and you don't here anything about the negotiations. Crawford doesn't have a promoter and his advisor is wanted by the FBI.
Crawford needs to tell his team to STFU, or just come out himself and say what the hold up is?
I don't think the thing holding up the fight is this fight but the ones that happen after it. If you were the PBC and Showtime wouldn't you want the rematch to air on your platform exclusively. If Crawford wins wouldn't you want him to face guys like Ennis, Thurman, Garcia, Charlo on PPV? If they don't lock him in it will end up like the Fury situation. He went to ESPN and took other fights before the rematches.
Spences side has more to lose.
They have more belts
Do better on PPV
They are putting up the money
Crawford is about to get his biggest payday, a shot at Undisputed, and is still a free agent (He can sign with DAZN or ESPN if he gets all the belts). Imagine build up your fighter to be a PPV draw to possibly give it all away to someone that doesn't do half of his numbers to go to another network like Fury did. It's a business before anything. We waited years for Mayweather vs Pacquiao we can wait a few more months for this fight.
PBC did the one off with canelo with no problem. Same thing with Fury (along with ESPN)and Wilder also. And canelo caked off and bounced on them. Fury won the 2nd and had to come right back and deal with them. Even though it had to go to court. I'm pretty sure if it's a one off with Crawford and Crawford has a good experience and gets a good payday he'll work with them some more. They don't gotta force that man into different options or lock him into a multiple fight deal. Just get this fight made and if Spence wins, Bud got no choice but to do it again if they got a rematch clause. I'm sure he would want a chance to avenge his 0. Same way if Bud wins, Spence want that get back for his belts.
Then if Bud wins both and want to 154, he'll have no choice but to deal with PBC if he want that Charlo work. All that other stuff is not Bud or Spence issue. About networks and future deals or mergers. PBC should be able to make a fair offer for both sides and get the fight done. But hopefully it gets set for January or February at the latest. I'm fine with that.
I think it was reported already that their would be a rematch clause with the winner getting a bigger split.
Canelo had most of the belts and was the Draw and the A-side.
Fury brought the UK market meaning more PPV money in the pot. (If they didn't have the rematch clause we probably wouldn't get another fight.
What does Crawford bring to the table besides his 1 belt? Why would the PBC continue to give paydays to someone out side their stable when they got over 100 fighters on their roster? Fandura is probably the next guy they want to build up to put on PPV along with Benavedez. You looking at it from a fans prospective, while they are looking at it from a business prospective. This is why it was so hard for a Guy like Ward to get big fights against Canelo and GGG. If he beats those guys it decrease their value, and if he gives them a beating that is less fights you can get out of them.
That is why Andrade can't get a fight even when he was champ.
That is why Floyd was ducked for all those years, and when he finally got his shot took a small split.
People keep saying Bud should get a fair offer but know one really knows what was offered? A few weeks ago ESPN was saying everything was agreed to and both sides just need to sign. So basically they were full of shyt or someone threw another hurdle in the way. Any big PBC fight that was made outside you never heard anything about the negotiations until the fight was announced. Crawford doesn't have a promoter or advisor so that if why this is getting messy.
This is what we know
Spence was the bigger draw of the 2 so he should get a bigger split (which was agreed to)
There is a rematch clause and the winner would get more money in the second fight (like Fury vs Wilder)
The fight would be on neutral ground in Vegas
What is the hold up on Crawford's side?
How is it on them when they are putting up the money. Who are they even talking too on Crawford's side?
Spence said from the beginning what he was going to do and he did it Got his belts and called out Crawford.
PBC sent Porter to fight Crawford on ESPN exclusively.
Bud fought 2 of Spences opponents after they were already washed up. You really giving him credit for Brook
Crawford tried to sue Top Rank so obviously they were a problem. Look how long it took to make fights when Top Rank was involve. (It Took years to get Floyd vs Manny, but they got Manny in a room alone and let him talk to Haymon and the fight got done and he even signed with them after that. The first fight between Fury and Wilder got made quickly and then the rematch didn't happen until 2 years later after his deal with Top Rank and ESPN.
Are they saying Crawford has to sign with them to make the fight?
What is holding up the fight if it's their fault? No one is giving an actual good reason with a reliable source.
The issue (according to ESPN): Crawford wants transparency related to event expenses since the contract contains no guaranteed purse, sources said.
This makes no sense, his purse has to be submitted to commission before the fight.
Spence was guaranteed to earn about $1.5 million for his last fight. He is also expected to take 50 percent of pay-per-view buys. Ugas earned about $1 million, plus 50 percent of the pay-per-view share.
What does Crawford want a Canelo type guaranteed purse?
As far the the Event expenses can Crawford produce them for his last fight?
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Black Miller
All Star
I'm not looking at nothing from a fan perspective. PBC gave ugas and porter and Danny Garcia guarantees and fair splits. Mikey Garcia was a free agent and working on a fight by fight basis with PBC and got a good deal. I can understand a canelo guarantee but Caleb plant was guaranteed 10 mil homie stop it. And it wasn't guaranteed the fight would sell. If Bud is not even getting a guarantee for something upfront or even an explanation on the backend nah that ain't adding up. That would be my hold up if I agreed to everything and a lower cut. I want to know how the money is being distributed. That advisor stuff is not cutting it.
Showtime and epinoza been saying about being reasonable before negotiating started like they trying to limit stuff but they keep finding ways to pull it out of they tail for other fighters.
Andrade screwed himself by backing out of multiple fights with PBC beforehand. So the business is gonna be funny but its rumored he might be fighting benavidez and if that happens that's making this long drawn out negotiating look worse. Crawford made at least 6 mil vs porter. From the reports, they saying the man ain't got no guarantee and they only saying he getting his backend from the net profit not the gross. That man would be stupid as hell not to ask about gross and expenses. The man is arguable the best fighter in the world and one of your fighters want the fight. That's credibility off top. It ain't about belts. And them fights Bud had at ESPN drew well of course not the ppvs. But they had his joints on the app and wasn't even promoting him anyway.
I don't got no horse in this race as I like both fighters but this all sounds funny from PBC. But Andy Ruiz and Ortiz got guarantees and I'm sure that ppv flopped worse than ever. Same as Andy Ruiz and arreola getting guarantees and ppvs.
Ward couldn't get them fights cause GGG, canelo and them cats didn't want to fight him. They had them money for it. Even HBO was trying to move him away from it and forcing him to 175 to kovalev. Let's not play dumb. Even if ward beat them, GGG, canelo, kovalev whoever are still big names and would be wanted by fans. Business don't get ruined like that with a loss.
But I'm done speaking on this cause its all speculation when a date is set, I'll gladly pay or go to the fight and support both dudes cause they worth it to me.
Dallas' 4 Eva
Superstar
I can't believe nikkas actually think Crawford is getting no guarantee for this. That is literally unheard of bruh.
All those guys were signed to the PBC, while with Mikey they had options on his next fight. Mikey brought a fan base to sell the fight. If Bud was doing decent PPV numbers he would get a better deal. For the Canelo vs Plant fight you could guarantee 10 mil cause up until that point Canelo was doing over 500K PPV buys (That's at least 40 mil in the pot without the gate, and the fight did like 800K buys). The Gate alone did close to 20 million. Based on Crawford's last fights / gates what do you think his guarantee should be?
Crawford has to have a guaranteed purse to be given to the commission before the fight. If he wants a higher guarantee that is another issue (just say that). If he agreed to a lower split than isn't that the guarantee. If you look at recent PPV purse with the PBC most of the money comes from the buys.
Andrade is not fighting Benavidez bruh he signed with Salita Promotions and is calling out Eubanks
who has a fight coming up (make that make sense). He was a free agent and the names the you can fight are with the PBC but he goes and signs with Salita, after Benavidez is on record calling him out (you think the PBC will make that fight now when they can put him in with Plant, Charlo, Morrell, or even Canelo?)Look at how the PBC does fight splits and purses. Its usually like up to 2 mil for the a-side and a percentage of PPV. You think they going to guarantee you money up front when you have proven not to be a good draw, and can possibly beat their best name on the roster? Of course they will look out for their own best interest.
If Crawford had to produce event expense for his previous fights he would probably get offered less money if what Arum was saying was true.
(which he probably can't, and if you didn't ask Top Rank for any of this then STFU and move on).I will buy the PPV like I usually do (might even go see it live if I get a chance). If all these people complaining on Crawford's side actually bought his fights he would have got a better offer, if he was signed to the PBC he would have got a better offer like all those fighters on their roster got.
He wants to bet on himself which is fine, and he would make more in a rematch. I know Daniel Kinahan is not involved in the fight so who is representing Crawford? If he doesn't have anyone on his side that knows the business than he will take an L before he even gets in the ring.
Black_Jesus
Superstar
What Crawford brings to the table is that 1 belt which is what Spence needs to get undisputed status(something Crawford and other great fighters have already accomplished) And also Spence vs Crawford is the biggest most anticipated fight in boxing today where Spence and Crawford will rake in revenue. Certainly more than Spence has ever brought in.. And Spence needs it since his numbers been on the decline since he brought up the lightweight mikey garcia and still went the distance
Wilder n Fury happened because both fighters wanted the fight.. Same with Canelo and Plant.. when both fighters want to fight then fights get made. ggg n Canelo ain't wanna fight Ward.. theme guys ain't wanna fight Andrade.. don't Blame business or networks
We couldn't even get Spence to say "I want Crawford next" until 2022... He was happy hiding behind politics and imaginary sides of streets..
They are looking at it from a business perspective but it's more like a ducking perspective.. they wanna protect Spence from Crawford by any means.. Fury came in and took the belt from Wilder. Canelo came in and took the belt from Plant.. It seems like they don't have the confidence in Spence beating Crawford.. it looks like they need to stall the fight longer in order to age Bud out..
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Black_Jesus
Superstar
Crawford hasn't been with TR for a year and guess what.. We still ain't got no fight.. so from a logical point of view.. It was never Bud or TR stopping the fight. It was the guy who did what he said he was gonna do.. Which is duck and milk an imaginary side of the street for 4 years before having the confidence to finally say he want Bud next... If Haymon and Spence putting up the money then it's on them to get the fight made especially after Bud done left TR and is a free agent and has agreed to the splits and lowball offers according to the same source you're using to claim Bud wants transparencyHow is it on them when they are putting up the money. Who are they even talking too on Crawford's side?
Spence said from the beginning what he was going to do and he did it Got his belts and called out Crawford.
PBC sent Porter to fight Crawford on ESPN exclusively.
Bud fought 2 of Spences opponents after they were already washed up. You really giving him credit for Brook
Crawford tried to sue Top Rank so obviously they were a problem. Look how long it took to make fights when Top Rank was involve. (It Took years to get Floyd vs Manny, but they got Manny in a room alone and let him talk to Haymon and the fight got done and he even signed with them after that. The first fight between Fury and Wilder got made quickly and then the rematch didn't happen until 2 years later after his deal with Top Rank and ESPN.
Are they saying Crawford has to sign with them to make the fight?
What is holding up the fight if it's their fault? No one is giving an actual good reason with a reliable source.
The issue (according to ESPN): Crawford wants transparency related to event expenses since the contract contains no guaranteed purse, sources said.
This makes no sense, his purse has to be submitted to commission before the fight.
Spence was guaranteed to earn about $1.5 million for his last fight. He is also expected to take 50 percent of pay-per-view buys. Ugas earned about $1 million, plus 50 percent of the pay-per-view share.
What does Crawford want a Canelo type guaranteed purse?
As far the the Event expenses can Crawford produce them for his last fight?
How was Porter washed up?? He was outboxed and stopped late in the fight.. Porter was beaten more convincingly by Brook and Thurman too(arguably Ugas)... he was able to make Spence look bad cause Spence is overrated.. And as for Brook.. One fought him coming off a KO loss plus injuries and surgeries after dropping down from 160.. One fought him coming off a winning streak dropping from 154... I give Bud more credit than someone beating him coming off a KO loss..