WhoShotCha
Superstar
Definitely didn't deserve MVP over Kobe, just ask the players
Stop with the STEVE NASH disrespect
Everybody isn't on the level people are trying to put Steve Nash on either. You wanna put him in is proper place, then fine. You wanna exalt him, then there are no pleas to cop for that. Once again, we aren't talking win/loss here. We are talking his performance, when he was needed the most, at the crib in a game that his teammates kept close.
NASH WAS GREAT, BUT ANYONE WHO THINKS HE WAS CLOSE TO BEIN A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN 06 DOESNT DESERVE TO WATCH BASKETBALL
Field Marshall Bradley
Veteran
How old are you? Technically speaking, everything is created off a dribble, but setting guys up off your dribbling ability is 2 different things... they was running that hurry up fast break 8 seconds or less shyt in Phoenix... I don’t even think they had half court sets until Gentry took over...... Again.. my point stands.... If he averages 11 shots a game and never played over 36 minutes oonsistently,(unless he’s a big man) then he’s no MVP.. he wasn’t even the best player on his squad
Fax Nash is one of the greats but he’s a notch below CP3 and JKidd I never liked people putting Nash on their level. We finally agree on something in here
A 30 year old late bloomer that just so happened to blossom 10 years into his NBA career the exact moment he began being coached by D'antoni...wilted back to his previous form when they played a more traditional offense... then bloomed again once Gentry coached and put in his version of D'antoni's system? Quite a strange flower indeed
We've witnessed multiple instances of D'antoni inflating the production of his primary ballhandler...how many 30+ year old, 10 year vet "late bloomers" have we seen?....this seems to be going the wrong way up occam's razor
And you're right about PG not being a perfect example, someone said Nash was a top 10ish player in the league during his Suns run and I literally brought up the first top 10ish player to pop iny head as an example of how they're perceived.... PG's been a prime-Nash caliber player damm near the entirety of the time he's been in the league, and y'all are scoffing at it like it's an insult... validates my stance that what the OP is calling "disrespect" is really just "reality"
Bruh, I've been trying to be diplomatic by just saying they're on similar tiers as players...these muhfukkas are like "how dare you put Nash and PG in the same sentence"
shyt crazy lol
My e-brother for well over a decade
Glad we still got some real ones who actually know what the fukk they talking about
Long Live The Kane
Tyrant Titan
My e-brother for well over a decade
Glad we still got some real ones who actually know what the fukk they talking about
You already know what it is
Stockton gets way more respect than Nash it seems, despite never winning MVP honors or championships
He played in the Finals
Not to place him over anyone in the top five. Not seeing how he drives elite offense on the level of these players and he was limited defensively for reasons similar to Stockton (who was a better team defender). I do value offensive performance over defense for point guards because they tend to be limited in who they guard and tend have more direct influence over offensive play than defensive when the ball is in their hands more than anyone else's. When the Pistons were at their best Thomas lessened his creation load for a more balanced team approach. That he was willing to sacrifice his stats does reflect well on him as a team player, but it does show that the Pistons weren't reliant on him as a dominant anchor for their success in ways that is true of teams above him. Those Pistons were much better defensively than offensively, and Thomas wasn't the main driver to their defensive success (though he did contribute) whereas in the case of the top five every single one of those players were the predominant reason for their team's offensive success. Even in the case of Magic, when the Lakers were at their best ('87) it came after they gave the keys to the offense to him and Kareem to a clear backseat. Can argue that isn't fair to Isiah, that he could've put up a better profile for himself under a different circumstance and can talk me into him being higher than where I placed him off the strength of his postseason improvements. But I lean towards him being ranked at that spot based on what actually happened.
You can argue him as higher. Can pretty easily argue him over Isiah Thomas, and if I had to do the list again I might put him over Isiah. I just take issue with how limited he was as a scorer while needing to be put into a ball dominant role in order to get the most out of him. Kidd wasn't just an unreliable shooter throughout his prime, he had awful touch around the rim and didn't have the creation skill to consistently beat people 1on1 to begin with. As a playmaker he was prolific especially in transition, but his lack of scoring pressure made it easier to account for him in the half court where he was predictable. Didn't force teams enough into situations where they had to choose between leaving him open or a teammate as the players above him largely do much better.
But Kidd is the best defensive point guard I've ever seen, and he does break the rule that PGs aren't that valuable defensively due to size limitations when he had the versatility to guard 1-3 and occasionally fours depending on the matchup. He did help anchor some of the best defensive stretches of the 2000s and his rebounding was valuable. And as you say he has a number of good years as a strong role player for good teams that helps his case. I put him in the top ten with some leeway to move up because of this, but not at the top five level when his offense is so weak relative to peers who were all dominant offensive anchors, and offense is the most important attribute for the position. You can put an elite defense around limited defensive point guards because other positions carry more responsibility and influence - we've seen that with Curry (not a sieve, but limited). Saw that with Iverson. Rockets had a top 10 defense in 2015 around James Harden. But it is very hard to build a consistently great offense around a limited offensive PG who needs the ball in his hands but isn't actually suited to act as your primary scorer and playmaker.
I'm not arguing about MVPs. My first post said that MVP isn't about best player in the NBA. It's about narratives, team success and then regular season performance with no consideration for the postseason where the best players are usually decided. If you want to argue Kobe was better 2006 you get no pushback from me. That's just not what the award is about.
Nash is one of the best players of all time at setting guys up off dribbling ability so I don't know what you mean by that. That fast paced offense worked in part because Nash was so good at making the right decisions with the ball. Didn't need to dribble forever like Rondo waiting for something to open up when he forced that opening himself. He didn't need much time to force the defense into a bad position where he either generated a good look for a teammate or his own shot from an area he's efficient from.
So, the Phoenix Suns were primarily successful because of their offense. You would agree with that. Their offense was predicated on Steve Nash making decisions as a primary playmaker as well as taking what the defense give him if nothing was open. Their defense was not good, so if you're trying to argue Marion was better that seems off when his best attribute (defense) didn't lead to the Suns not getting murdered on the glass and stopping other teams consistently. And when Marion left the Suns they had several years at a top offensive level. And Marion wasn't even a good self creator nor was he good at creating for others, so you may be overvaluing his offense.
If you think Amare is better than you probably aren't placing enough importance on playmaking and neglecting what happened in 2006 when Amare tore his ACL and the Suns still were a top offense. Oh and their defense didn't get much worse because you know, not much of a defender at a position where you typically want your players to be good at defense.
Bledswole
Slappin and clowning chumps for fun.
Why you stop the comparison at 29
After that season, Nash got :
- 5 All-NBA teams (3 times in the first)
- 5 All-Star appearances
- 2 MVPs
- 5 seasons leading the league in assists per game
- 3 Conference Finals
Cause they dumb
