Stop calling my culture "Hip-Hop"

[Durrbrowski]

You don't know what your talking about... lol

You are programmed by westernized European schooling. West African slaves came from different blood lines and tribes had their own kings and queens. You are taught to lump everything together. Which is false. We are greater than just one group. Civilization started with Africa. This includes European and Asian. So to make an argument about hip hop not being the beginning of black culture and southern music being the beginning is small minded and misinformed. It's not your fault, but you can find out the truth before posting this self hating nonsense.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The fact that dub was already well established by 1970. And herc out his mouth said 1973. Shows that the culture of dancehall parties with a selector and emcee predates New York City

The part you're missing is the only thing they had in common was playing music on a turntable outside.Now here is the difference and why HipHop is closer to Disco.

Interesting. Sounds like there were so many influences and pieces that eventually formed in to hip hop that its hard to find a definitive root.

But I'm still not convinced by Herc saying it had zero impact. Sounds like he's drawing a line based on semantics and his own logic. If he is indeed the father/creator of hip hop I don't think its possible for there to be "zero" influence when he himself (and many other early hip hop pioneers) grew up in West Indian culture. Even if he isn't the sole "father" you can't really separate New York from Caribbean culture...

because he along with the other HipHop dj's was actually adapting American Funk/Disco music along with Disco dj'ing techniques. Disco djing is totally different from the Jamaican sound system style. For example

As far as djing, I never heard of any Jamaican DJ doing backspins, cutting, blends, scratches, chops,etc. All they do is slam records, and literally start the record over. I'm not dissing them because they do those things well but that is nothing like turntablism that we do in the states. These things should be mentioned when people say Jamaica was the home of the creation of hip hop.

I don't how anyone could look at the sound system turntable operators and think HipHop djing came from that considering they didn't even use 2 turntables and a mixer for continuous mixing. That came straight from Disco.

Although Herc was known for letting records play before and beyond their breaks (sometimes, to the consternation of some observers, including the “wack” or undesirable parts, or all the way to the end of a track), perhaps his most lasting legacy is the practice of isolating and extending these breakbeats, transforming the fleeting, funky moments into loops that could last for many minutes. Eventually, by employing two turntables and two copies of a record, Herc developed what he called the “Merry-Go-Round” technique. Dropping the needle back to the beginning of the break on one record just as the other was about to end, and repeating the process ad infinitum, Herc could keep a break — and a crowd of b-boys — breaking for as long as that particular section would work. Though the hip-hop story has enshrined Herc as the first to isolate and repeat breakbeats in this way, it should be noted that Herc’s technical proficiency was never exactly heralded, and so his focus on and liberation of the break should perhaps be understood more as an aesthetic than a technical achievement. Later DJs, such as Grandmaster Flash, influenced by Herc’s model but more virtuosic in their control over the turntables and mixer, would improve on the formula, moving beyond drop-the-needle imprecision by backspinning, scratching, and cutting the records while cueing them via monitoring headphones, thus allowing one to mix breaks more seamlessly into one another and to isolate shorter and shorter sections for repetition.

As an element of style, Herc’s less-than-seamless, stop-and-start approach to selection draws yet another connection to reggae performance practice. Whereas hip-hop DJing — partly related to its roots in disco and the club scene — has since developed in a manner that privileges smooth, beat-matched transitions between tracks, reggae selecting has remained a style more defined by stark cuts and mixes. This is often the case even when a selector is “juggling,” or mixing sequentially, several songs on the same underlying riddim: when a popular song receives requests for a “pull up,” the selector rewinds it, usually suddenly and audibly, and lets it play again. Reggae-style selecting arises partly out of the constraints of using a single turntable

Oh lawd..jeezus Christ ..RUB A DUB music di foundation of it all........regardless what a puzzyhole wikpedia geek may claim and call!!!!!

TWO TURNTABLE dat is HIP HOP....ONE TURNTABLE...dat is RUB A DUB!!!!!!!!......Di foundation from which dem come from"- Dennis Emmanuel Brown

Herc tried to the Disco Djing style but he never caught on. Disco djing is where Herc got the idea to use 2 copies of the same record with 2 turntables. They never did that in Jamaican sound system culture. For example

This video is a good example of the transition from pure Disco Djing to HipHop djing before the scratching and other tricks came in. This is like playing the break parts but with smooth disco djing skills.




This is a great example when it fully came into it's own and added new ideas such as back spinning and scratching






You will not find anything like this in the Jamaican Sound system operators because it relates more to Disco










.
.

Jamaican toasters didn't rap at all as I've pointed out millions of times. We have tons of examples of the Jamaican toasting style and it's nothing like rapping


A bit more on the differences between the Disco Dj's and the Herc scenes and how they impacted the formation of HipHop

From the article below:

"In contrast to Herc's pulled-ups and needle drops, disco dj's favored smooth segues from track to track. They also tended to rap in a more mellifluous style, relating directly, if casually, to the steady beats of the music they were playing, and stringing together long verse like presentations of their own set of stock phrases rather than the freer, more fragmented interjections of the Herculords and their streetwise colleagues. The next generation of hiphop Dj's and Mc's would synthesize these distinct strands, refining (if not outright commercializing) "street" style while bringing in a harder edge to the smooth surfaces of club rap and disco djing."

Exactly .... sometimes I question why I even come to The Booth

It didn't....dancehall and rap are cousins through older American roots. If anything HipHop influenced what became modern dancehall. As I once said...

I do notice in modern dancehall (1981 on) they started flowing with on beat syncopation whereas the original toasting they had (Uroy) was just random fragments with no real steady syncopation.

early jamaican toasting style




Supercat basically hints at it here

Super Cat was saying specifically that Rappers Delight was HUGE in Jamaica.

@2:23



shouts to @The Ruler 09 for posting that.

 

[Durrbrowski]

The Spanish and French actually kept record from what region their slaves came from. The music styles in Africa are affected mostly by environment. More similar than your giving them credit I think. Music was a form of communication between Africans of different languages but near proximity.

I don't think you understand how culture works. People from New Orleans have their own music style, stories, gangs etc. but yet the people of New Orleans are still considered part of your imiginary hip hop culture right?

So you are saying that displaced Africans in NYC just happened to be there since the colony was settled? The majority of African Americans who populate the north and west didn't move to this regions as a result of post emancipation persecution? As well as post world war opportunities in these industrial developing areas? Did your great grandparents and parents not bring slang and folklore and instruments and sounds from these one time plantation Meccas? And it bleed down through the generations to create your James Browns etc and forms of music that were brought to NYC? And the. Heard globally so that even cacs in England like the Beattles could hear it and stake some claim in it? Calling it rock and roll? ....Hip Hop is another by product of these Factual events. Just like music from the islands. It's not about one versus the other. It's about the variation in cultures and geography. We agree on that. But you are denying this very claim by ignoring the existence and origins of one of these genres which has come to be the most popular not just in the US but globally...Bc you have insecurities and hate based off current regional differences. Which in the big picture are arbitrary and pointless. Showing you have self hate against people who look like you. Wake up kid.

 

[SirBiatch]

Na

The roots come from the midwest

No they don't. Funk came out of Blues and Jazz and then Soul, which are from the South.

can I get some receipts from either of you?

From what I understand, James Brown recorded Cold Sweat, the first 'funk' song, in the Midwest (Ohio to be exact). Perhaps he was inspired by some shyt happened in the midwest which made him switch up his sound to the sound we now associate him with.

 

[mobbinfms]

there is a club chaos in lemeirt park that threw similar parties in the 1970s

Receipts?

 

[mobbinfms]

Jamaica did.
Jamaicans were the first to play the turntables in the park with a selector and Dj.

The selector was the DJ.

 

[mobbinfms]

The fact that dub was already well established by 1970. And herc out his mouth said 1973. Shows that the culture of dancehall parties with a selector and emcee predates New York City

That's not hip hop though.
It seems your ultimate point is that hip hop was not created in a vacuum, where every single defining element was something brand new. No one is disputing that.
Almost all innovation builds on what's already existing.

 

[mobbinfms]

The Spanish and French actually kept record from what region their slaves came from. The music styles in Africa are affected mostly by environment. More similar than your giving them credit I think. Music was a form of communication between Africans of different languages but near proximity.

I don't think you understand how culture works. People from New Orleans have their own music style, stories, gangs etc. but yet the people of New Orleans are still considered part of your imiginary hip hop culture right?

Maybe that's something we should have defined right from the get go. What is culture?

 

[Juneya]

The selector was the DJ.

You right I meant selector and emcee

 

[Juneya]

So you are saying that displaced Africans in NYC just happened to be there since the colony was settled? The majority of African Americans who populate the north and west didn't move to this regions as a result of post emancipation persecution? As well as post world war opportunities in these industrial developing areas? Did your great grandparents and parents not bring slang and folklore and instruments and sounds from these one time plantation Meccas? And it bleed down through the generations to create your James Browns etc and forms of music that were brought to NYC? And the. Heard globally so that even cacs in England like the Beattles could hear it and stake some claim in it? Calling it rock and roll? ....Hip Hop is another by product of these Factual events. Just like music from the islands. It's not about one versus the other. It's about the variation in cultures and geography. We agree on that. But you are denying this very claim by ignoring the existence and origins of one of these genres which has come to be the most popular not just in the US but globally...Bc you have insecurities and hate based off current regional differences. Which in the big picture are arbitrary and pointless. Showing you have self hate against people who look like you. Wake up kid.

I'm not denying its existence.
I'm denying it what your saying it is. The culture that is most popular globally and the US is a black (maybe bolack urban) culture. It was not created in NYC.

I'm not saying the great migration didn't happen. I'm saying there was a history that included key aspects of the hip hop culture, that existed before the great migration. The key elements are also found in cultures across the diaspora... NYC is not special. Nor can it say what is and isn't a part of our culture. It existed before. It's a bigger global culture not because it's made in NYC...but because it is made up of a culture that has appropriated globally due to slavery.

 

[Durrbrowski]

I'm not denying its existence.
I'm denying it what your saying it is. The culture that is most popular globally and the US is a black (maybe bolack urban) culture. It was not created in NYC.

I'm not saying the great migration didn't happen. I'm saying there was a history that included key aspects of the hip hop culture, that existed before the great migration. The key elements are also found in cultures across the diaspora... NYC is not special. Nor can it say what is and isn't a part of our culture. It existed before. It's a bigger global culture not because it's made in NYC...but because it is made up of a culture that has appropriated globally due to slavery.

No. NYC is the most iconic city in the World. It's The Metropolis. Hip Hop was created there. The 5 elements. It was shunned and called a fad. It climbed it's way from the gutter and took the city by storm. Then popular culture. It's a fact. You can feel like other regions contributed more to hip hop etc, but that shyt isn't true. Graffiti breaking DJing MCing combined together birthed this shyt. What southern cities had crews tagging their subways? Matter of fact where are their subways? Their Mecca and medina from BK to Harlem to Queen n BX? NYC was unique and it spawned hip hop. Thanks to cac gentrification and destruction of the south Bronx.

 

[EASTATLJERU]

great debate if people would decide to converse instead of all the name calling and shyt. Hiphop is a sensitive topic to people not only from NYC but around the world. The origins of this thing of ours def pre dates 70s and 80s NY. But thats ehen the name was given and it became identified as a culture or a "thing". Just let them have that. What its turned into is so much more


@ODOT META you dont know shyt about atlanta. You from ohio. Dont nobody wanna come to ohio for shyt. Cam and Gucci came thru and crushed yall buildings. Talking bout out of town nikkas like mfs dont go to your shytty ass town to hustle. You dont know shyt about atlanta streets. Or who really run it. U talkin bout 9 trey and SMM like that shyt aint worldwide. The NH60 nikkas das here got put on by nipsey and them. Bmf respected where they was and put the whole city on. Half they inner circle was atlanta nikkas. Why do u hate a place where nikkas get paid, the baddest bytches reside, and is the current "hiphop" mecca? Aint nothing to hate about my city. But you from ohio....

 

[mobbinfms]

and is the current "hiphop" mecca? Aint nothing to hate about my city.

That's a good reason to hate ATL actually

 

[spliz]

The part you're missing is the only thing they had in common was playing music on a turntable outside.Now here is the difference and why HipHop is closer to Disco.




because he along with the other HipHop dj's was actually adapting American Funk/Disco music along with Disco dj'ing techniques. Disco djing is totally different from the Jamaican sound system style. For example

​

I don't how anyone could look at the sound system turntable operators and think HipHop djing came from that considering they didn't even use 2 turntables and a mixer for continuous mixing. That came straight from Disco.

​

Herc tried to the Disco Djing style but he never caught on. Disco djing is where Herc got the idea to use 2 copies of the same record with 2 turntables. They never did that in Jamaican sound system culture. For example

This video is a good example of the transition from pure Disco Djing to HipHop djing before the scratching and other tricks came in. This is like playing the break parts but with smooth disco djing skills.




This is a great example when it fully came into it's own and added new ideas such as back spinning and scratching






You will not find anything like this in the Jamaican Sound system operators because it relates more to Disco










.
.

Jamaican toasters didn't rap at all as I've pointed out millions of times. We have tons of examples of the Jamaican toasting style and it's nothing like rapping


A bit more on the differences between the Disco Dj's and the Herc scenes and how they impacted the formation of HipHop

From the article below:

"In contrast to Herc's pulled-ups and needle drops, disco dj's favored smooth segues from track to track. They also tended to rap in a more mellifluous style, relating directly, if casually, to the steady beats of the music they were playing, and stringing together long verse like presentations of their own set of stock phrases rather than the freer, more fragmented interjections of the Herculords and their streetwise colleagues. The next generation of hiphop Dj's and Mc's would synthesize these distinct strands, refining (if not outright commercializing) "street" style while bringing in a harder edge to the smooth surfaces of club rap and disco djing."

It didn't....dancehall and rap are cousins through older American roots. If anything HipHop influenced what became modern dancehall. As I once said...



early jamaican toasting style




Supercat basically hints at it here

Son u dropped some of the best posts ever posted on this site in this thread.

 

[Hamza B.]

Hip Hop isn't just rapping over beats though. It's also graffiti and b-boying, which was intertwined with the emerging musical style at a certain time and place…..1970's Bronx, NYC.

No one is saying rhythmic poetry started with Hip Hop. But all the musical, lyrical, visual, and physical expressions coming together in the way they did was a unique thing, and was labeled "Hip Hop" by those who invented it, not by some white outsider.