Steph entered the NBA in 09.. Bron 03 they both have 4 rings

2legit

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Lebron's yet to prove he can win anything without stacking the deck.

Steph is a proven winner with and without a superteam. He's also the most defining player of his era.
All of Steph's teams were superteams.

Steph got injured in 2016 during the playoffs. Draymond led the Warriors to a playoff series victory WITHOUT Steph. There is no chance that Kyrie/Love are leading a team to a Playoff Series win without LeBron.
 

Professor Emeritus

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Lebron's yet to prove he can win anything without stacking the deck.

Steph is a proven winner with and without a superteam. He's also the most defining player of his era.


Bron having KCP or JR Smith as his #3 option is "stacking the deck", but Steph with all-stars as his #3 and #4 or a Finals MVP as a bench option is just normal. :laff:

Imagine Shump or Kuzma winning Finals MVP over Bron. :dead:
 

blackestofpanthers

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Bron having KCP or JR Smith as his #3 option is "stacking the deck", but Steph with all-stars as his #3 and #4 or a Finals MVP as a bench option is just normal. :laff:

Imagine Shump or Kuzma winning Finals MVP over Bron. :dead:

Nah this is too much.....KKK.......nah :dead:

But yeah, the Iggy over Steph shyt is lame and if the Dubs were playing any other team besides the Cavs he would've got it.
Ku Klutch Klan at it again. Look at this guy really use iggy as finals mvp as a talking point. @10bandz 😂
 

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Ku Klutch Klan at it again. Look at this guy really use iggy as finals mvp as a talking point. @10bandz 😂

Do you even know what the conversation is?


At 28, Iggy was one of the top two-way perimeter players in the league, an all-star and the #1 for a ECSF Sixers team.

At 29, Iggy was putting up 18-8-5 on elite shooting with great defense as Denver's best player in the playoffs.

At 31, Iggy was winning Finals MVP with 16-5-5 on elite shooting and series-saving defense.


But somehow having a player like that as your 5th option isn't a stacked team?
 

murksiderock

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This isn't reimagining

The Warriors literally played better with Curry and KD off than with KD on and Curry odd :dead:

Real time the sentiment wasn't that universal - plenty of people still viewed that as Steph's team. The offense ran through Steph... the same way the Lakers ran through Shaq.

What "alpha"/true number 1 doesn't even have their team's offense run through him?

It's not up for debate. KD himself literally jokingly called himself the servant for a reason - it was still Steph's offense. KD was meant to replace Harrison Barne's role of being a 2 way scoring wing... a role that Wiggins then replaced.

If Wiggins were to averaged 26 this finals and won Finals MVP... would that make Wiggins the number 1 option?

Like cmon cuz, this isn't even hating on KD. KD literally want their because of the offense they ran - they didn't rebuild it around him, they just plugged him in. At worst it's an even between the two

You keep talking about the numbers, KD's numbers have never been the crux of my argument...

The Warriors lost the '16 Finals, in large part because Steph was bad. Durant comes and in returning to The Finals vs the same opponent, the hype was on Durant measuring up to LeBron---->not Steph...

Those '17 Dubs being considered arguably the greatest team ever is because of the sentiment of adding Durant. They lost the previous year without him...

They doubled back in '18 and once again Durant was viewed as the one who put them over the top. Not that they rebuilt the offense around him. Not that it was his team. That he was their best player. He put GS over the top...

'19 comes and Durant began the postseason on an All-Time binge, there was anticipation for him and Kawhi meeting because Kawhi also began the exact same postseason on an All-Time binger. Nobody at any of these points was speaking of Steph in this tone; "Steph on a heater, boy what will it look like when he meets Kawhi"?

It was about Durant...

Durant gets hurt, Warriors coast to The Finals but his absence in the first three games was magnified, Steph wasn't great and the idea was revisited every single day that GS needed KD to win the title...

He played the equivalent of one quarter in G4 and was far and away the best player on the floor, complete control and domination, then his shyt snapped...

Predictably GS lost and Steph wasn't strong enough to shoulder that burden...

We aren't talking about anything other than THE THREE YEARS STEPH AND DURANT PLAYED TOGETHER...

Was it a universal sentiment? No but there was a consensus that Durant was their best player. That's how majority of heads watching that team in the actual moment saw those Warriors...

It was always Steph's team. They were better on/off with Steph than KD. They maximized their Championship output those three years with Durant though...

And no if Wiggins won FMVP it wouldn't have made him '22 GS vest player but you've also never heard me use FMVPs as a talking point...

Steph's had a better career and will likely go down as a higher ranked player if nothing changes on KD's end. But I'm not with this changing of history just for the fukk of it. Their three years together were viewed the way they were. We don't get to change that because of some shyt after the fact, again this is that Kobe/Shaq shyt Kobe heads like to do...
 
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You always say shyt like that when you have no argument.

Shaq dominated three straight Finals for the Lakers. Pau outplayed Dwight and Garnett in back-to-back Finals. THAT is why the Lakers won in the 2000s where the Boobie-Mo Cavs could not.

Sccit claims that Kobe's missed shots magically help his team more than Bron's made shots. That's pure delusion, sorry.

game 4.. 2001. .. 48pts 16reb @ 22yrold
 
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Killer Instinct

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Ku Klutch Klan

54fbdb4c59292f9b94fab1732a651586.gif
 

Trojan 24

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Kobe stans in this thread hurt. Didn’t know this thread was about him. Y’all need to worry about curry passing Kobe on on the all time list

Steph can have it breh, he the GOAT since Jordan. Transformed a franchise, crafted a legacy with his team and changed the way the game is played. Pray he don't get 5 :mjlol:
 

KidJSoul

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You keep talking about the numbers, KD's numbers have never been the crux of my argument...

The Warriors lost the '16 Finals, in large part because Steph was bad. Durant comes and in returning to The Finals vs the same opponent, the hype was on Durant measuring up to LeBron---->not Steph...

Those '17 Dubs being considered arguably the greatest team ever is because of the sentiment of adding Durant. They lost the previous year without him...

They doubled back in '18 and once again Durant was viewed as the one who put them over the top. Not that they rebuilt the offense around him. Not that it was his team. That he was their best player. He put GS over the top...

'19 comes and Durant began the postseason on an All-Time binge, there was anticipation for him and Kawhi meeting because Kawhi also began the exact same postseason on an All-Time binger. Nobody at any of these points was speaking of Steph in this tone; "Steph on a heater, boy what will it look like when he meets Kawhi"?

It was about Durant...

Durant gets hurt, Warriors coast to The Finals but his absence in the first three games was magnified, Steph wasn't great and the idea was revisited every single day that GS needed KD to win the title...

He played the equivalent of one quarter in G4 and was far and away the best player on the floor, complete control and domination, then his shyt snapped...

Predictably GS lost and Steph wasn't strong enough to shoulder that burden...

We aren't talking about anything other than THE THREE YEARS STEPH AND DURANT PLAYED TOGETHER...

Was it a universal sentiment? No but there was a consensus that Durant was their best player. That's how majority of heads watching that team in the actual moment saw those Warriors...

It was always Steph's team. They were better on/off with Steph than KD. They maximized their Championship output those three years with Durant though...

And no if Wiggins won FMVP it wouldn't have made him '22 GS vest player but you've also never heard me use FMVPs as a talking point...

Steph's had a better career and will likely go down as a higher ranked player if nothing changes on KD's end. But I'm not with this changing of history just for the fukk of it. Their three years together were viewed the way they were. We don't get to change that because of some shyt after the fact, again this is that Kobe/Shaq shyt Kobe heads like to do...
Nah fan don't accuse me of changing history

During those finals, the narrative was "lebron vs the Warriors superteam" way more than it was lebron vs Durant.

Everyone knew Lebron was outmatched because he was going up against BOTH Durant and Curry

Obviously there were some people who viewed Durant as the best player in the world and pointed out possessions where he was 1 on 1 against Lebron... but most people still knew to qualify it by bringing up the fact that Durant had Curry AND Green backing him up. When they won in 2017, Mike Breen asked if Durant and Curry were the best DUO ever. Scottie Pippen praised Steph for being willing to ingratiate KD in with the team.


You're saying KD put them over the top and steph lost in 2016 and 2019... dude there's a reason EVERYONE called it a bytch move. The Warriors already won a chip in 2015, and narrowly lost in game 7 in 2016, and were favorites to win even BEFORE they signed Durant. Durant just made it EASY for them to win, since he was an MVP getting slotted in to a 3rd option's scoring role (Harrison Barnes). Curry losing in 2016 doesn't change that. People lose, it happens. Lebron lost a Finals before.

So you agree FMVP isn't a great metric. (otherwise Tim Duncan should get this same criticism). And you agree ppg isn't that good either (again, Tim Duncan and also Bird would get this treatment).

And you agree it was Steph's team. And that the on off numbers were better.

So there's not much to argue, espeically with how even Ty Lue himself has said that the cavs gameplan was to stop Steph - because he's the most dangerous player in the league (someone else posted it a page or 2 ago).

Every true #1 player is usually gonna be the focus of the other team's gameplan. Shaq was the focus when team's played against the Lakers. Lebron was the focus when team's played against the Cavs and Heat. Kobe was the focus in the 08-10 finals (which is why I don't shyt on him for his numbers those years).


I can't force you to change your opinion of course, and that's fine :manny:

But I think as time goes on, if Durant doesn't win again, and God forbid if Steph DOES WIN another, it'll be hard to view Durant as ever being that guy considering what we already know
 
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Osmosis

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Lebron's yet to prove he can win anything without stacking the deck.

Steph is a proven winner with and without a superteam. He's also the most defining player of his era.
OK NobodytouchesJordan :mjlol: Jordan won one playoff game in his five seasons without Pippen and the Bulls were a 55 win team with three all-stars in the season after he quit. That's the epitome of a stacked deck.

Kobe stans in this thread hurt. Didn’t know this thread was about him. Y’all need to worry about curry passing Kobe on on the all time list
Funny thing is this thread could be made about Kobe and Duncan with more accuracy. Duncan came in the league after Kobe and tied him in championships and surpassed him in both MVPs and FMVPs. But everyone knows Duncan is better than Kobe so no point in having that discussion.

They have to disingenuously cling to Curry knowing that Curry had to give KD the keys to his squad in order to beat Lebron.
 

Professor Emeritus

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game 4.. 2001. .. 48pts 16reb @ 22yrold



Blowout win in the fourth game of an easy four-game sweep and you want to pretend that was the critical game in the postseason. :dead:

You couldn't pick a less meaningful playoff game. The Spurs had given up already. Antonio Daniels was Kobe's primary defender AND the #2 option on offense for the Spurs. Every other year he was a 7th man. Losing their best two perimeter players and David Robinson being turned into scrub status by Shaq had already sealed the Spurs' fate. That was their worst roster of any point from 1998-2018.
 
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