State your unpopular comic book character opinion

[Bigbigguy]

I hear what you are saying bruh


Its just... I been reading comics for almost 30 years, you hear all kind of ideas on a book, but they rarely get supported and the only way to keep a certain type of book going is to support it. Everyone raves about Chistopher Priest's Black Panther (and several of his books like The Crew) but nobody was buying that shyt (except me :-/ ) and it didn't last. What we need is to start financially supporting these projects just to open a door to get more of them.

Exactly. People keep saying put a black writer on BP but lets be real he needs an A-list writer for his stuff to sell and we don't currently have any black one's unfortunately. The people that bytch about stuff like this won't end up supporting the product.

Moon Knight wouldn't have sold the what it did if Ellis didn't launch it and I'm sure Doctor Strange will launch strong with Aaron on it (Doctor Strange sold worse than BP over the years btw)

 

[Bigbigguy]

Completely disagree and I'm african. A lot of writers, a lot of them were non-black, have treated him no differently than a Luke cage, war machine, or falcon: relegated to the background and taking L's.

Yes, there have been non-black writers who wrote him well, and whoever is the next writer should be the best available that is willing to write him in a respectful and knowledgable manner, regardless of the writer's race. But to say the black writer thing doesn't apply to BP, I disagree.

Btw, just cuz the writer is black, doesn't mean he/she will be African-American. He/She could be african, Caribbean, etc.

He was only ever taking L's in Roy Thomas and Shooter's Avengers. Other writers since then have written well.

He was written well when he was briefly with the Defenders, In Busiek's Avengers, Geoff Johns Avengers and Hickman's Avengers.

 

[Birnin Zana]

I hear what you are saying bruh


Its just... I been reading comics for almost 30 years, you hear all kind of ideas on a book, but they rarely get supported and the only way to keep a certain type of book going is to support it. Everyone raves about Chistopher Priest's Black Panther (and several of his books like The Crew) but nobody was buying that shyt (except me :-/ ) and it didn't last. What we need is to start financially supporting these projects just to open a door to get more of them.

If the upcoming book is good, I'll def buy it as well.

The priest book situation is an interesting one. People are dikkriding the book now, yet, like you said, comic book readers werent supporting this "awesome" character they now claim BP is. Weird shyt, imo.

 

[Birnin Zana]

He was only ever taking L's in Roy Thomas and Shooter's Avengers. Other writers since then have written well.

He was written well when he was briefly with the Defenders, In Busiek's Avengers, Geoff Johns Avengers and Hickman's Avengers.

I did say he has been well before by white / non-black writers. We agree.

The defenders though? The one from not long ago? Didn't he die real early into the story? Like real early? That's an L to me.

And it's not just Roy Thomas or shooter's Avengers, we still have the doom wars and AvX, etc. the age of ultron with Bendis (dying by breaking his neck in a fall? Really) and I like hickman's writing but he made BP take bizarre L's.

Considering what kind of book @Moose_Greyjoy is hoping to get, I don't blame him for wanting a competent black writer to pen it.

 

[Moose_Greyjoy]

Exactly. People keep saying put a black writer on BP but lets be real he needs an A-list writer for his stuff to sell and we don't currently have any black one's unfortunately. The people that bytch about stuff like this won't end up supporting the product.

Moon Knight wouldn't have sold the what it did if Ellis didn't launch it and I'm sure Doctor Strange will launch strong with Aaron on it (Doctor Strange sold worse than BP over the years btw)

And this is when reality kicks in

One day a Black writer name will be considered A list one day..............

 

[Bigbigguy]

I did say he has been well before by white / non-black writers. We agree.

The defenders though? The one from not long ago? Didn't he die real early into the story? Like real early? That's an L to me.

And it's not just Roy Thomas or shooter's Avengers, we still have the doom wars and AvX, etc. the age of ultron with Bendis (dying by breaking his neck in a fall? Really) and I like hickman's writing but he made BP take bizarre L's.

Considering what kind of book @Moose_Greyjoy is hoping to get, I don't blame him for wanting a competent black writer to pen it.

Doomwar was poorly written but a bunch of characters were also written poorly in AvX and Age of Ultron

The whole illuminati except Reed took L's in New Avengers it wasn't just T'challa who IMO had the best character development in the book.

The Defenders I was talking about was in the 80's

 

[Birnin Zana]

Exactly. People keep saying put a black writer on BP but lets be real he needs an A-list writer for his stuff to sell and we don't currently have any black one's unfortunately. The people that bytch about stuff like this won't end up supporting the product.

Moon Knight wouldn't have sold the what it did if Ellis didn't launch it and I'm sure Doctor Strange will launch strong with Aaron on it (Doctor Strange sold worse than BP over the years btw)

The A-lister thing will help, but what BP needs is a great story with a good premise that gets a marketing push for traditional and non-traditional comic book readers. Too many traditional comic book readers low key have a bias concerning black panther, hence he doesn't sell well.

Priest had a great story and premise that was relegated to its own little corner. He tried several things, some of them gimmicky in his own admission, and it still didn't help with sales, despite the good reviews. The traditional comic book readership wasn't fukking with it like that.

Panther's best-selling run, the Hudlin run, basically treated the traditional comic book readership as secondary to some degree, hence the retcons, the lack of continuity in many cases, and so yet. Yet it sold well despite the many complaints and pushed BP's profile.

If Marvel can get a great creative team, while marketing the book both in and outside of its usual areas, sales will be good.

 

[GPBear]

Namor the Submariner shouuld have a movie where it's like Red Dawn and shyt.

Underwater terrorist submarines, and then the king of Atlantis has to blow shyt up

Michael Bay in the Ocean, but not The Abyss.

 

[Birnin Zana]

And this is when reality kicks in

One day a Black writer name will be considered A list one day..............

Then you'll have to wait for a looonnnnnnnng time breh, If that's what it takes for a black writer to write a successful BP book. I rather not. If the guy is a great writer with a great story for the book, give him or her a chance. If he or she happens to be black, so be it.

 

[Bigbigguy]

The A-lister thing will help, but what BP needs is a great story with a good premise that gets a marketing push for traditional and non-traditional comic book readers. Too many traditional comic book readers low key have a bias concerning black panther, hence he doesn't sell well.

Priest had a great story and premise that was relegated to its own little corner. He tried several things, some of them gimmicky in his own admission, and it still didn't help with sales, despite the good reviews. The traditional comic book readership wasn't fukking with it like that.

Panther's best-selling run, the Hudlin run, basically treated the traditional comic book readership as secondary to some degree, hence the retcons, the lack of continuity in many cases, and so yet. Yet it sold well despite the many complaints and pushed BP's profile.

If Marvel can get a great creative team, while marketing the book both in and outside of its usual areas, sales will be good.

Hudlin's run selling more than Priest's is actually a myth look up the stats differences on comichron.com

A good story can only get you so far in comics its the A-list talents that actually sell books.

 

[Dirty Mcdrawz]

damian is the 2nd best robin

dikk grayson should have stayed batman for longer

batman r.i.p was horrible

image and the smaller indie creator owner stuff is a lot better than dc and marvel constant retcons and cross over major event filled bullshyt.

capt. america is just as big a dikk as tony

dc has the best villians

marvel doesn't have any heroes that are as iconic as superman or batman

 

[Birnin Zana]

Hudlin's run selling more than Priest's is actually a myth look up the stats differences on comichron.com

A good story can only get you so far in comics its the A-list talents that actually sell books.

Checked the numbers. If I'm off somewhere, please let me know.

Priest's run was two years longer and thus had a lot more issues published. Priest had 62 BP issues, while Hudlin had 48 issues.

If you compare Priest's issues 1-48 to all of Hudlin's 48 issues, Hudlin outsells him by 300K.

Priest = 1.4 mil copies

Hudlin = 1.7 mil copies

For Priest to outsell Hudlin, you have to include both Issues 49-62 AND The Crew, which was 7 issues, and even then, he only outsells Hudlin by 90k. By Issue #25, Priest's BP sales never went above 23K. Meanwhile The Crew dipped below 20k after issue #3.

Hudlin also has the three highest selling books, and he's tied with Priest on the 4th highest selling book.

Despite all the criticism Hudlin's run received (and quite a few were legit criticisms) Hudlin's run was very successful considering its length. Meanwhile, Priest, despite possibly a better story and most likely better overall writing, wasn't able to turn the tide around, and quite frankly thats a shame. The latter more or less tried to appease to the traditional comic book audience, while the former more or less did his own thing despite a lot of criticism from a lot of the traditional comic book readership, and he reaped the benefits.

The numbers also show that:

1. You don't need an A-List writer to have a successful run. It definitely helps, no question, but its not necessary. Good story, strong creative team, and good, strategic marketing can make it happen.

2. Disregarding those who didn't know about the Priest run at the time, most comic book readers who are praising the book today probably weren't supporting his book back then, which says a lot.

 

[Bigbigguy]

Checked the numbers. If I'm off somewhere, please let me know.

Priest's run was two years longer and thus had a lot more issues published. Priest had 62 BP issues, while Hudlin had 48 issues.

If you compare Priest's issues 1-48 to all of Hudlin's 48 issues, Hudlin outsells him by 300K.

Priest = 1.4 mil copies

Hudlin = 1.7 mil copies

For Priest to outsell Hudlin, you have to include both Issues 49-62 AND The Crew, which was 7 issues, and even then, he only outsells Hudlin by 90k. By Issue #25, Priest's BP sales never went above 23K. Meanwhile The Crew dipped below 20k after issue #3.

Hudlin also has the three highest selling books, and he's tied with Priest on the 4th highest selling book.

Despite all the criticism Hudlin's run received (and quite a few were legit criticisms) Hudlin's run was very successful considering its length. Meanwhile, Priest, despite possibly a better story and most likely better overall writing, wasn't able to turn the tide around, and quite frankly thats a shame. The latter more or less tried to appease to the traditional comic book audience, while the former more or less did his own thing despite a lot of criticism from a lot of the traditional comic book readership, and he reaped the benefits.

The numbers also show that:

1. You don't need an A-List writer to have a successful run. It definitely helps, no question, but its not necessary. Good story, strong creative team, and good, strategic marketing can make it happen.

2. Disregarding those who didn't know about the Priest run at the time, most comic book readers who are praising the book today probably weren't supporting his book back then, which says a lot.

Hudlin didn't even write 48 issues of BP. The Secret Invasion arc was written by Jason Aaron.

Priest's run was also not tieing into events and wasn't doing marriage stunts like Hudlin (Those were the highest selling issues of his run)

The Hudlin numbers you included tied into House of M, Civil War, Marvel Zombies, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign. If you remove all the artificial inflation it outsold Hudlin's by a large margin.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Hudlin didn't even write 48 issues of BP. The Secret Invasion arc was written by Jason Aaron.

Priest's run was also not tieing into events and wasn't doing marriage stunts like Hudlin (Those were the highest selling issues of his run)

The Hudlin numbers you included tied into House of M, Civil War, Marvel Zombies, Secret Invasion and Dark Reign. If you remove all the artificial inflation it outsold Hudlin's by a large margin.

I'm aware that Aaron wrote Secret invasion, thought it was labeled differently. My numbers do not include any of the dark reign / Power issues written by Mayberry, I stopped at deadliest of the species, the last arc Hudlin wrote. I included BP issues written only by Hudlin.

In all, Hudlin had 45 issues, not counting Secret Invasion. The Secret invasion tie ins are BP #39-41. If you remove those three issues, and keep Priest at his first 48 issues like in my previous post, Hudlin is still up by almost 200k.

Yes, the Hudlin numbers include the tie ins (not including Secret Invasion), they are part of the Hudlin run, they are BP issues written by him. Those issues have been a major source of praise and especially criticism he received. If he can get criticized for his writing in those issues, it's only fair to count the tie-ins. I would do the same for Priest or any other writer. And clearly, it's a very good idea for BP to have tie ins in events, they worked. And the marriage, regardless of how gimmicky it was, worked as well.

Priest also had some gimmicks too, to a lesser degree: Everett Ross (to appeal to the white readership), Kasper Cole, etc. Priest was able to integrate them nicely into the BP universe, a testament of his writing skills, but they are what they are.

All in all, my point from my previous post still stands.

 

[Return of the Jedi]

Nikkas need to realize that Batman beats Superman because at the very end of the day, Superman doesn't WANT to beat Batman's ass. He doesn't WANT to hurt Batman, no matter what (at least in most continuities that I've read) because at the end of the day? Deep down Superman is a GOOD DUDE who doesn't kill anybody and won't go through that one on one street fight shyt with his homie - but Batman will.

The Bat doesn't kill bruh. Nolan's janky moments at the end of BB/DK don't count.