Star Wars The Force Awakens [SPOILERS] Thread: SPOILERS

Rain

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That official thread is getting ran over with spoilers. Didn't see a spoiler thread so I figured it's best to create one now. No need to tag spoilers in here.

Last night I thought Rey captured the Force too quickly (still do in a way), but the more I think about it, the more I realize we know essentially NOTHING about her backstory. That'll be explained in the next one so it'll be interesting what training she may have gotten before. There's a reason she's carrying that staff around too :patrice:

She could already have been trained and just forgot it. :jbhmm:
 
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Black Magisterialness

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reposting from the last thread to keep the convo going....

















@Ziggiy

Everybody mad at Finn calling him a side kick, mean while the entire movie doesn't happen if he doesn't save Poe. Then he sits in the iconic gunners chair, he comes up with the entire plan to save Rey and destroy Starkiller Base. Seriously, think about this. You wouldn't dare call Han or Leia sidekicks they are deuteragonist. Dude next to Han is unknowingly the most heroic of all of them. Finn save a political prisoner, fights off TIE fighters, smuggles a droid back to the Resistance, sneaks into a planet wide death star and takes on a Sith in training not even knowing if he's Force Sensitive or not. Literally, because dude had some funny lines (like Han didn't) nikkas go into the "OH HERE WE GO AGAIN COURT JESTER shyt". And i'm one to point stuff out like that in films but seriously the whole film begins on the premise that Finn says to himself "i'm not going to kill innocent people even though that's what i was trained and raised to do". Like for real, i think ya'll get so caught up that you for get how good of a character that Finn is. Dude trumps Rey in terms of enjoy-ability totally. He, Han and Kylo made the film extra dope.



Oh and it's totally clear that Rey is a Skywalker.








@Rekkapryde @Jmare007


She became aware of her force-sensitivity when she touched the lightsaber, then again as she was being tortured by Kylo Ren. She saw into his mind just as much as he saw into hers. It would not be a stretch to assume that she became more aware of the force. And also the Jedi Mind Trick is really well known even among non-force users. If there was one thing that would persist in their myth that would be that. So coupled with being exposed to high levels of the Force in 24 hours, plus her knowledge of Jedi myths and perhaps even a power awakening/exhange between her and Kylo its not crazy for her to do that at that time.



sidebar....the stormtrooper she tricked is actually Daniel Craig in cameo. :russ:
 

Rain

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sidebar....the stormtrooper she tricked is actually Daniel Craig in cameo. :russ:
Rey: You will remove these restraints and leave this room with the door open :birdman:

Stormtrooper: What did you say? :what:

Rey: You will remove these restraints and leave this room with with the door open?:patrice:

Stormtrooper:...I'll make those restraints tighter :martin:

Rey: You will remove these restraints and leave this room with the door open...:whoa:

Stormtrooper:...Ok...:ld:

Rey: And you will drop your weapon

Stormtrooper: And I will drop my weapon :mjcry:

:deadrose:
 
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Rekkapryde

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I will add spoilers later, but my initial viewing is that it is worthy to hang with the OT and leagues more coherent than the PT.

This is what fans of SW have been saying all along, give the actors some direction with script and focus less on cgi-effects and the story would be great. JJ handled the property fantastically.

The interactions between characters were organic and not forced, Finn, Rey, Poe, B88, Chewie, Han, all held it down. Perfect casting for Kylo Ren as he delivered a great performance and probably would have been a better Anakin imho than Christensen.... Though we aren't far off if we pay attention to the story. The comedic timing was perfect as can be, almost the same level of dark humor that was present in the OT.

The score was very underwhelming and relied on old themes to carry the film, though understandably Williams is over 80+ years old.

Initial Score: 4/5

yeah, John definitively let me down on the score. Was hoping for another theme in the spirit of this shyt.

 

Mike Otherz

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my 2 posts from the other thread.

YESSIR. You have the same beef as me. Fin was like i said, space django, except in this case he didnt even come into his own at the end. still getting his ass whooped by cacs.. that shyt dissapointed the hell outta me. this was my most anticipated movie of the year bar none. and i was ready to leave halfway through cause that dude was either a happy negro early on, over doing the whooping and hollering, and absolutely useless in the rest of the film. and that white girl constantly saving his ass and telling him how to do shyt shyt, man, i was disgusted. if i see yet another "oooh look, the girl is so independent and is saving shyt and a natural leader” i was finna scream. how the fuk was she telling han solo about his own damn spaceship and how to operate it. ridicolous. man, like you said, just stop putting black men in film if this is how you gonna be treating us.


anyway some positives, oscar issac killed his role. great actor. harrison ford was dope. i even felt some emotion for bb8. and adm driver was good as well. as well as dominic gleeson. those 4 i was happy with. wasnt even happy with lupita. yet another wise black woman trope helping cacs to find themselves ( even though she looks like an alien)


and

spoiler, ahead, u been warned:

smh. this film was trash. surprised at how much i didnt like it. wasnt bad wasnt good either. they did my man john boyega wrong. had him looking like space django, not knowing how to do shyt. everyone else having to rescue his ass. did he even do anything of merit other than be scared and hopeless. not his fault, its jj abrams fault. as for the chick. thats what happens when feminist culture takes over everything. shyt was star wars for females. nothing agaist that but was not my cupof tea. chick knew everything, was correcting everyone, whooping the bad guys, flying space ships, whoping the bad guy after tha bad guy gave boyega that ass whooping . smh. they emasculated my nikka john boyega. wont be seeing the next 2 since its clear what the agenda is.
 

Da Rhythm Rebel

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Was anybody disappointed at how weak-minded Kylo was?
And...are there any hints to who the Wizard of Oz nikka is? He was:scust:after he found out Kylo didnt complete the mission for the map :russ:


i think that was all by design, as clearly Leia believs(ed) he could be turned back to good

plus Snoke mentioned he needed to complete his training. Clear that he was teetering between light/dark

conversely if Rey finished him off, that would have thrust her to the Dark Side.
 

Black Magisterialness

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you serious? :skip:

yup

Daniel Craig's 'Star Wars' cameo revealed

Was anybody disappointed at how weak-minded Kylo was?
And...are there any hints to who the Wizard of Oz nikka is? He was:scust:after he found out Kylo didnt complete the mission for the map :russ:

Kylo isn't weak minded he is still raw in the force. Even look at his fighting style, its all power, all emotion and wild. Dude has no refinement, but and immense upside. Dude wants to be a good guy but he wants power more. So he's reluctantly being Snoke's disciple because he driven by being stronger than his granddad. Remember he's conflicted. Unlike Hayden, Adam Driver captured someone in transition to the dark side much better. Vader turned over the course of a film, Kylo turned and is still struggling with it, and he thinks killing Han will be the thing that finally pushes him over the edge, the most difficult thing he can do. Dude is far from weak minded I think....i think dude literally has fukking problems...deep rooted emotional problems.

If he was seeing into the minds of people, aint no telling if he came into contact with some sith relic while he was training with Luke that tempted him to side with Snoke. I'm more excited for his maturation than Finn or Rey's.

The New generation has their Vader...he's not as cool or as menacing as Vader...but he unstable and I can see him becoming jsut as dangerous...Dude was stopping BLASTER BOLTS and freezing people in their tracks....not even Vader was doing that shyt. :damn:
 

doublex

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awful movie

I'd be much happier if they called it a remake/reboot of a new hope

you idiots eating this lazy shyt up are allowing hollywood to take the easy route on movies

hate the prequels all you want at least they didn't give you the exact same movie


I'm disappointed they tricked my ass in regards to Finn.

They obviously marketed him with the lightsaber so that we would go into the theater expecting to see the first Disney movie with a black hero.

Instead, we get the first Star Wars movie with a white female hero, the 1,000,000,000th Disney movie with a white female hero.

I'm hurt. They could have at least given him something, like Han in the OT.

Han had the Millenium Falcon, he had Chewie, he had Leia's love, and he had swagger. He was a deuteragonist in the OT, but Luke didn't overshadow him at every turn.

With the ST on the other hand, Rey is a genius-level mechanic, a better pilot than Han on her first try, a stronger jedi than Luke on her first try, and is a better fighter than Finn armed with nothing more than a stick.

Finn, on the other hand, is a character whose strongest impression on the audience is that he makes them laugh. Not exactly a pioneering role for a black character. In the end, he is left with nothing to do but lapse into a coma. At least Han saved Luke's life in the OT, first when they were destroying the Death Star in ANH, then on Hoth in ESB. Finn's failed attempts to save Rey are actually played as a running joke in TFA. Like 'ha, ha, joke's on you, Rey is too awesome to need saving by the likes of you'. That shyt is so annoying, and does nothing to endear me to her character.

At this point, I don't even want to reward Disney's deceptive marketing by paying to see the next movie. And I feel like it's going to be even worse than this one for Finn, a Peeta/Katniss situation where he pines hopelessly after the jedi girl while she treats him like a beloved pet.

I'm a woman btw so don't accuse me of being sexist for not liking Mary Sues.
 
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Jmare007

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@Rekkapryde @Jmare007


She became aware of her force-sensitivity when she touched the lightsaber, then again as she was being tortured by Kylo Ren. She saw into his mind just as much as he saw into hers. It would not be a stretch to assume that she became more aware of the force. And also the Jedi Mind Trick is really well known even among non-force users. If there was one thing that would persist in their myth that would be that. So coupled with being exposed to high levels of the Force in 24 hours, plus her knowledge of Jedi myths and perhaps even a power awakening/exhange between her and Kylo its not crazy for her to do that at that time.



sidebar....the stormtrooper she tricked is actually Daniel Craig in cameo. :russ:

That's too much assumption for my liking :leostare: I think they could've done a better job in that scene besides a Jedi Mind Trick out of nowhere :manny:

:dead: if that was actually Craig

Was anybody disappointed at how weak-minded Kylo was?
And...are there any hints to who the Wizard of Oz nikka is? He was:scust:after he found out Kylo didnt complete the mission for the map :russ:

I wasn't disappointed with Kylo in the sense that we are told why he's not on THAT level yet. I was more disappointed that there wasn't another villain worth a shyt.

As I said in a previous post. General Hux was by far the most interesting character from the First Order, but most of what happens escapes his influence/power. I hope we see more from him.

Phasma was a fukking joke and completely unnecesary to the story, they just wanted to sell a new type of stormtrooper toy :pachaha:

Snoke was too ambiguous to make him menacing. That's fine because we will see more from him in the coming movies but man, I wanted a more menacing villain and we didn't get it. I'm kinda confident we'll get one in Episode VIII though, Kylo gonna be more fukked up in the head and fallen deeper to the Dark Side and Snoke will be more prominent so I can give the TFA a pass :manny:
 

Drew Wonder

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What I wrote in the other thread:

They followed the template of a New Hope where they threw us into a conflict that had already begun without really explaining things. Difference between this and A New Hope was that ANH was so good at world-building that we had a better understanding of everything. It gave us just enough information for us to understand who everyone was and what the stakes were and the pacing was perfect. Force Awakens was lazy in that regard imo and the pacing was off, just seemed rushed. Should've had more scenes where we saw the inner workings of the First Order as well as the Republic. Just seemed like a lot of scenes were cut and I feel like it would've been stronger if the movie was longer.

JJ Abrams was too JJ Abramsy with the vague references and no explanations.

Rey was a confusing character. I understand they wanna add mystery regarding her origins but they're so caught up in doing this that it weakens her character and it makes it hard for the audience to relate to her struggle and motivations because we have no idea where they're coming from. We're not emotionally invested in her fear of leaving Jakku because the film never bothers to explain how she got there and what connection she has to it. It's obvious that she's extremely capable at just about everything (being a pilot, being a Jedi, etc) which makes her fear and reluctance all the more confusing

Finn's character was a mess, just kept changing his persona and motivations. First he's a coward, then he's a hero, then he's a coward again. First he's capable of holding his own then he's a damsel in distress. Seems like Abrams couldn't decide to make him a capable hero or a Jar Jar Binks sidekick in constant need of saving. If you're gonna make him a weakling then don't have him go toe to toe with a dude who was trained by Luke. If you're gonna make him a badass then don't have him lose a fight to a stormtrooper or act shocked whenever he happens to shoot down a tie fighter.

Poe was good, but underused. With how badly they messed up the character of Finn I'd honestly rather Poe have taken up his screentime. They both pretty much fulfilled the same purpose when it came to how they served the plot and story

Kylo was the best new character, I like how they made him angry and emotional as opposed to the emotionally detached Darth Vader(something different, finally) I didn't mind him not being as powerful as other Sith in the other films considering the fact that he was basically starting a new order of Jedi and had way less experience

Snoke was a waste to me. Have no clue who he is and he wasn't compelling enough for me to care.

Han was great, but everything great about him aside from Ford's performance was because of our prior knowledge of him. Again, lazy filmmaking by Abrams

Had mixed feelings about Kylo killing Han. Ballsy move but since I knew next to nothing about how their relationship was or why Ren turned it didn't really have the emotional impact that it could have

Honestly, this movie felt like the 2nd movie in a trilogy, rather than the first. Just so much backstory that wasn't fully explained and a lot of telling rather than showing(the whole scene with Leia talking about Kylo to Han was bad, lazy writing) I feel like showing Kylo Ren's turn to the dark side and his conflict with Luke as well as the actual rise of the First Order would've made for a much more compelling movie than this

Movie relied too much on nostalgia and wasn't confident enough in its own story and characters to give us anything innovative. Yeah, the prequels sucked but at least Lucas was actually trying something different with the tone and overall feel. This was pretty much a carbon copy of A New Hope.

The things that were good were the things that I expected to be good, the dialogue, acting and the action. That was a given. The characters actually sounded like real people unlike the prequels and the humor, for the most part, wasn't too corny or forced. I just wish there was a better story to go along with it.

People are really excited right now to see a newStar Wars movie that plays on their nostalgia. But once that settles down I think you'll start to see more and more people who didn't really like this movie and the backlash, while not as intense as the Phantom Menace, will still be prominent. Right now I'd rate this a B-. Could go up or down depending on how well it holds up on repeated viewings. But as of now I'm pretty disappointed
 

Drew Wonder

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Convo between me and another poster

World building in ANH? HAHAHA. Sorry, but that movie was vague and never explained anything. That is one of the big criticisms(and points of praise) for ANH. Lots of purposeful mystery. J.J. mentioned in several interviewed that he wanted to just go in and have everything tidy and explained, but was reminded by Kasdan and his study of Lucas that the audience needed to be trusted. We knew nothing about Dantoine, Yavin IV. Not really much about the Death Star. Pacing in ANH? The movie that almost every criticism complains about how slow the middle 3rd of the movie is? The Empire was left pretty vague. We've learned more in 2 seasons of Rebels than we ever knew in the OT. And I love the OT.

I'm confused about what you mean with Rey. She's no different than Anakin. You don't need to see how she got to Jakku to understand her motivations. We see in the vision that she is left with the big dude crying while someone goes away. As miserable as it is on Jakku, she feels like the best way to find her family is to wait for them. This is a plot often used (and in real life) where children and even dogs wait in one spot, fearing if they leave, they will miss out on who left them. That's her connection. That's her reluctance. No different than Anakin fearing leaving his mother despite all the fearlessness and ability to fix, fly, fight or whatever.

I'm in total disagreement with Finn. Finn made this movie move. His motivation was to get as far away from the First Order as he could. Once he met and liked Rey, he wanted her to come with him. Dude was even just going to leave without her. I'm surprised. I didn't feel like he was a sidekick at all. I kept expecting Will Smith in MIB. I was expecting Finn to follow Rey around. He didn't follow her around. He escaped with her. When he had the chance to run, he wanted her to come with him. They found friends (or more) in each other and didn't abandon each other. Sidekicks are Robin. There was no following each other in this movie. Kind of hard to have ever been a sidekick in this. What was the bumbling? Because a monster grabbed him? Dude fought fiercely even when he had no chance. He had skills with a blaster. There was nothing funny, weak or bumbling about the lightsaber fight. The funny thing is, almost all of his scenes were some sort of tribute to a scene with Han or Luke. Sorry, but I'm not on team jobber anymore. Yall are looking hard for something that just wasn't there. Trust me, I went in there with the mean mug, looking for it.

Agree on Kylo. Great character.

If Snoke was a waste, The emperor was a waste in the ANH and Empire. We knew nothing about him or what exactly he was about until ESB. People forget that.

It sounds like you wanted them to explain everything, when J.J. specifically talked about how ANH explicitly did not explain the Star Wars world to us. Listening to a radio broadcast at the theater from a local station, there was a review from a producer that had never seen Star Wars. His review for ANH sounded like your review here. He said nothing was explained. He said, if ANH was a standalone movie it explained nothing or why some of these people were doing things. Then he said he realized these motivations, explanations etc after watching the other two, then further with the prequels. Its funny, he even thought Luke was too vague and where were his parents, etc. Why could Luke fly an X-wing? I'm glad JJ took that route. Nothing more annoying to me than outright explaining everything. Watch The Phantom Menace and notice how they explain every damn thing. Even calling out planet names as they approach and what's going on, on that planet. They even spell out Anakin on his trip to Coruscant and when facing Yoda. On some of the edits they cut out some of that and it makes the movie more natural. A lot of things are explained in casual conversation later on in the trilogy. I actually feel like great care was taken in this regard. Show me instead of just telling me, and you don't necessarily have to tell me now. Tell it in the context of the trilogy. IF this is like the OT, we will learn a lot in the next movie

My response:

Lol its funny, seems like you think I'm overrating a New Hope while underrating TFA, while I think you're underrating ANH to prop up TFA. ANH has some of the best examples of worldbuilding in a sci-fi/fantasy film, in fact that was part of the reason for its huge appeal. The Cantina scene, Vader's scenes with the moffs showing the mentality and inner workings of the Empire. Han Solo's backstory, Luke's life on the farm, etc., all great sequences that established a sense of atmosphere, conflict and lets us know the stakes. And you said it yourself, A New Hope had purposeful mystery, created interest and intrigue without sacrificing story or character motivations. That's where I felt The Force Awakens failed. Yes, there's a lot that's up in the air about Luke but clear motivation and conflict is established for his character (wants to get off Tattooine, finds a father figure in Obi Wan which makes Obi Wan's "death" emotionally impactful. I didn't feel that with TFA, things felt rushed, felt like critical scenes were missing. ANH had much better pacing than TFA, clear story arch, good introduction of characters, and as I said before, stands well enough on its own as a film outside the other films in the trilogy. Slow middle third? Never seen that criticism.

My issue with Rey is that I didn't feel like her conflict matched the character they presented. it felt like they mixed Luke's insecurity in a New Hope with Luke's abilities in Return of the Jedi. Just a weird mix and I never felt consistency with her character. And I didn't feel like her conflict was fleshed out enough for me to find it all that compelling. She never felt like an underdog, and it became more of an issue towards the end when she was already doing Jedi mind tricks and defeating the main villain in a light saber battle after it was previously implied that she thought the Jedi were a myth. Compare that to Luke. He fails multiple times during his training with Yoda, constantly doubts himself, gets his ass whooped by Vader. He goes through this conflict so that when he finally triumphs it feels earned and rewarding. Everything just seemed to come too easy for Rey in this that I just didn't find her story compelling. And the vagueness surrounding her character didn't really help the narrative. That's always been my issue with JJ and his associates(like the dude who wrote Prometheus) Vagueness for the sake of being vague rather than creating genuine mystery and suspense.

Thinking about it more, I was a little too harsh towards Finn, I'll admit that. You make a good point about his motivation. Still feel like JJ didn't really know what to do with his character though. He switches constantly back and forth between comic relief in over his head and brave hero and the effect is pretty jarring. He came across like a badass in the lightsaber fight which was part of my criticism. He does that after struggling against a storm trooper, just didn't come across as consistent.

The Emperor had a sense of dread and mystery to him when we first saw him in Empire. Maybe it was a combination of the design and the dialogue but Snoke didn't really leave me intrigued or particularly interested

I didn't want everything explained and I didn't expect it to be. My issue is that so much of the backstory and things that aren't fleshed out tie into the emotional moments of the film and the main plot (ie. Kylo killing Han and his anger towards him. Imagine how much better this scene would've been if we actually saw Kylo's fall and the relationship he actually had with his father.) I didn't feel like the film did a good enough job on its own of having its own compelling story separate from the rest of the franchise to justify the lack of explanations. A New Hope, imo, did. When Obi Wan mentions the Clone Wars to Luke and Darth Vader "killing" Anakin, I thought, that sounds interesting, but the story I'm watching unfold right now is what's keeping my interest. In TFA, when they talk about the rise of the First Order, the fact that there's a Republic AND a Resistance, the fact that Luke tried to train Kylo and failed, I thought, that sounds interesting AND much more compelling than the story unfolding right now. That's the main difference between the two films imo
 
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