**SPIN**The official Bizarre Qur'an and Hadith Stories Thread

[Type Username Here]

Part of the problem with trying to study history is that viewers from the current era bring their prejudices with them when looking through a historical perspective. Case in point the controversy of whether or not Abraham Lincoln was gay or not. People who believe he was gay point out the fact that he slept in a bed with another man for some time. To us that sounds queer, but it was a common practice during that time, in order to keep warm. Concerning Aisha's age at the time she was married, there is no uniform account. Some people list her age as high as 12 and above. Its a lot easier to hold on to a prejudice belief of something one hears on talk radio, or reads on the internet than it is to seek out information that may conflict with ones prejudices. Lets say for the sake of argument she was 9. The fact of the matter is that as far back as the 1880s, the age of consent in the state of Delaware was 7, and for the majority of the U.S. the age of consent was 10. Children and Youth in History | Age of Consent Laws

I understand the context of the times, but this man supposedly had some link to God. You don't think God could have explained human anatomy and sexual development to his Prophet? He couldn't explain to his Prophet that in the future, sciences would discover the physical and mental issues concerning taking child brides and having sex with pre-pubescent girls?

I mean, we already had one Muslim here say that the Qu'Ran contains "mathematical sophistication and scientific miracles" but I'm supposed to believe God wouldn't take time to address something like this?

You can only give him a pass if you believe him to be a man like every other.

 

[Chris.B]

I understand the context of the times, but this man supposedly had some link to God. You don't think God could have explained human anatomy and sexual development to his Prophet? He couldn't explain to his Prophet that in the future, sciences would discover the physical and mental issues concerning taking child brides and having sex with pre-pubescent girls?

I mean, we already had one Muslim here say that the Qu'Ran contains "mathematical sophistication and scientific miracles" but I'm supposed to believe God wouldn't take time to address something like this?

You can only give him a pass if you believe him to be a man like every other.

 

[FAH1223]

I understand the context of the times, but this man supposedly had some link to God. You don't think God could have explained human anatomy and sexual development to his Prophet? He couldn't explain to his Prophet that in the future, sciences would discover the physical and mental issues concerning taking child brides and having sex with pre-pubescent girls?

I mean, we already had one Muslim here say that the Qu'Ran contains "mathematical sophistication and scientific miracles" but I'm supposed to believe God wouldn't take time to address something like this?

You can only give him a pass if you believe him to be a man like every other.

Aisha was the youngest of his brides, all his other wives weren't reportedly that young... a lot of them were widows in their 20s or 30s who needed protection for obvious reasons in the times.

This brings to light the deficiencies of hadith compilations..
The 6 years old Aisha betrothal and consummation of marriage at 9 years is from Sahiih Bukhari.

But allot of Muslim historians all the way from Al Tabari to Ibn Kathir disagree with this.
In fact, the only source of these very low ages is from Bukhari.

We believe only the Qur'an is infallible.

Sahih Bukhari, Muslim and tirmidhi are all the best efforts of men hundreds of years after the hadiths were uttered. And they were pretty good at what they did, but they were human.
The Muwatta of Imam Malik is the most accurate because Imam Malik grew up in Medina, and lived only 100 years after Hijra.

Balancing the hadith is a delicate one, you can't be extreme and reject them but you can't be blind to every single one. Without hadith, we wouldn't know how to pray in the exact manner that we do. The Qur'an commands us to pray but it goes hand in hand with the hadith on the how tos just for an example.

 

[Type Username Here]

Aisha was the youngest of his brides, all his other wives weren't reportedly that young... a lot of them were widows in their 20s or 30s who needed protection for obvious reasons in the times.

This brings to light the deficiencies of hadith compilations..
The 6 years old Aisha betrothal and consummation of marriage at 9 years is from Sahiih Bukhari.

But allot of Muslim historians all the way from Al Tabari to Ibn Kathir disagree with this.
In fact, the only source of these very low ages is from Bukhari.

We believe only the Qur'an is infallible.

Sahih Bukhari, Muslim and tirmidhi are all the best efforts of men hundreds of years after the hadiths were uttered. And they were pretty good at what they did, but they were human.
The Muwatta of Imam Malik is the most accurate because Imam Malik grew up in Medina, and lived only 100 years after Hijra.

Balancing the hadith is a delicate one, you can't be extreme and reject them but you can't be blind to every single one. Without hadith, we wouldn't know how to pray in the exact manner that we do. The Qur'an commands us to pray but it goes hand in hand with the hadith on the how tos just for an example.

No disrespect, but you keep contradicting yourself. You keep saying that the Qu'Ran is the only text to be follow because it's supposedly the word of God, but you admit that you follow works written by men.

This is where a lot of Islamic credibility on this issue falls apart:

If the hadith shines good light on your religion it is "authentic". That's very convenient, wouldn't you say?

 

[CASHAPP]

Yall see what yours truly started on here?

 

[Sunalmighty]

lil girl must have been terrified every time that old ass n!gga stuck out his ancient tongue

Insane. Suck the tongue of a six year old baby while FASTING? That's supposed to be a time of consecration. What was that old nicca doing, teething?

 

[GetInTheTruck]

Aisha was the youngest of his brides, all his other wives weren't reportedly that young... a lot of them were widows in their 20s or 30s who needed protection for obvious reasons in the times.

This brings to light the deficiencies of hadith compilations..
The 6 years old Aisha betrothal and consummation of marriage at 9 years is from Sahiih Bukhari.

But allot of Muslim historians all the way from Al Tabari to Ibn Kathir disagree with this.
In fact, the only source of these very low ages is from Bukhari.

We believe only the Qur'an is infallible.

Sahih Bukhari, Muslim and tirmidhi are all the best efforts of men hundreds of years after the hadiths were uttered. And they were pretty good at what they did, but they were human.
The Muwatta of Imam Malik is the most accurate because Imam Malik grew up in Medina, and lived only 100 years after Hijra.

Balancing the hadith is a delicate one, you can't be extreme and reject them but you can't be blind to every single one. Without hadith, we wouldn't know how to pray in the exact manner that we do. The Qur'an commands us to pray but it goes hand in hand with the hadith on the how tos just for an example.

I wouldn't waste time bruh, Aisha could have been 9, 19, or 919 it wouldn't matter these dudes would still hate Muhammad

This is obviously a thread for Christians and Atheists to vent their hatred for Islam. The OP is a Christian who was obviously a little flustered when some Muslims were giving him that work in a religious discussion in another thread and this is him lashing out

 

[Chris.B]

I wouldn't waste time bruh, Aisha could have been 9, 19, or 919 it wouldn't matter these dudes would still hate Muhammad

This is obviously a thread for Christians and Atheists to vent their hatred for Islam. The OP is a Christian who was obviously a little flustered when some Muslims were giving him that work in a religious discussion in another thread and this is him lashing out

I won that argument it wasn't even close

 

[Broke Wave]

I understand the context of the times, but this man supposedly had some link to God. You don't think God could have explained human anatomy and sexual development to his Prophet? He couldn't explain to his Prophet that in the future, sciences would discover the physical and mental issues concerning taking child brides and having sex with pre-pubescent girls?

I mean, we already had one Muslim here say that the Qu'Ran contains "mathematical sophistication and scientific miracles" but I'm supposed to believe God wouldn't take time to address something like this?


You can only give him a pass if you believe him to be a man like every other.

That's a central belief in Islam... the Prophet is a Man like any other.

There is a lot of stuff in the Hadith's that we don't consider to be 100% Authentic... but some of the things are undeniable... like another poster said Bukhari and Muslim are basically the most accurate ones but they're narrowed down from like realistic to not really realistic and narrowed down from some that we're considered totally false... there are like 9 books of Hadith. The Hadiths are important in Islam but they are not all authoritative, they are a supplement to the Quran, which is our main book.

Basically anything that contradicts at all with the Quran is supposed to be not Sahih but just a historical story... and not used for religious reasons... not anything that disagrees with secular humanism, there are plenty of things in the Hadiths that disagree with that.

I wouldn't waste time bruh, Aisha could have been 9, 19, or 919 it wouldn't matter these dudes would still hate Muhammad

This is obviously a thread for Christians and Atheists to vent their hatred for Islam. The OP is a Christian who was obviously a little flustered when some Muslims were giving him that work in a religious discussion in another thread and this is him lashing out

I was in his ass

 

[Broke Wave]

Meanwhile, in the Bible

1 Samuel 15:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

God said that?

"They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man........Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

The most merciful God said that?

"[From the captives of war] 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.......of which the tribute for the LORD was 32 [among them were virgin girls].

Deuteronomy 20:16
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

that's demonic friends! Is this a book of GOD or a book of Lucifer?

more

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow.

What the fukk

The Prophet DAVID

2 Samuel 11:2-4 "One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home

Really? That's wassup?

More "David" stories

"When King David was old and well advanced in years, he could not keep warm even when they put covers over him. So his servants said to him, 'Let us look for a young virgin to attend the king and take care of him. She can lie beside him so that our lord the king may keep warm.' Then they searched throughout Israel for a beautiful girl and found Abishag, a Shunammite, and brought her to the king. The girl was very beautiful; she took care of the king and waited on him, but the king had no intimate relations with her.

He out here pipin virgins outside his marriage? I'm not hatin but not very prophetic... forcing a poor virgin girl to fukk wit him.

Some incest

8 Come with me from Lebanon, my bride, come with me from Lebanon. Descend from the crest of Amana, from the top of Senir, the summit of Hermon, from the lions' dens and the mountain haunts of the leopards.
9 You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace.
10 How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!
11 Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride; milk and honey are under your tongue. The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon.
12 You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain.

My sister, my bride....

 

[FAH1223]

No disrespect, but you keep contradicting yourself. You keep saying that the Qu'Ran is the only text to be follow because it's supposedly the word of God, but you admit that you follow works written by men.

This is where a lot of Islamic credibility on this issue falls apart:

If the hadith shines good light on your religion it is "authentic". That's very convenient, wouldn't you say?

It's not contradictory at all in my view.

The Quran is the word of God. The Hadith help shine light on some of the concepts. There's also thousands of unauthentic stuff.

There's a science to it. The chains of narrations in the traditions.

 

[Chris.B]

blah blah blah

Stick to topic you troll.

There is another thread for Bible stories..This is dedicated to the Qur'an and the Haddith.

You have a problem? Use the other thread.

 

[Chris.B]

lil girl disliked the pedophile.

Aisha's dislike for Muhammad

Narrated 'Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away for I disliked to face him."
Sahih Bukhari 1:9:490

 

[Constantine]

I understand the context of the times, but this man supposedly had some link to God. You don't think God could have explained human anatomy and sexual development to his Prophet? He couldn't explain to his Prophet that in the future, sciences would discover the physical and mental issues concerning taking child brides and having sex with pre-pubescent girls?

I mean, we already had one Muslim here say that the Qu'Ran contains "mathematical sophistication and scientific miracles" but I'm supposed to believe God wouldn't take time to address something like this?

You can only give him a pass if you believe him to be a man like every other.

Adherence to any belief system, whether its religion, economic, agnoticism, or atheism requires faith in the belief system, and to a certain extent suspension of reality. I think if I'm reading your post your questioning what extent prophets are fallible. This is where the suspension of reality comes into effect. In the Catholic bible, or the Apochrypha, there's storeis of Daniel talking to a dragon. God supposedely told Abraham to kill his child, and he was more that ready to do so. If someone today killed their child because they told the prosecutor god told them to do so, we'd think they were crazy. Solomon, or his son i believe fell in love with a woman, and had her husband sent to the front lines of a war so he could be killed, and have her for his self. Catholics argue about if the Pope is infailable or not. To answer your question, I believe everyone is failable. I admit if god told a grown man that he could marry a child is disconcerting. Its one of the biggest criticisms of Islam. Which is why I decided to do some elementary research, and it turns out the average age of consent just 130 years ago was around 10 years old. Its easy to just stop there and argue cultural relativism for the age of consent. Now the claim that Aisha was pre-pubescent when she married is dodgy, and speculative. There are some people who argue she was 9, and others argue she was 12-18. I would also like to point out that Aisha was engaged to a man named Jubayr ibn Mut'im before she married Muhammad, which would suggest she was post pubescent. Part of the problem with the Hadiths is that many of them are apocryphal. You sort of have to take them as such, and use the stories, or parables as lessons on how to conduct yourself. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so you should do some research on the topic and make up your own opinion.
<center>At what age did Aisha marry the Prophet? (1) <br><i>by</i><br> DR. RE
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

 

[Broke Wave]

Stick to topic you troll.

There is another thread for Bible stories..This is dedicated to the Qur'an and the Haddith.

You have a problem? Use the other thread.

You know what, I've probably wasted 50 posts arguing with you, and we're both going to get nowhere. I have a different religion than you, but I respect your religion and beliefs. I don't think you, the man behind "Chris B." are a bad person, you may say somethings that I don't agree with about Islam and black women, but that shouldn't stop us or anyone from having a reasonable dialogue. I am finished with this strenuous arguing back and forth, and I hope we can one day come to a fair disagreement, which is amicable to both parties. In my discussion, instead of trying to genuinely show you my point of view, I changed my tone and tried to "win" an argument, which is not respectful, and for that I apologize. However the entire tone and content of this thread seeks to in my view spread out of context and incorrect characterizations about Islam, and that is disrespectful. I don't think you would have made this thread if I hadn't argued with you, so if anything, this offensive thread is my fault.

Lets start anew, and maybe we can learn from each other, friend.