Software Development and Programming Careers (Official Discussion Thread)

[Matt504]

It's been a while since I worked on a meaningful side project. I shelved my C program in favor of a command line Java program. The idea is for it to run like you'd run javac or similar commands: app [-flag] [options]. In addition I'm doing it outside of an IDE. I'm making use of Maven as a build tool and jumping between VS Code and Atom for editors. I'll probably settle on VS Code because it's a more familiar feeling for me, but I like to dabble with other tools from time to time.

So far I've had to learn about:
Maven from the command line
Java and javac and their flags
Makefiles (I initially tried to use a makefile for a one-stop-shop solution to building and running, but quickly found out it's not suitable for a Java project with nested directories)
TDD. I'm trying to do it legitimately this time rather than getting bored writing tests and just writing code instead.
Java.util.UUID class. If only I had known about it a few years ago
Java.util.Properties class. I'm about to extend it and add a few enums and constants so later use is streamlined. Something else I wish I would have known about. I actually might do some further functionality to make it work with JSON rather than XML, but we'll see.

When it's all said and done I might see about getting it released to a Linux repository so it can be downloaded like a legit package.

It's about all I can do to make up for being passed over on some bullshyt . Portfolio build and add skills.

TDD is more valuable than I can even articulate in a single post right now, shyt just goes so wonderfully when you have a well thought out plan and test while building.

If it's not a part of your company's culture, you won't have time to do it, especially if you're working on client projects as it won't be factored into the estimate which will lead you to abandon TDD.

 

[Obreh Winfrey]

00000000000000000000000000000812

Honestly man, you'll probably have to apply to 20 or 30 jobs if not more before one will fall through and it could take months. Don't get discouraged, but I'm just telling you what the reality is. All of this everyone who goes to a coding bootcamp for 3 months or is a computer science graduate is coming out with superphat salaries on day 1 is over. You'll have to take the shotgun approach and apply nonstop and make yourself available on linkedin until something falls through. Keep it up bruh.

At this point I've got to be over 250 applications, at least, since the beginning of June. I've had 3 bites and no luck from any of them. I honestly question what they're looking for in developers because I apparently don't have it. For someone in my position, I think I'm bringing a pretty solid bag of skills to not have any industry experience. I know it's a grind, but damn.

 

[kevm3]

00000000000000000000000000000812

At this point I've got to be over 250 applications, at least, since the beginning of June. I've had 3 bites and no luck from any of them. I honestly question what they're looking for in developers because I apparently don't have it. For someone in my position, I think I'm bringing a pretty solid bag of skills to not have any industry experience. I know it's a grind, but damn.

Exactly bro. I had a feeling that things devolve into this. There was a short period of time when there were less programmers than demand, companies had to pay high salaries. There are now a lot more programmers on the market, so it's a lot harder to get in the door. Honestly man, try to get your foot in the door with web development first and foremost since it will be easier to show your projects. I'd put C and the such on the backburner for a bit and focus on HTML, CSS and JS. Keep it up bro, you'll get in the door.

 

[Matt504]

I'd put C and the such on the backburner for a bit and focus on HTML, CSS and JS. Keep it up bro, you'll get in the door.

excellent advice. I was able to get in via this path.

 

[Obreh Winfrey]

00000000000000000000000000000812

Exactly bro. I had a feeling that things devolve into this. There was a short period of time when there were less programmers than demand, companies had to pay high salaries. There are now a lot more programmers on the market, so it's a lot harder to get in the door. Honestly man, try to get your foot in the door with web development first and foremost since it will be easier to show your projects. I'd put C and the such on the backburner for a bit and focus on HTML, CSS and JS. Keep it up bro, you'll get in the door.

Web dev isn't my cup of tea lol. The only time I enjoy it is when I'm using Java Spring or .NET MVC. I have a couple of projects I could revisit and also take a look at deploying to Azure or AWS though.

 

[buzzkill]

getting started in my web dev path. been doing colt steele's bootcamp right now plus javascript understanding the weird parts. Almost 2 months in and I learned a lot of frontend now im learning node.js, apis and all that other backend stuff..wondering if im at a good pace and where I should go next after this course?

 

[kevm3]

Web dev isn't my cup of tea lol. The only time I enjoy it is when I'm using Java Spring or .NET MVC. I have a couple of projects I could revisit and also take a look at deploying to Azure or AWS though.

Yeah I feel you on that. Jobs with C and C++ will usually require a ton of experience, so I say just get your foot in the door, and then try to eventually transition to the areas you like. Get in the door with web dev, work on side projects that involve whatever you want to eventually do and once you have a portfolio developed with that, make that shift. Most things are going mobile now so you probably will have to touch some form of html/css/js anyways unless you end up doing app development, and still then, unless you are working making android or iphone apps only, you will still have to touch html/css/js because you can actually deploy to both using something like cordova/phonegap.

 

[selam]

Don't be a code monkey... The large companies have been working on creating the saturated market for years with the "everybody code" movement. They now have high school grads that have been "coding" for years.

Computer Science is about solving tough problems. It's really not about computers at all, and it's not really a science. It's more akin to engineering and the computer is the tool for managing complexity. The less you focus on the computer part of the equation, the better programmer you will become.

Solving tough problems is tough, and the skills required will NEVER be outdated. Programming languages and coding styles become obsolete every few years.

I say all of this as im learning the JavaScript stack, so I understand the need for learning modern technologies...but my advice to you all and myself is to not get caught up in it.

 

[kevm3]

Don't be a code monkey... The large companies have been working on creating the saturated market for years with the "everybody code" movement. They now have high school grads that have been "coding" for years.

Computer Science is about solving tough problems. It's really not about computers at all, and it's not really a science. It's more akin to engineering and the computer is the tool for managing complexity. The less you focus on the computer part of the equation, the better programmer you will become.

Solving tough problems is tough, and the skills required will NEVER be outdated. Programming languages and coding styles become obsolete every few years.

I say all of this as im learning the JavaScript stack, so I understand the need for learning modern technologies...but my advice to you all and myself is to not get caught up in it.

Yep, the everybody code movement was never about saving the future of the country or whatever nonsense they were promoting. It was about getting cheap labor. Bootcamps have solved that problem and any industry where you can go to some camp/school for 3 months and get a ton of money isn't sustainable because everyone is going to rush towards those salaries. It pays to have gotten in early.

Like you said, a strong foundation in computer science and I would go to say mathematics is what will distinguish you in the marketplace. That's stuff that anybody off the street can't go in and pick up in 3 months.

I would also say the real advantage of coding is the entrepreneurial value it provides. Once you get skilled, you can pretty much make whatever you want.

Honestly, I'd tell people if they don't have a passion for this, then potentially look elsewhere. The days of guys coming out of camp and easily making insane money is over. The market has matured, and there is still a lot of money to be had, but it's for guys with 5 years of experience and a ton of skills.

 

[HearNoEvil]

In the Q & A period after a recent talk, someone asked what made startups fail. After standing there gaping for a few seconds I realized this was kind of a trick question. It's equivalent to asking how to make a startup succeed—if you avoid every cause of failure, you succeed—and that's too big a question to answer on the fly.

Afterwards I realized it could be helpful to look at the problem from this direction. If you have a list of all the things you shouldn't do, you can turn that into a recipe for succeeding just by negating. And this form of list may be more useful in practice. It's easier to catch yourself doing something you shouldn't than always to remember to do something you should. [1]

In a sense there's just one mistake that kills startups: not making something users want. If you make something users want, you'll probably be fine, whatever else you do or don't do. And if you don't make something users want, then you're dead, whatever else you do or don't do. So really this is a list of 18 things that cause startups not to make something users want. Nearly all failure funnels through that.

The 18 Mistakes That Kill Startups

^Great investor, even better writer.

Essays

 

[buzzkill]

Yep, the everybody code movement was never about saving the future of the country or whatever nonsense they were promoting. It was about getting cheap labor. Bootcamps have solved that problem and any industry where you can go to some camp/school for 3 months and get a ton of money isn't sustainable because everyone is going to rush towards those salaries. It pays to have gotten in early.

Like you said, a strong foundation in computer science and I would go to say mathematics is what will distinguish you in the marketplace. That's stuff that anybody off the street can't go in and pick up in 3 months.

I would also say the real advantage of coding is the entrepreneurial value it provides. Once you get skilled, you can pretty much make whatever you want.

Honestly, I'd tell people if they don't have a passion for this, then potentially look elsewhere. The days of guys coming out of camp and easily making insane money is over. The market has matured, and there is still a lot of money to be had, but it's for guys with 5 years of experience and a ton of skills.

I feel you bro thanks. i would say im fairly passionate about this. I spend hrs everyday working through courses on udemy and reading. I am a creative person and this field is creative enough for me to stay interested. I'm not totally in it for the money although that is a bonus.

Im really interested in being able to build things from scratch and see my ideas or others ideas come to life. Its the same feeling i get when making music or drawing something dope. Plus ive always wanted to be an entrepreneur so the entrepreneurial value you were talking about is appealing also.

So your tip to me would be not only practice cpu science but also get good at math to get ahead?

 

[kevm3]

I feel you bro thanks. i would say im fairly passionate about this. I spend hrs everyday working through courses on udemy and reading. I am a creative person and this field is creative enough for me to stay interested. I'm not totally in it for the money although that is a bonus.

Im really interested in being able to build things from scratch and see my ideas or others ideas come to life. Its the same feeling i get when making music or drawing something dope. Plus ive always wanted to be an entrepreneur so the entrepreneurial value you were talking about is appealing also.

So your tip to me would be not only practice cpu science but also get good at math to get ahead?

If you have passion, then you can make it. Main thing about this industry is you will have to keep learning. Mathematics is a must learn, and when I get more free time, it's something I will dedicate a lot more time to as well. You can get by without math and having a strong computer science foundation, but you will be limiting your opportunities. You will also possibly face wage depression if you never advance your skills because these coding bootcamps can pump out graduates in 3 months. You want to have a skillset that can't be learned in such a short period of time and that people possibly shy away from.

 

[dontreadthis]

Most of my applications have going to same software company but through different recruiters, they hit you up saying you're good candidate and will keep in touch, but never get back to you

I know my area sucks for tech jobs, but it's gonna ruins my plan of paying off my student loans if I move, that's like 1000 thrown away




@dontreadthis did you ever get that C# position?

nah, dude conducting the interview was mad hostile. felt like I was on the first 48 . very stressful lol.

 

[TrebleMan]

All this talk about ground floor comp sci makes me want to register for classes, but in the meantime, anybody know some great courses on assembly and getting closer to the machine?

I know C/C++ are the layer on top of it and I have experience with the latter, but how deep does a comp sci curriculum go past those languages?

 

[Obreh Winfrey]

All this talk about ground floor comp sci makes me want to register for classes, but in the meantime, anybody know some great courses on assembly and getting closer to the machine?

I know C/C++ are the layer on top of it and I have experience with the latter, but how deep does a comp sci curriculum go past those languages?

Look into learning MIPS to ease into it, then look into other instruction sets afterwards since they can be more complex.