Socialism Vs. Capitalism

[Professor Emeritus]

No real world failures.

Only the machinery of imperialism and exploitation being utilized to destroy any attempts at liberation or socialism.

Every single socialist project, without a doubt, has been attacked, undermined, and suppressed from the outside.

Meanwhile, Sankara's Burkina Faso alone produced greater results than any "capitalist" attempt in that same time period

I'm not just talking about the popularity of socialism or communism - I'm talking about the actual assassination of socialist and communist leaders internationally, the U.S./French/UK/German/Belgian/Spanish-backed coups and overthrows of even vaguely Left-leaning leaders, the color revolutions, the civil wars started by Western government-backed forces, the military invasions, the the "police actions," the non-controversial false flag operations, the spying, trade embargoes, bombings, torturing, ethnic cleansings, mass-incarceration, etc.

Western governments have committed every conceivable international crime and broken every international rule except detonating nuclear weapons on foreign soil post-1946 to stop socialist and communist projects from succeeding.

You think the Black Panther Party's biggest problem was "natural order" and not the U.S. government's literal war on teenagers and young adults?

As noted above, what you mean by outside interference is:

• Ethnic cleansing;
• Assassination of governmental leaders;
• Invasions by multiple militaries;
• Carpet bombing of civilian areas;
• Trade embargoes to stop the flow of food, water and medicine into countries;
• False flag operations to target growing populist socialist/communist groups;
• The targetted flow of billions of dollars to anti-communist groups;
• Election interference on a mass scale;
• And that's just a handful of things done that has been openly covered in media

It's disingenuous as hell that they ignore this and then pretend there's been some sort of objective demonstration. There is no single system in history that has been as explicitly and consistently sabotaged from the outside as Socialism has.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Pointless debate period.
Capitalism won long ago...

Empire-building and colonialism won.

And we're seeing that unravel now.

Whatever makes you comfortable
The second sentence i believe grossly underestimates the resiliency of the systems currently in place.

@DEAD7, I think you severely underestimate how tremendously capitalism has led to the collapse of environmental systems worldwide, and what an existential threat that currently proposes. Or the growing concentration of wealth and power in a more and more powerful elite. The miniscule time frames at which you wish to declare "capitalism works" aren't viable.

 

[DEAD7]

You could replace socialism with "Black self-determination" and all of your arguments would be just as accurate.

I disagree... for this to be true, socialist efforts would have to have been subject to unique challenges not faced by the systems that have managed to stay afloat.
...none of the reason below appear to be unique to socialist efforts... but its socialist efforts that have folded to the fukkery.

As noted above, what you mean by outside interference is:

• Ethnic cleansing;
• Assassination of governmental leaders;
• Invasions by multiple militaries;
• Carpet bombing of civilian areas;
• Trade embargoes to stop the flow of food, water and medicine into countries;
• False flag operations to target growing populist socialist/communist groups;
• The targetted flow of billions of dollars to anti-communist groups;
• Election interference on a mass scale;
• And that's just a handful of things done that has been openly covered in media

 

[DEAD7]

@DEAD7, I think you severely underestimate how tremendously capitalism has led to the collapse of environmental systems worldwide, and what an existential threat that currently proposes. Or the growing concentration of wealth and power in a more and more powerful elite. The miniscule time frames at which you wish to declare "capitalism works" aren't viable.

I dont disagree with any of your critiques, i just believe capitalism has proven itself the system most compatible with human nature.
The game is over, Capitalism won.

Now we gotta make it work for as many people as possible.

 

[DEAD7]

Every system is subject to sabotage

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I disagree... for this to be true, socialist efforts would have to have been subject to unique challenges not faced by the systems that have managed to stay afloat.
...none of the reason below appear to be unique to socialist efforts... but its socialist efforts that have folded to the fukkery.

Every single system that refused to obey the commands of the world's dominant wealth controllers has been sabotaged. Socialism in not unique in that sense. The only options have been to either submit to their system (virtually everyone), or to exert totalitarian control over a massive enough resource base to retain a degree of independence (Soviets, Chinese, and their client states). What other options are there? Who else has been allowed to experiment with alternatives without being attacked on all fronts?

I dont disagree with any of your critiques, i just believe capitalism has proven itself the system most compatible with human nature.
The game is over, Capitalism won.

You think on far too small a timeline. For hundreds of years you could have claimed that democracy lost. It still might lose. Capitalism is younger than democracy and no less likely to fail just as democracy once did and may again.

 

[Pressure]

I dont disagree with any of your critiques, i just believe capitalism has proven itself the system most compatible with human nature.
The game is over, Capitalism won.

Now we gotta make it work for as many people as possible.

Every system is subject to sabotage

You’re right. Socialism has to show is can succeed in a world with competing systems and then deliver its intended goals.

We are all very aware of the ills of capitalism, but much of its critique is attacking something it hasn’t claimed to be — egalitarian.

Governments failing to minimize harm doesn’t go away just by merely moving on from capitalism. Largely because it doesn’t address the the human condition.