So THIS is the trailer trolling muslims that got the American killed

[wize fool]

I don't see what the rulings of Islam have to do with me, if they weren't followed that is an issue that Muslims should discuss among themselves

and a discussion of African slavery is a discussion among africans

But for the record let it be shown that you were unable to refute the assertion that the British empire forced Muslims to end slavery

You never adequately proved it. And you display ignorance by not knowing the difference between a rule and a human being.

 

[theworldismine13]

According to the Brits.

no according to history, are you disputing the source that I used?

 

[The Real]

"Your book asks slaves to be good slaves"? Hmmm. I'm not sure where you are getting this stuff from.

You do understand that slavery existed before Islam correct? And once Islam came it moderated and eventually helped to abolish it. Freeing slaves is called a virtuous act throughout "my book".

Furthermore, as I also tried to explain, but based on your other responses, I doubt you saw, slavery was not what you have been trained to think about slavery. We're not talking about chattel slavery. Slavery in Islam was a lot like capitalism today. The only difference is you don't consider yourself a slave.

I can't believe this is a former military man I am teaching this to. Were you "free" in the marines? Are you "free" at your current job? Most of us work for someone else and they give us a percentage of what we make for them. Calling it a job sounds nice, but let's be honest, most of us are slaves in this economy.

This is all avoiding an important point. Yes, Islam may have encouraged a more moderate and "humane" form of slavery, and yes, Islam may have encouraged the freeing of slaves, and those no doubt had positive effects, but at the end of the day, the Quran still accepts slavery as a valid institution, and that is still a negative thing. The Quran says it is allowed for a man to force a female slave to be his concubine (sex slave,) for example.

Can an employer legally force his employee to become his sex slave in our capitalist society? Does a man need his employer's permission to get married, as a slave needs his master's permission to get married in the Quran? When a man has a child here, does that child automatically belong to his employer as a slave's child belongs to the slave's master in the Quran? When a man is killed by his employer here, does the employer get a reduced sentence because the dead man was a "slave" the way a slavemaster gets a reduced punishment for killing a slave in the Quran? Is an employee here not permitted to possess or inherit property, or conduct independent business, because they are employed, the way a slave is prohibited from those things in the Quran? Can an employee here be sold by his employer to another employer with no say in the matter, as is the case for a slave in the Quran?

 

[Bud Bundy]

Defending slavery or condemning capitalism?

so your equating making someone submissive to you and owning there life with an economic system?

 

[Type Username Here]

so your equating making someone submissive to you and owning there life with an economic system?

He's also trying to equate someone knowingly signing a contract to be in the military with slavery.


I mean you can't make it up.

Dude is in here defending owning slaves.

 

[wize fool]

I signed a contract. I, under my own authority, sought to seek employment and service in the military, which ended as soon as the contract I signed ended.

That is much different than the Islamic Slavery that you are romanticizing over.

You have spent the last 2 pages making this argument:

"Well, you know slavery has always existed, but Islamic came around and made it nicer". This ignores the point that people were still enslaved and had no freedom.

Also, slavery STILL exists in modern Islamic countries.

This is my point. It isn't much different. Islamic slavery is far closer to your enlistment than to the chattel slavery you're thinking of. Did you have freedom in the military? Could you walk off base if you pleased? Could you go to bed when you pleased?

And you, like your buddy, don't seem to know the difference between rules and people. If the speed limit is 65 and I go 80, that doesn't change the speed limit.

 

[wize fool]

so your equating making someone submissive to you and owning there life with an economic system?

Go back and read my post that explained slavery in Islam. Then take a look at our current economic system. Most of us are submissive and corporate owned. We just don't like to think of it in that manner.

 

[Type Username Here]

This is my point. It isn't much different. Islamic slavery is far closer to your enlistment than to the chattel slavery you're thinking of. Did you have freedom in the military? Could you walk off base if you pleased? Could you go to bed when you pleased?

And you, like your buddy, don't seem to know the difference between rules and people. If the speed limit is 65 and I go 80, that doesn't change the speed limit.

Did I voluntarily sign up for the military, yes or no?

 

[Bud Bundy]

Go back and read my post that explained slavery in Islam. Then take a look at our current economic system. Most of us are submissive and corporate owned. We just don't like to think of it in that manner.

you said slavery is not that bad and is like capitalism. Now it is not the same if i choose i don't have to play in the corporate world. Slaves in Islam had such a choice besides death if they went aginast there master?

 

[wize fool]

This is all avoiding an important point. Yes, Islam may have encouraged a more moderate and "humane" form of slavery, and yes, Islam may have encouraged the freeing of slaves, and those no doubt had positive effects, but at the end of the day, the Quran still accepts slavery as a valid institution, and that is still a negative thing. The Quran says it is allowed for a man to force a female slave to be his concubine (sex slave,) for example. Can an employer legally force his employee to become his sex slave in our capitalist society? Does a man need his employer's permission to get married, as a slave needs his master's permission to get married in the Quran? When a man has a child here, does that child automatically belong to his employer as a slave's child belongs to the slave's master in the Quran?

Again, this sounds great. But unfortunately it isn't 100% accurate. Islam allowed enslavement under 2 conditions: prisoners of war and birth. So your illusions of an active slave trade is just that, an illusion.

While slavery was obviously not exactly like capitalism (or I guess it would have been called capitalism), there are still plenty of similarities. It's not me who is in denial about slavery, but rather you who is denial about capitalism.

 

[wize fool]

you said slavery is not that bad and is like capitalism. Now it is not the same if i choose i don't have to play in the corporate world. Slaves in Islam had such a choice besides death if they went aginast there master?

No I didn't say "slavery is not that bad and is like capitalism". If anything, I'm saying capitalism is bad like slavery.

 

[wize fool]

Did I voluntarily sign up for the military, yes or no?

You signed your life away. I do pity that, indeed. But is everyone in the military a volunteer? Are you saying that the US government can't force anyone to join the military?

Furthermore, as previously mentioned, the only 2 conditions in which one could be enslaved was POWs and birth. So essentially, they signed up for military service just like you.

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

so your equating making someone submissive to you and owning there life with an economic system?

ask those striking S.African miners getting gunned down in the street about that economic system.

capitalism = rent a slave.

at least as property, slave owners have an incentive to provide slaves with basic health care, food and housing.

 

[Type Username Here]

You signed your life away. I do pity that, indeed. But is everyone in the military a volunteer? Are you saying that the US government can't force anyone to join the military?

Furthermore, as previously mentioned, the only 2 conditions in which one could be enslaved was POWs and birth. So essentially, they signed up for military service just like you.

Capturing a Prisoner of War or Being born a slave is equivalent to signing a contract voluntarily?

 

[The Real]

Again, this sounds great. But unfortunately it isn't 100% accurate. Islam allowed enslavement under 2 conditions: prisoners of war and birth. So your illusions of an active slave trade is just that, an illusion.

While slavery was obviously not exactly like capitalism (or I guess it would have been called capitalism), there are still plenty of similarities. It's not me who is in denial about slavery, but rather you who is denial about capitalism.

Once again, you are avoiding my point. I'm not defending capitalism, and I never said Islam had an "active" slade trade, but the fact remains that, as historians have shown, the Islamic world maintained slave populations from its inception through to modern times.

I'll list the same questions individually, and you can tell me whether or not these are true in the West, and maybe also whether you think it is ok for a society to do these things:

Can an employer legally force his employee to become his sex slave in our capitalist society?

Does a man need his employer's permission to get married, as a slave needs his master's permission to get married in the Quran?

When a man has a child here, does that child automatically belong to his employer as a slave's child belongs to the slave's master in the Quran?

When a man is killed by his employer here, does the employer get a reduced sentence because the dead man was a "slave" the way a slavemaster gets a reduced punishment for killing a slave in the Quran?

Is an employee here not permitted to possess or inherit property, or conduct independent business, because they are employed, the way a slave is prohibited from those things in the Quran?

Can an employee here be sold by his employer to another employer with no say in the matter, as is the case for a slave in the Quran?