So the Black Church Has Made 420 BILLION dollars in the past 30 years

joeychizzle

光復香港,時代革命
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
12,078
Reputation
4,150
Daps
32,531
Reppin
852
Grow up dude.. I can understand the hate..but clearly u wasnt raised right..
I was raised a devout Christian. Couldn't wait to go to Sunday school. But as I grew older.. I noticed the inconsistencies.. the contradictions.. the flaws.. the whole system set up to extract money while giving nothing in return.. the message that you're not good enough and have somehow sinned and should repent.. that reinforcement of self-hate.. that self imposed moral superiority over others. I can't have respect for a blatantly capitalist organization that operates under the guise of doing good.
 

SirReginald

The African Diaspora Will Be "ONE" (#PanAfricana)
Supporter
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
51,731
Reputation
201
Daps
79,380
Reppin
Pan Africanism
Breh it's crazy. My grandma used to drag me to her prosperity church and they'd shyt on poor people all the time. Saying that being poor meant you weren't right with God. So the church never did any community outreach or food banks. shyt was scusting...
Yeah man I just believe in God, but I don't have to believe in Christianity. I would like to get closer to God though. Maybe that will come when I get older hopefully. Also, those prosperity churches isn't anything, but scam churches.
 

rapbeats

Superstar
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
9,363
Reputation
1,890
Daps
12,850
Reppin
NULL
I was raised a devout Christian. Couldn't wait to go to Sunday school. But as I grew older.. I noticed the inconsistencies.. the contradictions.. the flaws.. the whole system set up to extract money while giving nothing in return.. the message that you're not good enough and have somehow sinned and should repent.. that reinforcement of self-hate.. that self imposed moral superiority over others. I can't have respect for a blatantly capitalist organization that operates under the guise of doing good.
wait wait wait. how do you know they gave nothing in return?

no one has explained this yet. see its one thing to say something its another to prove it. prove what you say is true and i'll believe it. cause we all know their are shady people in all walks of life. but dont just say stuff to jump in on a thread and not have any proof.

You want to see a church do something for the black community? fine here it is.

"A mega church pastor was not always a mega church pastor. But possibly the reason that he became so is because he effectively utilized all resources available to further his community and people and thus, people were drawn to his ministry and vision," said Blake.

2012-09-03-bishopblakesaveafricakids.jpg
West Angeles has developed over 400 units of housing and commercial property in the inner city of Los Angeles. It has initiated and implemented scores of civic, social, financial and educational programs that have assisted thousands of congregants and Los Angeles County residents. Bishop Blake founded an international outreach ministry called Save Africa's Children, wherein, he is the Chief Executive Officer. Save Africa's Children, with assistance from West Angeles, has provided financial resources, food and housing to over 200,000 children in 400 foster care programs in Africa and Haiti. "The primary benefit of a mega church is that is has resources to initiate programs that are conceived for the work for the advancement of the church."


Mega pastors have become easy targets for opponents who question their financial worth in leading and managing multimillion dollar corporations, albeit, a church. Some Super Mega pastors have personal annual incomes that exceed a million dollars ($1,000,000). Bishop Blake's salary is approximated at $227,750, which is below his corporate counterparts. As the leader of West Angeles, Presiding Bishop of COGIC and CEO of Save Africas Children, Blake works over 80 hours most weeks, including preaching two to three services every Sunday. He receives no compensation for his work with Save Africa's Children.

2012-09-03-blakeladymaesmall.jpg
Blake explained that for many years he was grossly underpaid, nevertheless, he and "Lady Mae" worked tirelessly because of their love for God, the church and the community. "More than once I've contributed an entire salary back to the church. As one expected to lead in the giving, whatever the pastor receives, sometimes, a greater portion of it goes back into the church" he declared. In fact, it was only after a bank'stipulation that required Blake to remain as pastor of West Angles during the life of the loan, did Blake receive a significant raise. A CPA firm was retained to valuate an equitable compensation package for an executive with Blake attributes and responsibilities. Consequently, in 2001, Blake accepted a package that was still 1/3 less than was recommended. According to his son, Elder Charles Blake Jr., most years, despite the enormous wealth and generous spirit of some of the members, Bishop Blake is the leading financial contributor to West Angeles. "In order to be credible, the pastor needs to lead the congregation in contributing and thus, must himself be on the frontline and cutting edge in giving."



^^PROOF that all black churches aint out to get your money for their own profit. I've seen this first hand. This church has a school right across the street from the church. not some little itty bitty school either.

F.A.M.E. another church that has had some shady pastors come thru in L.A. who did get caught stealing money. Even that church has done a lot for the black community. I would know. i lived there. i knew people who used their services. once i went down there for a summer job. they had the hook up for summer youth jobs that were real jobs working all over the city. one was a hookup with disneyland. This same church was well known for sending tons of black kids to college especially black colleges. a relative of mine that went to boise state only got in there because of his affiliation with a college program thru this same church. there have been a good 100 or so kids tha thave gone thru that same program at boise st that have all come from that church.

i will be the firs to admit. when you pay tithes, offerings you should also pay attention to where the money is going. thats on YOU. your church should have business meetings regularly. and they should invite the members. if they do not do this, advise the pastor that this should be done and start quoting scriptures about how the preacher(s) should be above reproach. If your pastor(s) say no to this. GO find another church home, or if push comes to shove. get your church in with you and your family and friends at home. it says as when there is 2 or more present...

all church folks aint evil, money grabbers. and all church folks aint saved and sanctified and do gooders.
 

#SOG_soldier

New York knicks and phoenix suns stan
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
22,501
Reputation
2,849
Daps
49,067
Reppin
Chicago, IL
I know the pastor for my church growing up didn't just show up to preach sundays. A real pastor is a full time job
- Doing funerals
- weddings
- Visiting the sick and shut in
- Church retreats, meetings, and workshops
That's Monday through Saturday, and also having time to research and craft their sermon for sundays. just my 2 cents. And I'm sure there are other things that I haven't mentioned. Never been a fan of mega churches, they all seemed shady to me. But the smaller churches, at least the ones i went to, did a lot for the surrounding community. I know a lot on here aren't a fan of Christianity, but to paint all preachers as crooks is wrong. I know some personally that are good upstanding men, whether they are in the pulpit or just everyday living
that the thing about religion. If you choose to believe in GOD like I do, i think that its really just about how you decide to use religion.


ANYTHING in the wrong hands is a fukking weapon. But there a millions of examples of religous leaders who are stand up people and do a ton for the community.
 

Kenny West

Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
25,193
Reputation
6,128
Daps
92,878
Reppin
NULL
I was raised a devout Christian. Couldn't wait to go to Sunday school. But as I grew older.. I noticed the inconsistencies.. the contradictions.. the flaws.. the whole system set up to extract money while giving nothing in return.. the message that you're not good enough and have somehow sinned and should repent.. that reinforcement of self-hate.. that self imposed moral superiority over others. I can't have respect for a blatantly capitalist organization that operates under the guise of doing good.

religion/Christianity isn't a capitalist organization

but making it run as such is capitalism. same thing with prison, college etc.

blame your country not the faith
 

Labadi_Mantse

All Star
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
2,015
Reputation
320
Daps
6,115
that the thing about religion. If you choose to believe in GOD like I do, i think that its really just about how you decide to use religion.


ANYTHING in the wrong hands is a fukking weapon. But there a millions of examples of religous leaders who are stand up people and do a ton for the community.

I completely understand the origins of you and others arguments about not all pastors being crooks etc. I'm sure there is a lot of truth to it. However, it fails to address the pervasiveness and influence of the church on a macro level. People can minimize this figure by talking about overhead, gross figures, their personal experiences, labeling churches as 'black businesses', a few circumstances where a pastor isn't making much money- whatever-- it does not negate the sobering reality of this article-- 350 plus billion in tax free donations in 30 years. Black people have seen little to no economic mobility since the timeline introduced by this article. In terms of household incomes we are still severely lacking, unemployment is high, and investments/savings for most are non existent. Yet, we are reading an article chronicling absolutely impractical, and frankly irresponsible, expenditures toward an institution that has no tangible record of economically bettering the black community. It is incumbent upon us to make the responsible choices needed to better our communities. this shyt tears me up to read about the amount of money given to churches while OUR universities, hbcus, and neighborhood schools fail to secure funding and thus fail in preparing the next generation. Effectively, negating any possibility of social mobility and dooming them to the same fate of pay check to pay check drone living. Meanwhile, soo yung and dervish patel's people are stacking every dollar with generational wealth as their preiminent goal, part of the reason they have passed whites as the highest per capita income households. This money could've been invested into education, black owned trade schools, after work investment and money management classes, anything that would've provided a tangible return rather than the billions given away with the state of our communities no different.
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

Theological Noncognitivist Since Birth
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
45,063
Reputation
8,154
Daps
122,283
Reppin
The Wrong Side of the Tracks
Labadi_Mantse said:
I completely understand the origins of you and others arguments about not all pastors being crooks etc. I'm sure there is a lot of truth to it. However, it fails to address the pervasiveness and influence of the church on a macro level. People can minimize this figure by talking about overhead, gross figures, their personal experiences, labeling churches as 'black businesses', a few circumstances where a pastor isn't making much money- whatever-- it does not negate the sobering reality of this article--

This, however, does......

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited said:
There are approximately 150,000 'Black' congregations in America. This is a conservative estimate so the math is not exactly accurate. Anyway, dividing $420 bn/congregation gives $2.8 mn per congregation over 30 years. $2.8 mn/congregation divided by 30 years = ~$94k/yr. Since they are non-profit they pay no income/property taxes, but are still responsible for utilities, maintenance costs, salaries, insurance, etc.

If a church is doing well, then they can expect to 'clear' about $15k - $30k./yr. Those funds typically go towards 'social services' such as: homeless shelters, food pantries, emergency assistance, scholarships, day care, after-school programs, drug/alcohol/marriage counseling, etc.

Sure, the 'megachurches' are probably :eat:very well, but the average church in your neighborhood is barely breaking even. Since the average church represents about 99% of ALL 'Black' churches in America, the outrage in this thread is unwarranted.


:snooze:

The 'reality' is that 'Black' churches aren't 'businesses', aren't robbing from the 'Black' community, and do the most FOR the 'Black' community for NO profit.​
 
Last edited:

Labadi_Mantse

All Star
Joined
Nov 19, 2014
Messages
2,015
Reputation
320
Daps
6,115
This, however, does......



The 'reality' is that 'Black' churches aren't 'businesses', aren't robbing from the 'Black' community, and do the most FOR the 'Black' community for NO profit.​


Excellent job of reading and responding to the post in its entirety. Your makeshift figures do not factor in several relevant details. Im curious why this article is all over the net but youre the only one who has arrived at said calculations. Lol... :duck:

What is this reality based on? Let me guess, your faith? The reality is the money people spend and have spent in the church can be used elsewhere for better purposes. The economic and social conditions of blacks have not improved much, if at all, in the timeline the article references. Meanwhile, asians have surpassed whites as the highest income households. You think their expenditures in an institution which provides little tangible return is as high as blacks? Why aren't we improving educational quality? There are a multitude of statistics to back up this point concerning economic progress in the last 30 years. Can you provide some as to the benefit of the church on a macro level in the same period?
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

Theological Noncognitivist Since Birth
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
45,063
Reputation
8,154
Daps
122,283
Reppin
The Wrong Side of the Tracks
Labadi_Mantse said:
Excellent job of reading and responding to the post in its entirety. Your makeshift figures do not factor in several relevant details. Im curious why this article is all over the net but youre the only one who has arrived at said calculations. Lol... :duck:

Because I actually looked them up. The 'Net is an immense repository of information.

The rest of your post was a meandering cavalcade of talking-points suffused with nonsense that are easily refuted by anyone bothering to do as I did.​

Labadi_Mantse said:
What is this reality based on?

Walking outside and working for a non-profit Community Help Organization for over a decade.​

Labadi_Mantse said:
Let me guess, your faith?


Labadi_Mantse said:
The reality is the money people spend and have spent in the church can be used elsewhere for better purposes.

'Tithes and offerings' are tax-deductible so this criticism is moot.
Labadi_Mantse said:
The economic and social conditions of blacks have not improved much, if at all, in the timeline the article references.

And that's the churches' fault? LOL.
Labadi_Mantse said:
Meanwhile, asians have surpassed whites as the highest income households.

Has nothing to do with the article.​

Labadi_Mantse said:
You think their expenditures in an institution which provides little tangible return is as high as blacks?

Also, has nothing to do with the article since the 'Black' churches' function is to provide community to 'Black' people. The 'return' is a more cohesive community.....or at least that's what it is in the vast majority of cases since it provides a more accessible network for 'Black' people to operate in.​

Labadi_Mantse said:
Why aren't we improving educational quality?

My cousin got a full scholarship to Rutgers. She's going for her Master's in Education. I'm a Certified Energy Audit instructor through the Building Performance Institute......

http://www.bpi.org/what.aspx

The certification is recognized across the entire nation, Canada, and parts of Europe. What are YOU doing?

:popcorn:

Labadi_Mantse said:
There are a multitude of statistics to back up this point concerning economic progress in the last 30 years. Can you provide some as to the benefit of the church on a macro level in the same period?

Considering 'Black' people were the target of redlining up until the 90's, are incarcerated at higher rates than any other ethnic group for similar crimes, and have been the object of institutional racism for well over 400 years, your 'stats' are not really indicative of anything other than the fact that 'Black' people have not been afforded the same opportunities to the same extent as other ethnicities in this country.

:snooze:
 
Last edited:

PhonZhi

Veteran
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
24,040
Reputation
7,640
Daps
99,109
Reppin
Atl, Ga by way of Alabama
I think about this alot myself. Maybe a "celeb/athlete turned revolutionary"? You know, someone that has a large influence and platform. Someone that can awaken us on a mass scale. We are extremely blind collectively.
we need leadership. im not talking about a celeb. im talking about a nikka that is willing to die for us and be the face of the movement. a one in a million type nikka. Revolutionaries arent going to be entertainers or politicians. :yeshrug:
 

MikelArteta

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
252,385
Reputation
31,852
Daps
771,694
Reppin
Top 4
my brother in law is a pastor
his church that i attend have 20-30 people on a given sunday

rent is 3,000 a month
he's lucky to get 400 a week from tithes/offerings
and he covers the rest of his own pocket (hes an accountant making 125k a year at a hospital)

a few weeks ago 100 sleeping bags were purchased and we dropped it off at salvation army, hes bought groceries for many church members who didn't have anything for the week etc. but you would see him in a nice suit and driving a benz and be up there raising your hand judging.

and the majority of churches are ilke this, pastor got a 9-5, digging in his own pocket to cover shortages.

even these big ol multi churches most have boards and the pastor may draw a salary.
Most of these pastors with money make the money from selling books/cds/and speaking arrangements.

joel osteen doesnt draw a salary but hes a new york times best seller for example

people just love to bash churches, but if there life was going to utter disarray they'd be at church for a warm meal or something
 

joeychizzle

光復香港,時代革命
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
12,078
Reputation
4,150
Daps
32,531
Reppin
852
religion/Christianity isn't a capitalist organization

but making it run as such is capitalism. same thing with prison, college etc.

blame your country not the faith
Whatever it was, it's been twisted to conform to and exploit a capitalist society.
 

joeychizzle

光復香港,時代革命
Joined
Apr 3, 2014
Messages
12,078
Reputation
4,150
Daps
32,531
Reppin
852
wait wait wait. how do you know they gave nothing in return?

no one has explained this yet. see its one thing to say something its another to prove it. prove what you say is true and i'll believe it. cause we all know their are shady people in all walks of life. but dont just say stuff to jump in on a thread and not have any proof.

You want to see a church do something for the black community? fine here it is.




Mega pastors have become easy targets for opponents who question their financial worth in leading and managing multimillion dollar corporations, albeit, a church. Some Super Mega pastors have personal annual incomes that exceed a million dollars ($1,000,000). Bishop Blake's salary is approximated at $227,750, which is below his corporate counterparts. As the leader of West Angeles, Presiding Bishop of COGIC and CEO of Save Africas Children, Blake works over 80 hours most weeks, including preaching two to three services every Sunday. He receives no compensation for his work with Save Africa's Children.

2012-09-03-blakeladymaesmall.jpg
Blake explained that for many years he was grossly underpaid, nevertheless, he and "Lady Mae" worked tirelessly because of their love for God, the church and the community. "More than once I've contributed an entire salary back to the church. As one expected to lead in the giving, whatever the pastor receives, sometimes, a greater portion of it goes back into the church" he declared. In fact, it was only after a bank'stipulation that required Blake to remain as pastor of West Angles during the life of the loan, did Blake receive a significant raise. A CPA firm was retained to valuate an equitable compensation package for an executive with Blake attributes and responsibilities. Consequently, in 2001, Blake accepted a package that was still 1/3 less than was recommended. According to his son, Elder Charles Blake Jr., most years, despite the enormous wealth and generous spirit of some of the members, Bishop Blake is the leading financial contributor to West Angeles. "In order to be credible, the pastor needs to lead the congregation in contributing and thus, must himself be on the frontline and cutting edge in giving."



^^PROOF that all black churches aint out to get your money for their own profit. I've seen this first hand. This church has a school right across the street from the church. not some little itty bitty school either.

F.A.M.E. another church that has had some shady pastors come thru in L.A. who did get caught stealing money. Even that church has done a lot for the black community. I would know. i lived there. i knew people who used their services. once i went down there for a summer job. they had the hook up for summer youth jobs that were real jobs working all over the city. one was a hookup with disneyland. This same church was well known for sending tons of black kids to college especially black colleges. a relative of mine that went to boise state only got in there because of his affiliation with a college program thru this same church. there have been a good 100 or so kids tha thave gone thru that same program at boise st that have all come from that church.

i will be the firs to admit. when you pay tithes, offerings you should also pay attention to where the money is going. thats on YOU. your church should have business meetings regularly. and they should invite the members. if they do not do this, advise the pastor that this should be done and start quoting scriptures about how the preacher(s) should be above reproach. If your pastor(s) say no to this. GO find another church home, or if push comes to shove. get your church in with you and your family and friends at home. it says as when there is 2 or more present...

all church folks aint evil, money grabbers. and all church folks aint saved and sanctified and do gooders.

I should've phrased my post a little more directly - it isn't churches that give nothing in return. It is their so called leader, god, that gives nothing in return. People can claim to be healed or saved by him, or that the church is doing god's work, but it's all people. When you're cured by doctors, it's doctors, not god. When you don't seek medical treatment, you die, like those white people in backwater places. When a church gives you food, it's from the money people give because they were told to give it, not because god magically provided you with food. The concept of a higher being is so easily broken and debunked.. why can't people just do good without the guise of a higher being?
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

The Coli Is Not For You
Supporter
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
46,178
Reputation
7,473
Daps
105,793
Reppin
The Opposite Of Elliott Wilson's Mohawk
$420B in 30 yrs

Thats $14B a year

Theres 38 million black people in the US

Thats $368 per person

Not a lot of money

Put that in context, our share of the US economy's GDP this year will be like $2 trillion. $14 billion out of that is a drop in the bucket. By comparison we will spend $500 billion on hair care this year.

Not making judgments at all, just want to put numbers in perspective. $420B over 30 years spread out among ~40 million people is not a lot of money.
 
Top